Hello - Week 2 of Stasis (Long read sorry)

Ive just read all through your thread with my heart in my mouth. I am SO glad siddi is on the mend. My buns have only just started getting golden poos because i stopped foraging. The forage makes them darker and now they are only on had they are like pure gold balls. They will go back darker when i start foraging again. This forum is a life saver for us humans lol.. The members on here have kept me going and im glad to see they have all been here for you too. I hope you and siddi can get back to normal soon and im also going to give that hay a try. :lol: nice to meet you xxx

Siddi the Hay Connaisseur

Glad he approves of the Green Oat Hay. Mine are still devouring it as though someone nasty person is going to take it away from them if they don't :lol:

where is it from omi, i wouldnt mind trying some for the buns.

willow and squiggles said:

where is it from omi, i wouldnt mind trying some for the buns.

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https://www.timothyhay.co.uk/products/copy-of-2016-10kg-of-timothy-hay

They are saying they're sold out again. You need to keep checking because (don't understand why) they keeping finding some more both of the Oat hay and also the 'Timothy. I'm told also that they sometimes have it available via their Facebook site, so you could try that also (I'm not on FB).

They are also saying that their new crop of Timothy will be available mid to late June, so maybe the Oat hay will also be ready then.

I have to say this is the best hay I have ever had for my rabbits and they agree It is very green, stalky and the strands are very long. I was saying on another thread that I would love to see it growing, as the Oat grass from which it's made must be very tall

It's been a lot of late nights and stress (Almost fell asleep at work a few times!) Willow but 52 days since his seizure and over the weekend he was doing bunny 500 and doing binkys. His leg is still a bit stiff when he tries it, you can tell it doesn't take it was well as his left leg but his wobbles are a lot more limited too, he's really coming on. The advice here too has been wonderful. We work on him everyday but it looks like he is enjoying his life again and seems content with sunbathing, dashing about the place, being stroked and generally having a normal as possible life. It's rewarding to see! He just has to keep it up!

Recommend that hay though!

His Green Oat hay came from here:

https://www.thehayexperts.co.uk/green-oat-hay.html

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-food-burns-rabbit-food-c-649_650_1305/burns-green-oat-hay-900g-p-9263

Regards
Rich

Hey buds, hope you’re all well and had a nice summer.

Sid continues to go from strength to strength so thanks once again for all your lovely support. He last had Metacam in the last week of July and hasn’t looked back since.. Until now perhaps, which is why I’ve come to ask a few things if you don’t mind.
All his normal behavior recently has been perfect, he’s having binky 100 evenings, bouncing about, eating, pooping and peeing fine, but ever since his seizure in May he has become a lot more chatty.

In the past week, he has been chatty with the odd click, sometimes he will randomly click and then begin to chat, or sometimes he will just click – but then be perfectly fine a few mins later, e.g. groom himself and carry on as normal.

The only real other symptoms he has shown is he seems quite prone to weepy eyes now, at night time. I change his cage daily now and it might be the new hay or the bedding, they’re both quite dusty and dry. Alongside that, when he eats his pellets now, he tends to leave a bit of dust whereas before, he would not. We are going to get some more at the weekend so they’re fresh as opposed to a few weeks old, you never know it might be the batch. Sometimes when you stroke him and go down towards his right hind leg (where his initial injury was) he was be sensitive about it, but given a few hours before he’s charging around the living room and binkying, it’s hard to tell. At the same time, he might just be energetic and like a human be over doing it sometimes. The vet has checked his teeth in the past fortnight and is satisfied they’re fine.

Aside from that, he’s fine, it’s just perhaps his age but clicking has always concerned me. We have about a months supply of Metacam in date and left over from the end of July. Would it be worth trying a dose of that? I don’t know if it’s a great idea to give it to him given he’s still behaving his normal self alongside a normal toilet habit and food habit? Any thoughts would be most appreciated. All the best. Rich

Hi folks,

Sid had a fit at 3am this morning. Following his one at the start of May - this is his second one.

