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Teddy has ec affecting bladder

So, mixed feeling really.

In himself, Teddy has returned home pretty much ok, with a good appetite :love:

Looks battle worn as fur has been clipped around lump between ears, leaving it exposed and to be honest, rather ugly. I have not checked him underneath. Almost frightened to as imagine it is not a pretty sight. He has been cleaned up and flamazine applied.

Molly extracted around 300ml of thick gooey urine (I checked on a jug how much ... flippin heck, a lot for a bunny"!), so he must be feeling better minus all that :) Apparently it took over an hour to do this :shock:

Molly clipped as much as is possible but was restricted, as he is very sore underneath ... sigh :(

Molly also aspirated the lump and sent cells to dermatology. Not a definite conclusion, but potentially not a 'good lump'. Not able to remove the lump as would have meant taking part of Teddy's ear .. gulp! On that one, I got the impression, leave well alone. What do you think?

Teddy is now on .8ml twice a day Metacam and 2 x 10mg Tramadol. A massive increase in pain relief, which I think is very positive. And 2 more doses Panacur to go.

I really, really don't want to have to syringe metacam/tramadol twice a day so have to find a fool proof alternative. Muddled through tonight crushing a tablet, mixing it with metacam and spreading it on toast but at the moment, only half the toast has been eaten. Early days, and very much trial and error. Any tips?

Molly think Teddy is having problems with the mechanics of expelling urine. She doesn't think he has kidney failure at this stage.

If we don't see an improvement we are going to try Propalin (she thinks expensive?) but from experience, as said before, she has said "don't hold your breath" - so not very positive on the medication.

Anyone know of any success with Propalin on male bunnies?

I don't know what to think at this stage. I suspect she is guarded in her expectations moving forwarded but I just don't know ....
 
joey&boo said:
I've been following Teddy's thread & rooting for him though don't think I've contributed. I've only vibes to offer. So glad he is under Molly now
Click to expand...

Hello Jeoy&boo :wave:

Just like me, I often follow threads, rooting for all the bunnies and don't always post but always hoping for the best outcome. #

Thanks ever so, for your kind thoughts which are much appreciated :)
 
cara said:
So, mixed feeling really.

In himself, Teddy has returned home pretty much ok, with a good appetite :love:

Looks battle worn as fur has been clipped around lump between ears, leaving it exposed and to be honest, rather ugly. I have not checked him underneath. Almost frightened to as imagine it is not a pretty sight. He has been cleaned up and flamazine applied.

Molly extracted around 300ml of thick gooey urine (I checked on a jug how much ... flippin heck, a lot for a bunny"!), so he must be feeling better minus all that :) Apparently it took over an hour to do this :shock:

Molly clipped as much as is possible but was restricted, as he is very sore underneath ... sigh :(

Molly also aspirated the lump and sent cells to dermatology. Not a definite conclusion, but potentially not a 'good lump'. Not able to remove the lump as would have meant taking part of Teddy's ear .. gulp! On that one, I got the impression, leave well alone. What do you think?

Teddy is now on .8ml twice a day Metacam and 2 x 10mg Tramadol. A massive increase in pain relief, which I think is very positive. And 2 more doses Panacur to go.

I really, really don't want to have to syringe metacam/tramadol twice a day so have to find a fool proof alternative. Muddled through tonight crushing a tablet, mixing it with metacam and spreading it on toast but at the moment, only half the toast has been eaten. Early days, and very much trial and error. Any tips?

Molly think Teddy is having problems with the mechanics of expelling urine. She doesn't think he has kidney failure at this stage.

If we don't see an improvement we are going to try Propalin (she thinks expensive?) but from experience, as said before, she has said "don't hold your breath" - so not very positive on the medication.

Anyone know of any success with Propalin on male bunnies?

I don't know what to think at this stage. I suspect she is guarded in her expectations moving forwarded but I just don't know ....
Click to expand...


Cara, this is all very interesting!

I'm sorry to hear about the lump. I'm often of the 'leave well alone mentality, unless the vet thinks it's a really good idea to operate.

Ted's on a good amount of pain relief, so I hope you notice a difference in his behaviour. A lot of goopy urine eh - sludge?

Regarding Tramadol - have you been given pills then? I have bottle of the liquid. It's a small dose.

