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Beano, hind leg disabled UD: 27/06

Liz47

Wise Old Thumper
Hello all,

Beano is 8 years old and has been having difficulty with her hind legs for a while now. Originally just from physical examination/observation she was diagnosed with arthritis so has been on metacam for several months now. Over the past month she has been getting notably worse and this week has deteriorated rather quite rapidly. She had an X ray done today and no signs of arthritis were observed, alongside nothing affecting the spine. The only thing that was noted was a huge loss of muscle mass which you can see and she is loosing weight. Based on this and examinations the vet thinks it is a neurological issue, she doesn't seem to be aware of her hind legs anymore and when her foot is knuckled over there is no reflex to bring it back nor does she react to anything involving her feet. :cry: So at the moment her right leg is almost completely being dragged and is often stretched out infront of her and she is very wobbly when trying to move (she only seems able to creep/walk) and sits with them at awkward angles. This also means she is toileting on herself so requires daily baths and is shaved regularly (despite this she also required stitches after her skin tore a few months ago :cry:) and she can't sit up to reach her ceacotrophs (sp?).

She is not normally a rabbit that will tolerate or enjoy being handled/human contact unless she comes up to you but obviously all this means she is having regular contact which she doesn't have the ability to struggle and get away from and it's so upsetting seeing her like this as it's nothing like what she used to be. She can't keep up with Jake meaning she gets knocked and they very rarely sit together/groom as he is too active. However, despite this she is still keen to eat everything offered and some days her movement is ok and seems to enjoy being out in the garden but then often will sit in the same spot looking miserable and some days won't move for hours (she has hay, water, vet bed all in easy reach throughout the room). She is on metacam, has a cream for her legs and is nearly finishing a 28 day panacur course in case of EC. Vet said further testing can be done (such as CT) but a neurological issue is very unlikely to improve, but a possibility of slowing/managing the symptoms. I'm not sure if I'm doing enough or if there's anymore I could ask the vet to do? I don't think Beano is the sort of rabbit to have good quality of life being disabled as she is now but when the vets mention euthanasia I just don't feel like I have done enough for her at the moment. She is my first rabbit who I got as a child and also my first pet who means a lot to me, I can't bear seeing her suffer but surely there is more that can be done.
 
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This reminds me of Rosie my nethie although she had brain tumour, but when she was 9 she lost all muscle in her back legs to, whenever she fell over she cried for me to pick her up, she had steroids every week for some months until she told me one night she was tired and had enough, I knew I had to help her and say goodbye 😢 hopefully beano will do ok for a long while yet if t her are more good days then bad we used to say with Rosie it was positive, sending vibes xxx
 
Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry you had to go through that with Rosie, it sounds as though she coped well with your help. I'm struggling to see Beano having any good days at the moment, we've not discussed steroids I will ask the vets xxx
 
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Hugs. My 7 year old lionhead cross, Flop developed arthritis in his back legs, although the right was worse. We gave him metcam twice a day which he tolerated and hubby built him a ramp to help get in and out of the shed. After a few months Hubby came in after giving them breakfast and told me that Flop couldn't move his back legs. I went to see him and he was happy to see me, but I he'd been unable to drink from the water bowl and took a large drink when I placed a shallow dish next to him. I bought him inside and sat him on the sofa on a mat. He was bright and alert and into everything, but couldn't really drag himself about. I phoned the vets and got an emergency appointment. I was so distressed in the waiting room that the receptionist put me in an empty consulting room to wait.
I knew in my heart that I couldn't meet his needs, being out at work all day, but as he was so bright and alert in himself I felt so guilty about that. The vet and I discussed it and agreed that helping him go was the best option. He went off to prepare things and I sat on the consulting room floor with Flop, willing him to hop. It was the kindest thing I could do for him, but it broke my heart.
Take advice from the vet, but only you know Beano and what her quality of life will be.
Sending hugs xxxx
 
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Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry you had to go through that with Rosie, it sounds as though she coped well with your help. I'm struggling to see Beano having any good days at the moment, we've not discussed steroids I will ask the vets xxx

I agree with Lisa in that there are some circumstances in which the use of a corticosteroid is justified. Their use always has to be done with careful weighing up of risks versus benefits as corticosteroids do have potential side effects, especially lowering the immune system, Liver damage and gastric ulceration. So your Vet will no doubt go through all this with you when you speak with him/her. I have had several Rabbits who were prescribed a corticosteroid as a 'last resort' in order to buy the Rabbit a little more good quality time. In most cases the treatment was beneficial even if it was not curative (all Rabbits had terminal conditions).