We took him to the emergency vet where he was given diazepam or the like - to calm him down - we have been given one in emergency and another treatment of panacur.

Also, he has a bottle of metacam and the GI mobility stuff if he doesn't eat in the next 24 hours along with a weeks supply of critical care.

Not sure what caused this as he was fine all day, we think the two carrot slices he rarely has may have not gone down well with his glucose and spiked it too dramatically but the vet didn't take a reading so can't be sure, also she wasn't 100% convinced by that theory, urgh.

Next 24 hours we will monitor him and hopefully get him back to food and poops. He's got a nice warm bed along with a snugglesafe for now, his mobility is not great but he's moving since he got back home. His stomach feels very tense though, not sure whether to wait to see if it hardens to the point we need to take him back to the vet or if it's just tense from the spasms of the fit. He doesn't appear to be clicking frequently bar the odd few times in the hour or so since he's been home.

Any other treatments you can think of or advice please let me know, I want to make sure I can offer him as much comfort as possible.

If it happens again, perhaps best for an MRI - he's everything else and all came back clear. Now, just time to get him through the next 24 hours.

Rich

Sending lots of vibes for Sid.

Sidditherabbit said:

Hi folks,

Sid had a fit at 3am this morning. Following his one at the start of May - this is his second one.

We took him to the emergency vet where he was given diazepam or the like - to calm him down - we have been given one in emergency and another treatment of panacur.

Also, he has a bottle of metacam and the GI mobility stuff if he doesn't eat in the next 24 hours along with a weeks supply of critical care.

Not sure what caused this as he was fine all day, we think the two carrot slices he rarely has may have not gone down well with his glucose and spiked it too dramatically but the vet didn't take a reading so can't be sure, also she wasn't 100% convinced by that theory, urgh.

Next 24 hours we will monitor him and hopefully get him back to food and poops. He's got a nice warm bed along with a snugglesafe for now, his mobility is not great but he's moving since he got back home. His stomach feels very tense though, not sure whether to wait to see if it hardens to the point we need to take him back to the vet or if it's just tense from the spasms of the fit. He doesn't appear to be clicking frequently bar the odd few times in the hour or so since he's been home.

Any other treatments you can think of or advice please let me know, I want to make sure I can offer him as much comfort as possible.

If it happens again, perhaps best for an MRI - he's everything else and all came back clear. Now, just time to get him through the next 24 hours.

Rich

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Hi Rich

I am sorry to hear about Sid. I hop it's an isolated case. When my rabbit had fits I asked my vet for rectal diazepam spansules to administer as necessary. My vet hadn't come across a case but was happy with my suggestion and it worked well.

I have known others treat with Vivitonin/daily epiphen and done well.

I found it took a few days to get over a seizure during which time I just kept things warm and quiet. Unfortunately in the case of my rabbit, as he was 24/7 free range, I found I couldn't pen him up as that made him much worse.

Good luck and sending vibes xx

Sidditherabbit said:

Hi folks,

Sid had a fit at 3am this morning. Following his one at the start of May - this is his second one.

We took him to the emergency vet where he was given diazepam or the like - to calm him down - we have been given one in emergency and another treatment of panacur.

Also, he has a bottle of metacam and the GI mobility stuff if he doesn't eat in the next 24 hours along with a weeks supply of critical care.

Not sure what caused this as he was fine all day, we think the two carrot slices he rarely has may have not gone down well with his glucose and spiked it too dramatically but the vet didn't take a reading so can't be sure, also she wasn't 100% convinced by that theory, urgh.

Next 24 hours we will monitor him and hopefully get him back to food and poops. He's got a nice warm bed along with a snugglesafe for now, his mobility is not great but he's moving since he got back home. His stomach feels very tense though, not sure whether to wait to see if it hardens to the point we need to take him back to the vet or if it's just tense from the spasms of the fit. He doesn't appear to be clicking frequently bar the odd few times in the hour or so since he's been home.

Any other treatments you can think of or advice please let me know, I want to make sure I can offer him as much comfort as possible.