Propalin isn't expensive at all. I bought loads of bottles of it with prescriptions from the vet.

Wait for results then ... Is she also going to culture the urine to see whether there's any bacterial growth?
 
cara said:
So, mixed feeling really.

In himself, Teddy has returned home pretty much ok, with a good appetite :love:

Looks battle worn as fur has been clipped around lump between ears, leaving it exposed and to be honest, rather ugly. I have not checked him underneath. Almost frightened to as imagine it is not a pretty sight. He has been cleaned up and flamazine applied.

Molly extracted around 300ml of thick gooey urine (I checked on a jug how much ... flippin heck, a lot for a bunny"!), so he must be feeling better minus all that :) Apparently it took over an hour to do this :shock:

Molly clipped as much as is possible but was restricted, as he is very sore underneath ... sigh :(

Molly also aspirated the lump and sent cells to dermatology. Not a definite conclusion, but potentially not a 'good lump'. Not able to remove the lump as would have meant taking part of Teddy's ear .. gulp! On that one, I got the impression, leave well alone. What do you think?

Teddy is now on .8ml twice a day Metacam and 2 x 10mg Tramadol. A massive increase in pain relief, which I think is very positive. And 2 more doses Panacur to go.

I really, really don't want to have to syringe metacam/tramadol twice a day so have to find a fool proof alternative. Muddled through tonight crushing a tablet, mixing it with metacam and spreading it on toast but at the moment, only half the toast has been eaten. Early days, and very much trial and error. Any tips?

Molly think Teddy is having problems with the mechanics of expelling urine. She doesn't think he has kidney failure at this stage.

If we don't see an improvement we are going to try Propalin (she thinks expensive?) but from experience, as said before, she has said "don't hold your breath" - so not very positive on the medication.

Anyone know of any success with Propalin on male bunnies?

I don't know what to think at this stage. I suspect she is guarded in her expectations moving forwarded but I just don't know ....
Click to expand...

You may find that Teddy is a bit less leaky now the gunk has been cleared from his bladder. Has Molly ever mentioned showing you how to help Teddy wee by manually expressing his bladder ? This can be beneficial for Rabbits who cannot feel when they need to wee and/or do not fully empty their bladder when they do wee. Both scenarios predispose the build up of gunk (sludge) in the bladder and exacerbate leaking problems.

I have had both Bucks and Does prescribed Propalin for incontinence. It helped both equally well. It is not really expensive, you can buy it online with a Veterinary prescription

http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/propalin-syrup-100ml.html

I hope that the lump on Teddy's head is not anything 'nasty', hopefully you wont have to wait too long for the Cytology results.

If it is impossible to syringe meds into Teddy (it is generally best to do so to insure a full dose is given) then you could try putting it on a Malted Shreddie. Would he eat some Veg Baby food ? If so you could mix the meds into a blob of that. Ellas kitchen pouches are handy:

https://shop.ellaskitchen.co.uk/collections/from-4-months#/#ellas-shop-filter-and-search

Or you could make a bit of stewed apple and mix the meds into that.

I hope that Teddy will remain happy enough within himself despite his problems xx
 
cara said:
So, mixed feeling really.

In himself, Teddy has returned home pretty much ok, with a good appetite :love:

Looks battle worn as fur has been clipped around lump between ears, leaving it exposed and to be honest, rather ugly. I have not checked him underneath. Almost frightened to as imagine it is not a pretty sight. He has been cleaned up and flamazine applied.

Molly extracted around 300ml of thick gooey urine (I checked on a jug how much ... flippin heck, a lot for a bunny"!), so he must be feeling better minus all that :) Apparently it took over an hour to do this :shock:

Molly clipped as much as is possible but was restricted, as he is very sore underneath ... sigh :(

Molly also aspirated the lump and sent cells to dermatology. Not a definite conclusion, but potentially not a 'good lump'. Not able to remove the lump as would have meant taking part of Teddy's ear .. gulp! On that one, I got the impression, leave well alone. What do you think?

Teddy is now on .8ml twice a day Metacam and 2 x 10mg Tramadol. A massive increase in pain relief, which I think is very positive. And 2 more doses Panacur to go.

