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Is it time to give up?

S

Sasha34

New Kit
Bit of background, we have a 5 yr old male rabbit that recently lost his bonded partner (2 months ago). He is an outdoor rabbit with the run of the garden during the day. He has been neutered.
We recently got a spayed female from a rescue and have been trying to bond them, it's three weeks today since we had her.

It started well, they would meet in the bonding pen in neutral territory in the bathroom. Initially they ignored each other, but they gradually interacted and then he started grooming her. She's very demanding and is always putting her head down to be groomed. We started swapping the litter trays over to mix smells and then started swapping their sleeping areas every other night. We worked up to them spending time together in the indoor pen happily and then also sleeping overnight in there, so they were no longer being separated at all.

The problem started when they moved outdoors, we used the pen again for a few days and monitored them and then last week we opened the pen up for them to have the run of the garden. That first afternoon they were fine, so they were let out again the next morning. Big mistake. They had a fight, and both their fur was all over the garden. I took them indoors and kept them selerated in the pen. Later that day I swapped them into the others pen and then later opened it up again for them to mix. Initially they were fine, but then they had a fight, more fur pulled out. This has happened twice more since then. We can't trust them on their own together and so have to be separated most of the time.

We are now at a crossroads at to whether we give up and it's failed, or can anyone suggest where to go from here. It has been left open that she can return to the rescue if the bonding fails, but she's a sweet little rabbit and we feel really sad to let her go 😒.

Just looking for advise from others on whether it has failed or if they could still bond? She has quite a few little scratches and bald patches now as well 😩.
 
Sasha34 said:
Bit of background, we have a 5 yr old male rabbit that recently lost his bonded partner (2 months ago). He is an outdoor rabbit with the run of the garden during the day. He has been neutered.
We recently got a spayed female from a rescue and have been trying to bond them, it's three weeks today since we had her.

It started well, they would meet in the bonding pen in neutral territory in the bathroom. Initially they ignored each other, but they gradually interacted and then he started grooming her. She's very demanding and is always putting her head down to be groomed. We started swapping the litter trays over to mix smells and then started swapping their sleeping areas every other night. We worked up to them spending time together in the indoor pen happily and then also sleeping overnight in there, so they were no longer being separated at all.

The problem started when they moved outdoors, we used the pen again for a few days and monitored them and then last week we opened the pen up for them to have the run of the garden. That first afternoon they were fine, so they were let out again the next morning. Big mistake. They had a fight, and both their fur was all over the garden. I took them indoors and kept them selerated in the pen. Later that day I swapped them into the others pen and then later opened it up again for them to mix. Initially they were fine, but then they had a fight, more fur pulled out. This has happened twice more since then. We can't trust them on their own together and so have to be separated most of the time.

We are now at a crossroads at to whether we give up and it's failed, or can anyone suggest where to go from here. It has been left open that she can return to the rescue if the bonding fails, but she's a sweet little rabbit and we feel really sad to let her go ��.

Just looking for advise from others on whether it has failed or if they could still bond? She has quite a few little scratches and bald patches now as well ��.
Click to expand...

How long ago was the Doe spayed ? How long did you leave them together in the initial bonding area ?

You may find these links useful

http://www.actionforrabbits.co.uk/bonding.html

http://www.fatfluffs.com/info/bonding/

and this book :

https://shop.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/product/bonding-rabbits-by-fiona-campbell/
 
I think your mistake was to move them outside and then extend their area to the whole garden - unless you are very lucky it takes several weeks for a strong bond to develop. The garden had been his territory - so you'd taken them from a neutral area indoors to a new neutral area outside and then to his territory in a very short space of time.
I would take them away from each other completely - no mixing or seeing/smelling each other for a couple of weeks and then start again, with neutral territory etc. ... but take things very slowly, which will pay in the long term. Bonds can be very fragile to begin with. Have you read the bonding sticky (advice thread) which gives some very useful information. It really is a time for patience.

ETA I see I have cross-posted with J-J
 
Jack's-Jane said:
How long ago was the Doe spayed ? How long did you leave them together in the initial bonding area ?

You may find these links useful

http://www.actionforrabbits.co.uk/bonding.html

http://www.fatfluffs.com/info/bonding/

and this book :

https://shop.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/product/bonding-rabbits-by-fiona-campbell/
Click to expand...

Thanks I just had a look at the websites now. The doe was spayed 2 months ago. They spent a week in the initial bonding area of the bathroom and then the following week and a half they spent in the kitchen, which is where she had been sleeping etc, and they'd been there happily through the day and night.
 
Babsie said:
I think your mistake was to move them outside and then extend their area to the whole garden - unless you are very lucky it takes several weeks for a strong bond to develop. The garden had been his territory - so you'd taken them from a neutral area indoors to a new neutral area outside and then to his territory in a very short space of time.
I would take them away from each other completely - no mixing or seeing/smelling each other for a couple of weeks and then start again, with neutral territory etc. ... but take things very slowly, which will pay in the long term. Bonds can be very fragile to begin with. Have you read the bonding sticky (advice thread) which gives some very useful information. It really is a time for patience.

ETA I see I have cross-posted with J-J
Click to expand...
Yes I agree that was definitely a bad move. I am completely new to all this and we have been taking direction from the rescue where we had her. But I've read around the issue since that fight in the garden and can see it was a bad move. Just such a shame as they were doing so well together until then.