If it happens again, perhaps best for an MRI - he's everything else and all came back clear. Now, just time to get him through the next 24 hours.

Rich

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Sorry to hear that Siddi has had another seizure. I hope that he is doing better now. I have a Rabbit who has daily 'absences' and he has also had a few full blown seizures. At the moment we are treating symptomatically- ie only when he has a full seizure. He too has Diazepam. I had another Rabbit who was prescribed Phenibarbitone for his Idiopathic Epilepsy.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Phenobarbitone.htm

Jack's-Jane said:

Sorry to hear that Siddi has had another seizure. I hope that he is doing better now. I have a Rabbit who has daily 'absences' and he has also had a few full blown seizures. At the moment we are treating symptomatically- ie only when he has a full seizure. He too has Diazepam. I had another Rabbit who was prescribed Phenibarbitone for his Idiopathic Epilepsy.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Phenobarbitone.htm

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I remember you saying that this did little for your rabbit and the side effects were such that he was taken off it?

Morning (afternoon by the time I've finished writing!)

Sid has been given another round of panacur for it and metacam. He's also got a rectube of diazepam should it happen again as he gets very very flustered following. Also severely affects his mobility for a few hours. To be fair, he did try to move again within minute s of getting back from the emergency vet and that was after the injection of diazepam. He is almost back to normal today.. Headpad, sleeping, poops of decent size, eating & drinking etc.

That's two seizures in 5 months. This time massaging his stomach and just holding him in firm really sped up how quickly he snapped out of it.

I'm just not convinced on the e-coniculi DD. He had a really really full belly after eating too much veg (grandma is a feeder - have made sure it doesn't happen again) the night before and I was convinced something was up with him, he wasn't purring to belly massages on the evening but at least his behaviour was fairly normal. Just a relief I sleep next to where he takes residence at night time. But if that's the case, given he's only 1.4kg, I think it might be glucose related as last time looking back, he ate carrot tops and treats while in stasis and couldn't get them through system prior to fit.

We are disciplined with what we feed him, but the portions need adjusting I guess. The vet I think I mentioned has done everything bar an MRI (blood, urine, xray -all came back clear) - they want 1.5/2k for it and then there's the risk of stasis again because of the anaesthetic.

Fun and games with older rabbits - I just love him to pieces and desperate for him to enjoy his senior years pain free!

Thanks once again for your messages! It's appreciated!

Sidditherabbit said:

Morning (afternoon by the time I've finished writing!)

Sid has been given another round of panacur for it and metacam. He's also got a rectube of diazepam should it happen again as he gets very very flustered following. Also severely affects his mobility for a few hours. To be fair, he did try to move again within minute s of getting back from the emergency vet and that was after the injection of diazepam. He is almost back to normal today.. Headpad, sleeping, poops of decent size, eating & drinking etc.

That's two seizures in 5 months. This time massaging his stomach and just holding him in firm really sped up how quickly he snapped out of it.

I'm just not convinced on the e-coniculi DD. He had a really really full belly after eating too much veg (grandma is a feeder - have made sure it doesn't happen again) the night before and I was convinced something was up with him, he wasn't purring to belly massages on the evening but at least his behaviour was fairly normal. Just a relief I sleep next to where he takes residence at night time. But if that's the case, given he's only 1.4kg, I think it might be glucose related as last time looking back, he ate carrot tops and treats while in stasis and couldn't get them through system prior to fit.

We are disciplined with what we feed him, but the portions need adjusting I guess. The vet I think I mentioned has done everything bar an MRI (blood, urine, xray -all came back clear) - they want 1.5/2k for it and then there's the risk of stasis again because of the anaesthetic.

Fun and games with older rabbits - I just love him to pieces and desperate for him to enjoy his senior years pain free!

Thanks once again for your messages! It's appreciated!