I really, really don't want to have to syringe metacam/tramadol twice a day so have to find a fool proof alternative. Muddled through tonight crushing a tablet, mixing it with metacam and spreading it on toast but at the moment, only half the toast has been eaten. Early days, and very much trial and error. Any tips?

Molly think Teddy is having problems with the mechanics of expelling urine. She doesn't think he has kidney failure at this stage.

If we don't see an improvement we are going to try Propalin (she thinks expensive?) but from experience, as said before, she has said "don't hold your breath" - so not very positive on the medication.

Anyone know of any success with Propalin on male bunnies?

I don't know what to think at this stage. I suspect she is guarded in her expectations moving forwarded but I just don't know ....
Click to expand...


Hi Cara - forgot to answer your Q re Propalin.

Yes I have had both male and female rabbits on this medication. As Molly has rightly pointed out (and to be honest my own vet feels exactly the same), the results can be patchy. You would have to do it on a 'trial and see' basis and see whether it helped Teddy.

These links might help - there doesn't seem to be much experience of people using Propalin for their rabbits though ..


http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?453798-Propalin-Urilin-Issues

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?323711-Propalin-for-incontinence-in-Rabbits

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?453073-Propalin-for-Incontinence-dosage
 
cara said:
Molly think Teddy is having problems with the mechanics of expelling urine. She doesn't think he has kidney failure at this stage.

I don't know what to think at this stage. I suspect she is guarded in her expectations moving forwarded but I just don't know ....
Click to expand...


Your vet can show you how to express Ted's bladder. So long as he's plenty of fluids .. veggies/grass etc as well as low calcium water - it's a good idea, to keep the dreaded sludge at bay.

Wildies don't get sludge because they are constantly moving. Our rabbits are far more sedentary by comparison, and so the sludge accumulates in the bladder and isn't passed through as fast.
 
MightyMax said:
Cara, this is all very interesting!

I'm sorry to hear about the lump. I'm often of the 'leave well alone mentality, unless the vet thinks it's a really good idea to operate.

Ted's on a good amount of pain relief, so I hope you notice a difference in his behaviour. A lot of goopy urine eh - sludge?

Regarding Tramadol - have you been given pills then? I have bottle of the liquid. It's a small dose.

Propalin isn't expensive at all. I bought loads of bottles of it with prescriptions from the vet.

Wait for results then ... Is she also going to culture the urine to see whether there's any bacterial growth?[/QUOTE]


not that I am aware of ...

And the Tramadol is tablet form. Easy to crush and add to liquid - mixed it with Metacam and spread on toast, but he is not overly keen on eating it. The toast did go last night eventually though :lol: The concoction has a slightly bitter aftertaste. Is the liquid sweet?
Click to expand...
 
Jack's-Jane said:
You may find that Teddy is a bit less leaky now the gunk has been cleared from his bladder. Has Molly ever mentioned showing you how to help Teddy wee by manually expressing his bladder ? This can be beneficial for Rabbits who cannot feel when they need to wee and/or do not fully empty their bladder when they do wee. Both scenarios predispose the build up of gunk (sludge) in the bladder and exacerbate leaking problems.

I have had both Bucks and Does prescribed Propalin for incontinence. It helped both equally well. It is not really expensive, you can buy it online with a Veterinary prescription

http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/propalin-syrup-100ml.html

I hope that the lump on Teddy's head is not anything 'nasty', hopefully you wont have to wait too long for the Cytology results.

If it is impossible to syringe meds into Teddy (it is generally best to do so to insure a full dose is given) then you could try putting it on a Malted Shreddie. Would he eat some Veg Baby food ? If so you could mix the meds into a blob of that. Ellas kitchen pouches are handy:

https://shop.ellaskitchen.co.uk/collections/from-4-months#/#ellas-shop-filter-and-search

Or you could make a bit of stewed apple and mix the meds into that.

I hope that Teddy will remain happy enough within himself despite his problems xx
Click to expand...

Molly say something like "dermatology department reported lymph cells, but these could be a reaction. However, there were more dense cells which could be ... ". I didn't really take in specifically what she said :oops: I got the impression we weren't going to persue that particular issue. And as I mentioned, it encroaches on his ear which I understand makes it difficult to deal with sure what to make of all that, implications, next step etc.