As Beano is not a 'hands on' type of Rabbit I doubt that either acupuncture or physiotherapy would be of any benefit as both would probably be too stressful for her.

Personally I cant see the point of a CT scan as I am not sure that it would result in any more treatment options. I am sorry that Beano is struggling and I hope that the Vet might agree to trying a Corticosteroid. Beano could not have Metacam at the same time though.

Finally you may find it helpful to have a read of these :

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-8/quality-of-life.html

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/quality-of-life.html
 
Hello all,

Beano is 8 years old and has been having difficulty with her hind legs for a while now. Originally just from physical examination/observation she was diagnosed with arthritis so has been on metacam for several months now. Over the past month she has been getting notably worse and this week has deteriorated rather quite rapidly. She had an X ray done today and no signs of arthritis were observed, alongside nothing affecting the spine. The only thing that was noted was a huge loss of muscle mass which you can see and she is loosing weight. Based on this and examinations the vet thinks it is a neurological issue, she doesn't seem to be aware of her hind legs anymore and when her foot is knuckled over there is no reflex to bring it back nor does she react to anything involving her feet. :cry: So at the moment her right leg is almost completely being dragged and is often stretched out infront of her and she is very wobbly when trying to move (she only seems able to creep/walk) and sits with them at awkward angles. This also means she is toileting on herself so requires daily baths and is shaved regularly (despite this she also required stitches after her skin tore a few months ago :cry:) and she can't sit up to reach her ceacotrophs (sp?).

She is not normally a rabbit that will tolerate or enjoy being handled/human contact unless she comes up to you but obviously all this means she is having regular contact which she doesn't have the ability to struggle and get away from and it's so upsetting seeing her like this as it's nothing like what she used to be. She can't keep up with Jake meaning she gets knocked and they very rarely sit together/groom as he is too active. However, despite this she is still keen to eat everything offered and some days her movement is ok and seems to enjoy being out in the garden but then often will sit in the same spot looking miserable and some days won't move for hours (she has hay, water, vet bed all in easy reach throughout the room). She is on metacam, has a cream for her legs and is nearly finishing a 28 day panacur course in case of EC. Vet said further testing can be done (such as CT) but a neurological issue is very unlikely to improve, but a possibility of slowing/managing the symptoms. I'm not sure if I'm doing enough or if there's anymore I could ask the vet to do? I don't think Beano is the sort of rabbit to have good quality of life being disabled as she is now but when the vets mention euthanasia I just don't feel like I have done enough for her at the moment. She is my first rabbit who I got as a child and also my first pet who means a lot to me, I can't bear seeing her suffer but surely there is more that can be done.


Oh Liz I am so sorry :cry:

I know how special Beano is to you and how difficult this is. Ifs she's lost muscle mass, could you ask your vet about anabolic steroids? Not the same as corticoteroids as you know, but I have found them very useful in building up muscle in weakened rabbits.

Has she had a blood test to check for kidney function? I find that wobbly rabbits can have a deterioration there (and liver) and perhaps it would be good to know .. You may have already done this.

Finally, there's a couple of links here, which I have found helpful


http://rabbit.org/end-of-life/


http://www.disabledrabbits.com/quality-of-life.html


http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?270142-Quality-of-Life

Thinking of you Liz, and lots of hugs xxx
 
Thank you all, and for the links. I'm sorry you've gone through similar with Flop, Glingle.

I will do a better reply once I'm home from work. Beano had her back end on its side completely this morning and was dragging badly. :cry: My partner has text now to say she is following Jake and seems to be keeping up and bright despite this. I will discuss both types of steroids to see if either would be an option, which I would like to try I think. CT was just offered to try offer an actual diagnosis, although vet did say it would be pricey and involve a GA and offer little to nothing in means of treatment. I just want to know why this has happened to her, but it would offer no benefit to Beano so I wont be having any other tests I don't think aside from bloods which haven't been done yet thank you for that suggestion xx
 
I don't have any specific advice, but wanted to say I'm sorry you are going through all this. I'm sending lots of vibes for her and hugs for you xx
 
Thank you.

