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Teddy has ec affecting bladder

cara said:
So today has definitely been a better day for Teddy and therefore of course, for me! He has been relatively dry, yay!

We have bottom bathed him most nights (poor Teddy), really just a rinse with water but tonight I did get the rabbit shampoo out for the first time in a long time and a lashing of cream to follow :?

Today is Day 18 Panacur. Am I right in saying Day 20 should be a disinfecting day? Also, we have gradually restricted his access to the garden .. first the end of the garden and then the middle section, including the lawn. Again, am I right in saying that spores can live in grass for 28 days? Does this mean he should stay off the grass for 28 day? I feel so mean but if it is beneficial then I have to grit my teeth and do it.

Today was also the end of 7 days of Baytril. In fact, as I messed up one dose, he has had 6 1/2 doses. Now, I am wondering if Teddy's improvement could be due to (in addition to the Panacur) the Bayril? If so, is a 7 days enough? Should he have a longer course? If so, I would request extra tomorrow.

I know it is quite likely that I have not yet got to the bottom of the problem but today has been a marked improvement (he still has other issues) and I feel so uplifted :D From experience, it could all turn on its head tomorrow, but tonight, I shall enjoy a respite from the worst of it all nevertheless .....

I do hope it is equally positive in all your neck of the woods :)

Goodnight and thanks for all the advice as so much appreciated :wave:
Click to expand...

It's good to hear that Teddy had a better day yesterday and I really hope that will continue today.

Re the Panacur- days 21 and 28 are when some Vets advise that disinfecting using a 10% bleach solution is done. Wet EC spores (ie on grass etc) can remain infective outside of the host for up to 98 days

''This parasite may remain infective in contaminated bedding and environment.
Dry spores: at 22° C they remain infective outside of the host for over a month.
Wet spores: may remain infective for 98 days.''

Ref- http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

Re the Baytril- I would definitely ask the Vet about Teddy remaining on it for another 7 days given that there has been some improvement. The course usually needs to continue for several days AFTER all clinical symptoms resolve.

Re his droopy tail (Ted's not the Vet's !)- That might be neurological as a result of the EC. I'd check all around the base of his tail as that is where a lot of soreness/infection can occur in incontinent Rabbits.

Lots of 'have a dry day' vibes being sent for Teddy xx
 
cara said:
So today has definitely been a better day for Teddy and therefore of course, for me! He has been relatively dry, yay!

We have bottom bathed him most nights (poor Teddy), really just a rinse with water but tonight I did get the rabbit shampoo out for the first time in a long time and a lashing of cream to follow :?

Today is Day 18 Panacur. Am I right in saying Day 20 should be a disinfecting day? Also, we have gradually restricted his access to the garden .. first the end of the garden and then the middle section, including the lawn. Again, am I right in saying that spores can live in grass for 28 days? Does this mean he should stay off the grass for 28 day? I feel so mean but if it is beneficial then I have to grit my teeth and do it.

Today was also the end of 7 days of Baytril. In fact, as I messed up one dose, he has had 6 1/2 doses. Now, I am wondering if Teddy's improvement could be due to (in addition to the Panacur) the Bayril? If so, is a 7 days enough? Should he have a longer course? If so, I would request extra tomorrow.

I know it is quite likely that I have not yet got to the bottom of the problem but today has been a marked improvement (he still has other issues) and I feel so uplifted :D From experience, it could all turn on its head tomorrow, but tonight, I shall enjoy a respite from the worst of it all nevertheless .....

I do hope it is equally positive in all your neck of the woods :)

Goodnight and thanks for all the advice as so much appreciated :wave:
Click to expand...


Hi Cara - you were up late last night, or early this morning!


Common wisdom suggests cleaning the litter trays with a 1% solution of bleach on days 21 and 28 of treatment, but I have yet to hear a vet give out that advice.

Spores from infected urine remain in environment for one month

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html


I am glad he's had a better day :wave:
 
'Head in hands ..... and a deep sigh' .. Teddy is doing puddles again.

Doubt much point in carrying on Baytril? What do you think? Especially as he hates it.

Okay, I really have give myself a shake and look at the positives and there are some .. Teddy is perfectly happy in himself :love:

What next? His blood test was 13th April and the urine, I think a little before that. Is now a good time to discuss with vet a repeat? As has been said, I still don't know what the cause of all this is.

Or, I am thinking of suggesting the medication discussed earlier, 'Phenylpropanolamine'. Can she detect anything to indicate it might help on his x-rays etc.
 
MightyMax said:
Hi Cara - you were up late last night, or early this morning!


Common wisdom suggests cleaning the litter trays with a 1% solution of bleach on days 21 and 28 of treatment, but I have yet to hear a vet give out that advice.

Spores from infected urine remain in environment for one month

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-2/e-cuniculi.html


I am glad he's had a better day :wave:
Click to expand...