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I'm glad that Siddi is doing better now. Has the Vet ever mentioned an Insulinoma as a possibility ? Sorry if you have already mentioned this, I have not re-read the entire thread

In a thread from a few years back about a Rabbit with an Insulinoma an Exotics Specialist Vet posted this

marie_kubiak said:

It is unusual in bunnies but as Jane says it is fairly common in ferrets so most treatments are extrapolated from ferret medicine.
Firstly it needs confirmation - there are many causes of a low blood glucose and insulinoma is only one. It can be difficult to confirm as most of the time the growth is too tiny to see with the naked eye but still capable of producing lots of insulin. If there is a nodule visible on ultrasound then it makes diagnosis much easier. I rely on repeat measurements of a low blood glucose, ultrasound findings, blood insulin levels and even exploratory surgery when investigating ferrets.
There are various treatment options with surgical removal of the affected pancreatic lobe and medication to reduce insulin production the most commonly used.
Don't panic and try and overthink it until you know exactly what you're dealing with.
Marie

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There is little documented information about Insulinomas in Rabbits but as Marie said in her post, diagnosis and treatment options are extrapolated from Ferret Medicine

http://www.avianandexotic.com/care-sheets/mammals/insulinoma-in-ferrets/

Sidditherabbit said:

Morning (afternoon by the time I've finished writing!)

Sid has been given another round of panacur for it and metacam. He's also got a rectube of diazepam should it happen again as he gets very very flustered following. Also severely affects his mobility for a few hours. To be fair, he did try to move again within minute s of getting back from the emergency vet and that was after the injection of diazepam. He is almost back to normal today.. Headpad, sleeping, poops of decent size, eating & drinking etc.

That's two seizures in 5 months. This time massaging his stomach and just holding him in firm really sped up how quickly he snapped out of it.

I'm just not convinced on the e-coniculi DD. He had a really really full belly after eating too much veg (grandma is a feeder - have made sure it doesn't happen again) the night before and I was convinced something was up with him, he wasn't purring to belly massages on the evening but at least his behaviour was fairly normal. Just a relief I sleep next to where he takes residence at night time. But if that's the case, given he's only 1.4kg, I think it might be glucose related as last time looking back, he ate carrot tops and treats while in stasis and couldn't get them through system prior to fit.

We are disciplined with what we feed him, but the portions need adjusting I guess. The vet I think I mentioned has done everything bar an MRI (blood, urine, xray -all came back clear) - they want 1.5/2k for it and then there's the risk of stasis again because of the anaesthetic.

Fun and games with older rabbits - I just love him to pieces and desperate for him to enjoy his senior years pain free!

Thanks once again for your messages! It's appreciated!

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You're welcome

Fun and games indeed with older rabbits, but you are so much on the ball .. He is lucky to have such vigilant owners

I'm glad his other test results came back clear, and that's quite a hefty whack for an MRI. Though I expect it's the same for humans?

Howdy,

JJ - Thanks for this, it's not been mentioned before - possibility perhaps but it's hard to tell, I wish they could say 10 words, would help so much! Both fits have come when his belly have been very full in the hours prior to the fit with non hay food.

There was no abnormal counts at the end of a June (about 50 days) after his first fit, so I presume they decided not to investigate it.

The only other differences are that he's still quite wobbly after his first seizure, though it improved massively - he chats a lot more than he used to and that will really shake his head everynow and again.

Max - do you get any clues prior to fit that he/she is not quite right? MRI's are very expensive for people too, the machines are the same they just create a custom bed for pets, hence the same sort of prices!

Thank you so much for the help, he's spending his day today on the snugglesafe sleeping! You wouldn't even be able to tell about what happened judging by the past few hours of how content he's looked.

Hi folks,

Update - We're 9 days on from the 10th now and Sid is progressing. He is only eating pellets atm and a few leaves of parsley and being fed hay from us as he won't touch it left alone.

Meds: Fibreplex, Another course of Panacur (vet wants full 28 days worth, we've done 8 so far) and a daily metacam dose (0.3ml).