Just a quick update, Beano has had a good few days. She seems to be moving around better and seems brighter in herself. A big concern for me at the moment is she can't eat her caecotrophs, and is getting messy with them. I check her as often as possibly and they just wipe away from her tail if I catch them 'fresh', but when I'm at work or sometimes first thing there is sometimes a larger mass of them and this requires a bum bath to get clean. She is indoors and I have a fly curtain on their window so I'm not too concerned about flystrike although do check her regularly for this. Is there a chance she could become ill through not eating her caecotrophs? I worry she won't be getting the right nutrients, she is skinny and it's a battle to keep weight on her as it is. Thank you for any further advice.
 
Thank you.

Just a quick update, Beano has had a good few days. She seems to be moving around better and seems brighter in herself. A big concern for me at the moment is she can't eat her caecotrophs, and is getting messy with them. I check her as often as possibly and they just wipe away from her tail if I catch them 'fresh', but when I'm at work or sometimes first thing there is sometimes a larger mass of them and this requires a bum bath to get clean. She is indoors and I have a fly curtain on their window so I'm not too concerned about flystrike although do check her regularly for this. Is there a chance she could become ill through not eating her caecotrophs? I worry she won't be getting the right nutrients, she is skinny and it's a battle to keep weight on her as it is. Thank you for any further advice.

You could put any formed cecotrophs within her reach she might eat them. If she continues to be unable/unwilling to eat them I'd have a word with your Vet as she may need some vitamin supplementation, (Vit B).

http://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Cecotropes

Avipro Plus would be useful, it is a prebiotic, prebiotics can aid the absorption of dietary nutrients. Prebiotics are a certain type of non-caloric carbohydrate. The technical names for them are are inulin and oligofructose. These substances go through the gut unchanged and are then used by the 'good' bacteria in the colon to enable the 'good' bacteria to proliferate.

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-suppleme...probiotic-products-c-5_172/avipro-plus-p-1225
 
You could put any formed cecotrophs within her reach she might eat them. If she continues to be unable/unwilling to eat them I'd have a word with your Vet as she may need some vitamin supplementation, (Vit B).

http://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Cecotropes

Avipro Plus would be useful, it is a prebiotic, prebiotics can aid the absorption of dietary nutrients. Prebiotics are a certain type of non-caloric carbohydrate. The technical names for them are are inulin and oligofructose. These substances go through the gut unchanged and are then used by the 'good' bacteria in the colon to enable the 'good' bacteria to proliferate.

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-suppleme...probiotic-products-c-5_172/avipro-plus-p-1225

Thank you very much for those links and advice. I usually try and offer her the formed ones or leave them out infront of her but she's never gone to eat them so I would like to discuss a supplement or prebiotic with my vet, we're due back in a couple of weeks.
 
Thank you.

Just a quick update, Beano has had a good few days. She seems to be moving around better and seems brighter in herself. A big concern for me at the moment is she can't eat her caecotrophs, and is getting messy with them. I check her as often as possibly and they just wipe away from her tail if I catch them 'fresh', but when I'm at work or sometimes first thing there is sometimes a larger mass of them and this requires a bum bath to get clean. She is indoors and I have a fly curtain on their window so I'm not too concerned about flystrike although do check her regularly for this. Is there a chance she could become ill through not eating her caecotrophs? I worry she won't be getting the right nutrients, she is skinny and it's a battle to keep weight on her as it is. Thank you for any further advice.


Hi Liz

I'm glad to hear that young Beano has had a good few days :D

I have always tried offering caecotrophs to a rabbit who can't get them herself, but they don't always want them if they aren't super fresh, if you know what I mean!

In that case I have supplemented with B vitamins, as that's what she may be missing. I don't think she will necessary become ill through not eating them, but having extra B vitamins will also help with nutrient absorption, so a good thing anyway.
 
Thank you very much for those links and advice. I usually try and offer her the formed ones or leave them out infront of her but she's never gone to eat them so I would like to discuss a supplement or prebiotic with my vet, we're due back in a couple of weeks.

If you manage to get a cecotroph 'hot off the press' she may be more likely to eat it as it'll still be warm and it'll smell 'normal' to her.


Only on RU will there be a discussion about the best way to serve poo................. :?
 
Thank you very much for those links and advice. I usually try and offer her the formed ones or leave them out infront of her but she's never gone to eat them so I would like to discuss a supplement or prebiotic with my vet, we're due back in a couple of weeks.


Yes, a probiotic - Avipro plus, will also be a good thing to try :D
 
Thank you for all your help so far.