Actually both. Up late and up early .. not in work today thankfully and will be having a 'power nap' at some stage!
 
And just to be a rebel, I am sure, Teddy will not entertain his Metacam on toast and is turning his nose up at his Panacur on toast also .. my tried and tested methods of medicating both :roll: So no Metacam this morning unfortunately.

Perhaps his daily doses of Baytril have put the spanner in the works, darn it :(
 
cara said:
Actually both. Up late and up early .. not in work today thankfully and will be having a 'power nap' at some stage!
Click to expand...


Me too :lol:

I went to bed at 1.30am and up at 5.30am to take a very poorly rabbit to in-patient specialist.

The things we do for them! x
 
Oh my word! I am a terrible early morning person. For early appointments etc., I spend so much time the night before, worrying about the early start, that I cannot sleep!

How many rabbits do you care for at the moment? Hope it was a productive appointment?

Also, wondering with the flurry of posts from me at the moment :oops:, I am wondering if you spotted number 63 or had any thoughts?
 
cara said:
Oh my word! I am a terrible early morning person. For early appointments etc., I spend so much time the night before, worrying about the early start, that I cannot sleep!

How many rabbits do you care for at the moment? Hope it was a productive appointment?

Also, wondering with the flurry of posts from me at the moment :oops:, I am wondering if you spotted number 63 or had any thoughts?
Click to expand...


Yes I find it very difficult to be up early and functioning on 4 hours sleep (or rest even)

I shall look at your post and give it my best (might be a bit later though!). I'm taking calls regarding my boy who has suspected liver lobe torsion at the moment, so apologies if I'm a bit distracted. We love this boy to bits and he's very poorly and we really don't want to lose him.

He won't be coming home yet, but thanks for your wishes :)
 
cara said:
'Head in hands ..... and a deep sigh' .. Teddy is doing puddles again.

Doubt much point in carrying on Baytril? What do you think? Especially as he hates it.

Okay, I really have give myself a shake and look at the positives and there are some .. Teddy is perfectly happy in himself :love:

What next? His blood test was 13th April and the urine, I think a little before that. Is now a good time to discuss with vet a repeat? As has been said, I still don't know what the cause of all this is.

Or, I am thinking of suggesting the medication discussed earlier, 'Phenylpropanolamine'. Can she detect anything to indicate it might help on his x-rays etc.
Click to expand...

Repeat bloods may be useful given that Molly suggested that Teddy my be bordering on renal failure. A repeat test would give an indication of as to whether his renal function is deteriorating further. If another urine test were to be taken the a sample obtained by cystocentesis may provide a more accurate result

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...div_TechniquesRabbit/Cystocentesis_Rabbit.htm

I would speak with the Vet about trying the Phenylpropanolamine, although the Vet may want to await the blood test and urinalysis results first.

An Xray would show if there is any evidence of bladder sludge/stones and/or kidney stones.
 
cara said:
'Head in hands ..... and a deep sigh' .. Teddy is doing puddles again.

Doubt much point in carrying on Baytril? What do you think? Especially as he hates it.

Okay, I really have give myself a shake and look at the positives and there are some .. Teddy is perfectly happy in himself :love:

What next? His blood test was 13th April and the urine, I think a little before that. Is now a good time to discuss with vet a repeat? As has been said, I still don't know what the cause of all this is.

Or, I am thinking of suggesting the medication discussed earlier, 'Phenylpropanolamine'. Can she detect anything to indicate it might help on his x-rays etc.
Click to expand...


Right, I have a small gap in bunny updates so I shall attempt a reply Cara :)

I don't know whether Teddy is insured, or whether cost is no object, but if I could afford to, I would repeat the blood test. It will at least show the direction that things are going in, or if they are pretty stable right now.

Testing a urine sample would also be a good idea. I would suggest the vet manually expressed the bladder:

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...iquesRabbit/ManualExpressionBladderRabbit.htm

I personally wouldn't go for cystocentesis as I've known of the damage it can potentially cause, and Teddy doesn't need more problems!

Sending the urine off to the lab would be my preferred option :)
 
MightyMax said:
Yes I find it very difficult to be up early and functioning on 4 hours sleep (or rest even)

I shall look at your post and give it my best (might be a bit later though!). I'm taking calls regarding my boy who has suspected liver lobe torsion at the moment, so apologies if I'm a bit distracted. We love this boy to bits and he's very poorly and we really don't want to lose him.

He won't be coming home yet, but thanks for your wishes :)
Click to expand...

Oh no, so sorry :( You must concentrate fully on your your own rabbits at times like this. Fingers tightly crossed.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Repeat bloods may be useful given that Molly suggested that Teddy my be bordering on renal failure. A repeat test would give an indication of as to whether his renal function is deteriorating further. If another urine test were to be taken the a sample obtained by cystocentesis may provide a more accurate result

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...div_TechniquesRabbit/Cystocentesis_Rabbit.htm

I would speak with the Vet about trying the Phenylpropanolamine, although the Vet may want to await the blood test and urinalysis results first.