Poops are smallish but constant & consistant... Though from 8am - 6pm not really existent, (he has been like this most of his life) but every time late night he eats pellets he has a really gurgling belly for the past 3 days (last between 30m-1h), but no obvious signs of pain - he is still running about at night, active and alert, even with the odd binky. In the day he's very very drowsy. Lives with his snugglesafe. @ Night, Feeling his tummy at 2-4am each night his stomach is so soft. it's a bit concerning however he is often ravenous for food then- however he's gone from being stuffed each night from food to having a managed amount of food so we just want t make sure the amount he eats he can cope with. I'm up in the night from 11,1,4,6 to check on him, also in same room so can hear if anything is bad (e.g. fit as light sleeper)..

Should we try a critical care morning and night?? - vet said it might be worth adding in cisapride too as might help get him back on hay, but I don't want to risk motility drugs until absolutely necessary.. Have also got the oxbox digestive cookies which have very good reviews, but as of yet can't encourage him, was thinking of chopping biscuit in pellet size and mixing it in to that feed, to see if it will encourage him.

Is there anything else we should try, he's got a snugglesafe and having belly massages, I just need to make sure at this early stage of recovery that the gurgling doesn't turn into bad gas, because that's when things can go downhill quickly.

Sidditherabbit said:

Hi folks,

Update - We're 9 days on from the 10th now and Sid is progressing. He is only eating pellets atm and a few leaves of parsley and being fed hay from us as he won't touch it left alone.

Meds: Fibreplex, Another course of Panacur (vet wants full 28 days worth, we've done 8 so far) and a daily metacam dose (0.3ml).

Poops are smallish but constant & consistant... Though from 8am - 6pm not really existent, (he has been like this most of his life) but every time late night he eats pellets he has a really gurgling belly for the past 3 days (last between 30m-1h), but no obvious signs of pain - he is still running about at night, active and alert, even with the odd binky. In the day he's very very drowsy. Lives with his snugglesafe. @ Night, Feeling his tummy at 2-4am each night his stomach is so soft. it's a bit concerning however he is often ravenous for food then- however he's gone from being stuffed each night from food to having a managed amount of food so we just want t make sure the amount he eats he can cope with. I'm up in the night from 11,1,4,6 to check on him, also in same room so can hear if anything is bad (e.g. fit as light sleeper)..

Should we try a critical care morning and night?? - vet said it might be worth adding in cisapride too as might help get him back on hay, but I don't want to risk motility drugs until absolutely necessary.. Have also got the oxbox digestive cookies which have very good reviews, but as of yet can't encourage him, was thinking of chopping biscuit in pellet size and mixing it in to that feed, to see if it will encourage him.

Is there anything else we should try, he's got a snugglesafe and having belly massages, I just need to make sure at this early stage of recovery that the gurgling doesn't turn into bad gas, because that's when things can go downhill quickly.

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I have recently been some advice from a Rabbit Specialist Vet regarding a Rabbit with an ongoing GI tract problem. He has suggested using Ranitidine (Zantac) on a longterm basis. Zantac is a drug that reduces the acidity of the GI tract but it can also have some prokinetic effects on the hind gut. For a Rabbit with periods of reduced appetite and also on Metacam (which can be a gastric irritant) a medication to protect the stomach lining from ulceration (ie Zantac) can be beneficial. As can the fact that it can have good prokinetic effects.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Ranitidine.htm

I know you are reluctant to agree to starting Siddi on any other medication, but personally I would have a think about it again. Maybe have a chat with the Vet about the dual benefits of giving Zantac ?

Sidditherabbit said:

Hi folks,

Update - We're 9 days on from the 10th now and Sid is progressing. He is only eating pellets atm and a few leaves of parsley and being fed hay from us as he won't touch it left alone.

Meds: Fibreplex, Another course of Panacur (vet wants full 28 days worth, we've done 8 so far) and a daily metacam dose (0.3ml).