Beano is doing fairly well, she is managing to move around well and her leg is rarely being dragged now with her current medication, despite still being wobbly and splayed at times. I'm struggling to keep her dry though, she has puppy pads in her trays and they are changed daily and never feel wet and she has vet bed down over the most common areas they sit in the bedroom. She was shaved when I first posted this at the vets but her fur grows very quickly and soon matts, and now she has urine scald :cry: The worst leg on the inside is almost completely bald and pink. She has prescription cream and is bathed twice daily now (with cream applied after) but every time I go back to check on her she is wet again, I think it's just the way she sits whenever she wee's she soaks herself and I don't know how to prevent this. Any advice please?
 
Thank you for all your help so far.

Beano is doing fairly well, she is managing to move around well and her leg is rarely being dragged now with her current medication, despite still being wobbly and splayed at times. I'm struggling to keep her dry though, she has puppy pads in her trays and they are changed daily and never feel wet and she has vet bed down over the most common areas they sit in the bedroom. She was shaved when I first posted this at the vets but her fur grows very quickly and soon matts, and now she has urine scald :cry: The worst leg on the inside is almost completely bald and pink. She has prescription cream and is bathed twice daily now (with cream applied after) but every time I go back to check on her she is wet again, I think it's just the way she sits whenever she wee's she soaks herself and I don't know how to prevent this. Any advice please?


I don't know what cream you're using, is it Flamazine? It actually sounds like it's not a 'barrier' cream and is letting the moisture through. This would happen with a baby if the correct cream wasn't applied - they would get very red and angry skin.

Can you change to one that is healing but doesn't let moisture through?

Gill (vet at Windelsham) recommends Derbymed SCP Spray:

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Derbymed-SCP-Spray-200ml/productinfo/DERBYMSCP/

Derbymed SCP Spray 200ml is a soothing, antiseptic wound spray that removes excessive moisture from open wounds and aids in the management of cuts, sores and proud flesh.

Composition : Zinc oxide, Calcium stearate, Oregano oil,
Camomile oil, Arnica oil, Teatree oil, Marigold oil.


I had the same issue as you with an arthritic rabbit, and I used a different, totally natural, cream. But it was extremely good and healed the skin up within 12 hours. It's possible to manage the condition - speak with your vet again?
 
Thanks MM, it is flamazine yes. I'm going to get her another appointment this week and will request a different cream. In a rabbit medicine book I have there's mention of a couple of natural creams you can buy, I may mention these too.

The vet doesn't seem to suggest much when I ask about management, just says daily baths and cream but i make sure she's dry after a bath (quick splash with water) and blow-dry and cream and within an hour she can be soaked again. I will ask again though, I just hope she's in no pain as it looks terribly sore. But she always goes off pellets when uncomfortable/in pain and she's been eating them all for the first time in several weeks atm which I guess is positive :)
 
Thanks MM, it is flamazine yes. I'm going to get her another appointment this week and will request a different cream. In a rabbit medicine book I have there's mention of a couple of natural creams you can buy, I may mention these too.

The vet doesn't seem to suggest much when I ask about management, just says daily baths and cream but i make sure she's dry after a bath (quick splash with water) and blow-dry and cream and within an hour she can be soaked again. I will ask again though, I just hope she's in no pain as it looks terribly sore. But she always goes off pellets when uncomfortable/in pain and she's been eating them all for the first time in several weeks atm which I guess is positive :)


Yes, that is a positive. You don't want it to get so uncomfortable for her that she goes off food though.

A good barrier cream will make all the difference. I found I only had to wash once daily and the skin healed up nicely.

I wish more vets were more clued up with the nursing aspect of rabbit husbandry, sometimes!
 
I'm sorry to only come on Ru to post on this thread again, asking for advice when ive has little to offer others recently. I've just started a new full time job and been doing lots of training on top for it amongst other things.

I checked Beano this morning and she was well, wobbly and unsteady but managing to drag her legs relatively easily which is the best she seems to be at the moment. My partner fed them as I left early and said she ate and all was well. Ive been to check on her now and she isn't moving her back end at all and can't hold herself up on her front legs either, she looks in a really sorry state :cry: Shes been cleaned and dried and is on her vetbed with hay and water within reach, she has a vet appt at 8pm. I believe the vets will advise pts, but I don't know if it's the right time. She'll eat most times and is eating hay and treats atm, but I don't know if she's hiding pain and despite regular checks she does get wet and sore and sometimes.needs help getting around. She never lies down and can't Binky nymore so does she really have quality of life but then other times she seems bright and content. I really don't know what to do, will wait for vets advice :cry:
 
I'm so sorry:cry: I am sure that you will make the best decision for her, whatever that is at the moment.

Hugs xx
 
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