No, not shown how to express bladder. I would be hopeless! Am a real wuss, reluctant to even syringe meds. I hate (man) handling Teddy, as he detests it and I feel I am alienating him which is counterproductive trust wise. I know this is my problem.

Teddy is quite fussy about food. He does like toast but plain! Or at the most a little Panacur or Metacam, but even that has worn thin recently. Adding Tramadol hasn't won him over! He has never had a food bowl so feeding baby/soft foods is unknown but I am doubtful he will enthuse :? I can see him being suspicious! And I agree, syringe meds is certainly best but my last resort !
 
Having said all that, Teddy was bright, eager and super enthusiastic for his breakfast this morning.

And joy!!!! A dry bunny and environment :love: :love:

However, I am aware we do have to see some pee today. Hopefully in his litter tray :lol:
 
cara said:
Molly say something like "dermatology department reported lymph cells, but these could be a reaction. However, there were more dense cells which could be ... ". I didn't really take in specifically what she said :oops: I got the impression we weren't going to persue that particular issue. And as I mentioned, it encroaches on his ear which I understand makes it difficult to deal with sure what to make of all that, implications, next step etc.

No, not shown how to express bladder. I would be hopeless! Am a real wuss, reluctant to even syringe meds. I hate (man) handling Teddy, as he detests it and I feel I am alienating him which is counterproductive trust wise. I know this is my problem.

Teddy is quite fussy about food. He does like toast but plain! Or at the most a little Panacur or Metacam, but even that has worn thin recently. Adding Tramadol hasn't won him over! He has never had a food bowl so feeding baby/soft foods is unknown but I am doubtful he will enthuse :? I can see him being suspicious! And I agree, syringe meds is certainly best but my last resort !
Click to expand...

Why not try wiping a bit of baby food on Ted's front paw. No meds, just 'neat'. He will no doubt clean it off and he might just like the taste. So you could then try putting a blob of medicated baby food (same flavour as before) on the floor infront of him (kitchen tiles, not carpet !!). He may lick it off the floor even if he would not eat it from a bowl.
 
I shall keep that idea in mind :wave:

Teddy has been very subdued and worryingly, in my mind, he has peed on his fleece (little pee) and outside of his litter tray (inside the tray as well). I feel a niggle in the back of my mind :(

As far as being subdued, the weather could, I expect, be very much to do with that, as it is very hot here.
 
cara said:
I shall keep that idea in mind :wave:

Teddy has been very subdued and worryingly, in my mind, he has peed on his fleece (little pee) and outside of his litter tray (inside the tray as well). I feel a niggle in the back of my mind :(

As far as being subdued, the weather could, I expect, be very much to do with that, as it is very hot here.
Click to expand...

His bladder may be rather tender after yesterday's procedure. That may account for him being rather subdued. Have you managed to get his meds into him ?
 
cara said:
MightyMax said:
Cara, this is all very interesting!

I'm sorry to hear about the lump. I'm often of the 'leave well alone mentality, unless the vet thinks it's a really good idea to operate.

Ted's on a good amount of pain relief, so I hope you notice a difference in his behaviour. A lot of goopy urine eh - sludge?

Regarding Tramadol - have you been given pills then? I have bottle of the liquid. It's a small dose.

Propalin isn't expensive at all. I bought loads of bottles of it with prescriptions from the vet.

Wait for results then ... Is she also going to culture the urine to see whether there's any bacterial growth?[/QUOTE]


not that I am aware of ...

And the Tramadol is tablet form. Easy to crush and add to liquid - mixed it with Metacam and spread on toast, but he is not overly keen on eating it. The toast did go last night eventually though :lol: The concoction has a slightly bitter aftertaste. Is the liquid sweet?
Click to expand...


Hi Cara

Tramadol tastes OK in liquid form, so I'm reliable informed :)

The Tramadol in tablet form leaves a bitter after taste. If you got Teddy to take it, well done, as I know some dogs won't touch it!
(and dogs as we know, will eat almost anything :lol:)
Click to expand...
 
Jack's-Jane said:
His bladder may be rather tender after yesterday's procedure. That may account for him being rather subdued. Have you managed to get his meds into him ?
Click to expand...

His meds ... this morning his medicated toast was grazed on over 3-4 hours, so no good. This evening I spread it on a slice of pear, which he would normally love, but a couple of bites or so and it was rejected. Most disheartening as he must have had some of the meds which was worse than none at all really in terms of getting the correct dose.