Poops are smallish but constant & consistant... Though from 8am - 6pm not really existent, (he has been like this most of his life) but every time late night he eats pellets he has a really gurgling belly for the past 3 days (last between 30m-1h), but no obvious signs of pain - he is still running about at night, active and alert, even with the odd binky. In the day he's very very drowsy. Lives with his snugglesafe. @ Night, Feeling his tummy at 2-4am each night his stomach is so soft. it's a bit concerning however he is often ravenous for food then- however he's gone from being stuffed each night from food to having a managed amount of food so we just want t make sure the amount he eats he can cope with. I'm up in the night from 11,1,4,6 to check on him, also in same room so can hear if anything is bad (e.g. fit as light sleeper)..

Should we try a critical care morning and night?? - vet said it might be worth adding in cisapride too as might help get him back on hay, but I don't want to risk motility drugs until absolutely necessary.. Have also got the oxbox digestive cookies which have very good reviews, but as of yet can't encourage him, was thinking of chopping biscuit in pellet size and mixing it in to that feed, to see if it will encourage him.

Is there anything else we should try, he's got a snugglesafe and having belly massages, I just need to make sure at this early stage of recovery that the gurgling doesn't turn into bad gas, because that's when things can go downhill quickly.

Click to expand...

Hi there :wave:

One thing that's come to my mind reading your post is the longer term issues you might be facing and how to deal with them.

There is a lovely member on here called cpayne and she has an adorable rabbit called Doughnut She has been through *a lot* of issues with digestive disturbances with her rabbit. They consulted with an exotics vet and finally arrived at a working protocol. Her vet is Mark Rowland of Trinity Vet Centre http://trinityvetcentre.com/news/staff/mark-rowland-2

My vet often consults with Mark about intractable issues so I know he's good

Doughnut has a daily regimen of meds that she is on for life and it's working for her.

I am sure cpayne wouldn't mind you dropping her a PM to ask advice ...

That said, her rabbit has now been selected as a model for a Calendar, so she may be quite busy

Certainly worth a try, thank you both!

We have him stable on pellets and parsley atm (today is 14 days on) - good poops etc overnight and he's mobile and active in the day, just very very lazy and sleepy from about 10am - 7pm at night, makes up for it at night though.

Have to feed him certain strands of hay since the latest seizure, which is just odd because he used to gobble by himself. As before, meds atm 0.3 metacam after food, panacur for another 2weeks and a daily shot of fibreplex to assist him.

One thing worth mentioning, his weepy eyes are massively on and off, so for the past few days he's been fine but last night his right eye was extremely damp (there's no discharge - it's clear) - any ideas? Everything feels normal, gut sounds good when he eats, very limited clicking. Teeth noises sometimes are a bit quiet, but they've improved.

Maybe eye drops? We clean it each morning with luke warm water and a fresh cloth specially for him, that seems to make sure the fur reverts to normal by mid afternoon.

Cheers folks!

Rich

Sidditherabbit said:

Certainly worth a try, thank you both!

We have him stable on pellets and parsley atm (today is 14 days on) - good poops etc overnight and he's mobile and active in the day, just very very lazy and sleepy from about 10am - 7pm at night, makes up for it at night though.

Have to feed him certain strands of hay since the latest seizure, which is just odd because he used to gobble by himself. As before, meds atm 0.3 metacam after food, panacur for another 2weeks and a daily shot of fibreplex to assist him.

One thing worth mentioning, his weepy eyes are massively on and off, so for the past few days he's been fine but last night his right eye was extremely damp (there's no discharge - it's clear) - any ideas? Everything feels normal, gut sounds good when he eats, very limited clicking. Teeth noises sometimes are a bit quiet, but they've improved.

Maybe eye drops? We clean it each morning with luke warm water and a fresh cloth specially for him, that seems to make sure the fur reverts to normal by mid afternoon.

Cheers folks!

Rich

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His activity/sleep pattern is normal for Rabbits as they are always most active in the early mornings/evenings. Just as they would be in the wild

Re his eyes, it may be that something is irritating them now and again. Sometimes a Rabbit in heavy moult will get runny eyes as a result of some bits of fur going into them. In these circumstances I use some artificial tears which help lubricate and soothe the eyes. Do check with your Vet first before using any sort of eye drops for Sid though xx