An Xray would show if there is any evidence of bladder sludge/stones and/or kidney stones.
Click to expand...

Thanks for reply.

Teddy has had an x-ray around the same time as bloods, urine etc, which didn't indicate anything untoward other than Molly's comment that there might be a suspicion of renal failure in the future (something like that). He has had bladder sludge in the recent past.

He has actually improved from say, 3 ish months ago, when he had the awful sludge and was peeing like a fountain :oops:

Will email vet with suggestions from this thread, thank you :wave:
 
MightyMax said:
Right, I have a small gap in bunny updates so I shall attempt a reply Cara :)

I don't know whether Teddy is insured, or whether cost is no object, but if I could afford to, I would repeat the blood test. It will at least show the direction that things are going in, or if they are pretty stable right now.

Testing a urine sample would also be a good idea. I would suggest the vet manually expressed the bladder:

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...iquesRabbit/ManualExpressionBladderRabbit.htm

I personally wouldn't go for cystocentesis as I've known of the damage it can potentially cause, and Teddy doesn't need more problems!

Sending the urine off to the lab would be my preferred option :)
Click to expand...

No, no insurance and like most of us, money is always an issue. But ... I will do what needs to be done.

Thank's Mighty-Max :wave:
 
Sorry for yet another post,

Teddy has been quite dry this afternoon :) Am once again dithering whether to do another week on Baytril (Jack's-jane suggested another week if improved). Cannot say for sure improved, but 'think' he might be?

Is this enough to request another week though?
 
cara said:
Sorry for yet another post,

Teddy has been quite dry this afternoon :) Am once again dithering whether to do another week on Baytril (Jack's-jane suggested another week if improved). Cannot say for sure improved, but 'think' he might be?

Is this enough to request another week though?
Click to expand...

I'd run it by the Vet and see what she thinks. With UTIs it is not at all unusual for abx treatment to need to be continued for 14+ days as often the core of infection is deep within the bladder wall.

As Teddy has a history of bladder sludge I do wonder if there may be some recurrence of this. The intermittent wetness is something that often occurs in cases of 'bladder sludge'.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
I'd run it by the Vet and see what she thinks. With UTIs it is not at all unusual for abx treatment to need to be continued for 14+ days as often the core of infection is deep within the bladder wall.

As Teddy has a history of bladder sludge I do wonder if there may be some recurrence of this. The intermittent wetness is something that often occurs in cases of 'bladder sludge'.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jane, I will see what the vet says. Always helpful to have another opinion from here as well :)
 
cara said:
No, no insurance and like most of us, money is always an issue. But ... I will do what needs to be done.

Thank's Mighty-Max :wave:
Click to expand...


You're welcome :wave:

Regarding little Teddy, I would ask the vet about the Baytril. Do you have a good vet? Mine listens to me and takes on board everything I suggest and checks it out. She also doesn't charge me the earth for doing so!!
 
I think we perhaps all have one vet at a particular practice who we prefer (if we are lucky). Generally she is open to suggestions and if unsure about something I have said, then she will do a bit of research and also seek a more expert opinion if necessary.

I have communicated via email which can be quite helpful at times as well. There is one vet there who I would avoid, simply because I don't feel he is particularly a rabbity person! And he is not overly a people person, at least with me. Maybe if I had a dog etc, he may well be the person I went to in that instance!

So the vets have just called me back and they have another weeks Baytril for me. Teddy will be delighted (not) as will my husband as he is the one to administer it :lol:
 
Teddy is still very much up and down.

Made an appointment yesterday and actually wondered if I should cancel, because he seemed quite well and dry. However, my vet is concerned that overall, we haven't made progress. Somewhere in the conversation, in my recollection of the consultation, I think I recall references to 'end of life' (though not explicitly). I was very despondent.

Her suggestion is that I take Teddy to see Molly Varga (Rutland House) for an expert consultation which I am very up for.

This morning has not been a good one. Teddy was wet and shifting a little, from foot to foot. But again, he was eager for the doors to be opened and to have breakfast. In himself, he is ok. But he does have the very awkward looking leg (which I had told the vet, but it must have been the first time she has seen it, as she exclaimed 'look at his leg' yesterday). Although the awkward leg is not apparent when he is on the move, it can sit awkwardly outside his body, if you like, when he is static.

I am monitoring Teddy, but his pee problem do seem to deteriorate overnight and then improves over the course of the day. I will see how he gets on today.

So all in all, not exactly brilliant.

MightyMax, how is your rabbit with the liver problem?

Jack's-Jane, those puppy pads are a godsend. Much better shape than the ones I was using - yours are oval, rather than my square (ish) ones, which sit perfectly on his sitting platform :wave:
 
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