So dug deep, prepared another dose and thought I just have to go for it and syringe. Did it in his carrier. Not at all perfect, but hubby was fairly impressed. Helps as it is only a small dose.

Not relishing having to catch him twice a day and think it will sour our relationship :? But until I think of a better way, then it is a case of being cruel to be kind.

I do intend to buy some baby food and try your suggestion Jane.

Overall, I can't help feeling a little down about his situation. I really MUST rise above it and be a bit more positive .. note to self :roll:
 
MightyMax said:
cara said:
Hi Cara

Tramadol tastes OK in liquid form, so I'm reliable informed :)

The Tramadol in tablet form leaves a bitter after taste. If you got Teddy to take it, well done, as I know some dogs won't touch it!
(and dogs as we know, will eat almost anything :lol:)
Click to expand...

Ha ha ... husband told me a funny story about getting a dog to take a tablet .. sneaked it in a pastie :)roll:) and the dog snaffled (!) the pastie and spat the tablet out. Hubby reached out to pick up the tablet and the dog pounced on it (thinking it was food) and woofed it down :lol:

Thinking liquid Tramadol might be the way to go :wave:
Click to expand...
 
cara said:
His meds ... this morning his medicated toast was grazed on over 3-4 hours, so no good. This evening I spread it on a slice of pear, which he would normally love, but a couple of bites or so and it was rejected. Most disheartening as he must have had some of the meds which was worse than none at all really in terms of getting the correct dose.

So dug deep, prepared another dose and thought I just have to go for it and syringe. Did it in his carrier. Not at all perfect, but hubby was fairly impressed. Helps as it is only a small dose.

Not relishing having to catch him twice a day and think it will sour our relationship :? But until I think of a better way, then it is a case of being cruel to be kind.

I do intend to buy some baby food and try your suggestion Jane.

Overall, I can't help feeling a little down about his situation. I really MUST rise above it and be a bit more positive .. note to self :roll:
Click to expand...


Cara, I'm sorry. This constant poor health with a rabbit really grinds us down. It's not as if you have a period of a few weeks when all goes swimmingly well, as you're constantly concerned.

Getting meds into a rabbit that doesn't want to be caught and medicated is an absolute nightmare :( And yes, I worry that this kind of thing will make a rabbit less trustful of us. If the food ting doesn't work though, what choice do you have?
 
cara said:
Ha ha ... husband told me a funny story about getting a dog to take a tablet .. sneaked it in a pastie :)roll:) and the dog snaffled (!) the pastie and spat the tablet out. Hubby reached out to pick up the tablet and the dog pounced on it (thinking it was food) and woofed it down :lol:

Thinking liquid Tramadol might be the way to go :wave:
Click to expand...

Could your Husband be the one to do all the medicating ? So whilst Teddy may loose trust in your Hubby he wont associate you with the 'nasty' behaviour of picking him up and medicating him.

Memo to your Hubby- 'In sickness and in health'..............and that includes the Bunny !
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Could your Husband be the one to do all the medicating ? So whilst Teddy may loose trust in your Hubby he wont associate you with the 'nasty' behaviour of picking him up and medicating him.

Memo to your Hubby- 'In sickness and in health'..............and that includes the Bunny !
Click to expand...

You're so right Jane.

In fact, during the past two weeks on baytril, that's exactly what we did and it worked really well as Teddy definitely trusted me rather than Ian. But that was only once a day for two weeks rather than daily twice a day.

I know he may well do some, if not all the evening medicating, but I will have to do the mornings .. he just doesn't have the time first thing, or need the added stress with his very stressful job.

I did this mornings. It wasn't easy as Teddy kept flinching. Although determined initially, I started feeling shaky but he did get a full dose.

Dishearteningly, Teddy was damp above his tail. We applied more flamazine. Underneath was dry, thank goodness. Wondering why just above his tail now I think about it.

Wondering if an improvement will take time for the extra meds to really kick in?

The fact I really want Teddy to get a full dose is spurring me on to get to grips with the syringing but I am finding it very difficult in a practical sense and emotionally.

Going walking today (Trough of Bowland), loathe to leave him but others are depending on me and I think the break will do me good :)
 
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