Can I ask what the reason is to keep them apart for a few weeks?
I tried just putting them back on neutral territory together in the pen in the bathroom for half hour this morning with me sat there watching and they were lovely, he groomed her a few times and they sat next to each other touching.

It's just been upsetting to see them fight and I guess we needed to know whether it is worth continuing or if they are not a match.
 
Sasha34 said:
Bit of background, we have a 5 yr old male rabbit that recently lost his bonded partner (2 months ago). He is an outdoor rabbit with the run of the garden during the day. He has been neutered.
We recently got a spayed female from a rescue and have been trying to bond them, it's three weeks today since we had her.

It started well, they would meet in the bonding pen in neutral territory in the bathroom. Initially they ignored each other, but they gradually interacted and then he started grooming her. She's very demanding and is always putting her head down to be groomed. We started swapping the litter trays over to mix smells and then started swapping their sleeping areas every other night. We worked up to them spending time together in the indoor pen happily and then also sleeping overnight in there, so they were no longer being separated at all.

The problem started when they moved outdoors, we used the pen again for a few days and monitored them and then last week we opened the pen up for them to have the run of the garden. That first afternoon they were fine, so they were let out again the next morning. Big mistake. They had a fight, and both their fur was all over the garden. I took them indoors and kept them selerated in the pen. Later that day I swapped them into the others pen and then later opened it up again for them to mix. Initially they were fine, but then they had a fight, more fur pulled out. This has happened twice more since then. We can't trust them on their own together and so have to be separated most of the time.

We are now at a crossroads at to whether we give up and it's failed, or can anyone suggest where to go from here. It has been left open that she can return to the rescue if the bonding fails, but she's a sweet little rabbit and we feel really sad to let her go 😒.

Just looking for advise from others on whether it has failed or if they could still bond? She has quite a few little scratches and bald patches now as well 😩.
Click to expand...


sorry you're having problems. It is the hardest time of year to bond bunnies, as even though neutered/spayed, their hormones begin to play up.
It's known as 'Spring Fever'.


I gave these articles to a friend, who found them useful:

http://rabbit.org/the-most-important-word-in-bonding-is-patience/

http://rabbit.org/introducing-rabbits-in-a-group-situation/

http://www.cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/bonding-bunnies/ (good for pair bonding)


The main key to successful bonding, apart from a very calm and relaxed owner, is patience :)
 
Sasha34 said:
Yes I agree that was definitely a bad move. I am completely new to all this and we have been taking direction from the rescue where we had her. But I've read around the issue since that fight in the garden and can see it was a bad move. Just such a shame as they were doing so well together until then.

Can I ask what the reason is to keep them apart for a few weeks?
I tried just putting them back on neutral territory together in the pen in the bathroom for half hour this morning with me sat there watching and they were lovely, he groomed her a few times and they sat next to each other touching.

It's just been upsetting to see them fight and I guess we needed to know whether it is worth continuing or if they are not a match.
Click to expand...

Is there an area that is neutral and that can also be used 24/7 for possibly a few weeks ? I doubt having Bunnies in the bathroom 24/7 is practical ! You may need to sleep next to the bonding area, so that's another consideration. New bonds at this time of year can be especially challenging as even neutered Rabbits can be effected by 'Spring Fever'. I obviously can't give you any guarantees, but from what you have said I think having the Rabbits in a small neutral area for much longer and not separating them unless a serious fight kicks off may mean that eventually the bond will work out. Bonding really can take a considerable amount of time. Occasionally we can strike lucky and have a bonding that is 'love at first sight'. But IME that is the exception rather than the rule. Bonding needs patience, nerves of steel and copious amounts of Tea, Cake......................or GIN !

Good luck x
 
Babsie said:
I think your mistake was to move them outside and then extend their area to the whole garden - unless you are very lucky it takes several weeks for a strong bond to develop. The garden had been his territory - so you'd taken them from a neutral area indoors to a new neutral area outside and then to his territory in a very short space of time.
I would take them away from each other completely - no mixing or seeing/smelling each other for a couple of weeks and then start again, with neutral territory etc. ... but take things very slowly, which will pay in the long term. Bonds can be very fragile to begin with. Have you read the bonding sticky (advice thread) which gives some very useful information. It really is a time for patience.

ETA I see I have cross-posted with J-J
Click to expand...


I would agree with Babsie :D

Restricting the area is often the key, at least to begin with.

I have done hundreds of bonds over the last 25 years, for both myself and other people. I always start off the same way, in a small area. One big litter tray.

Once the rabbits are comfortable in that area, you can extend it - some people do this little by little. A bonding between male and female usually works and is a fairly safe bet. The area must be neutral - not somewhere that either of them have been. It doesn't matter though, if other rabbits have used that area - just not the two bondees :)

Giving them too much space too soon is challenging ....

And as I mentioned in my first post - patience is the key to a good bond :D
 
MightyMax Am I correct with my advice to separate them completely for a couple of weeks, out of sight, smell and sound of each other, to give things chance to settle before starting again? Please say if you don't agree.
 
Babsie said:
MightyMax Am I correct with my advice to separate them completely for a couple of weeks, out of sight, smell and sound of each other, to give things chance to settle before starting again? Please say if you don't agree.
Click to expand...


Yes I do agree with you Babsie. Though I would probably cut it down to one week as that's a long time in bunny land. Two weeks would do no harm though and if that feels more comfortable - do that :)

The main thing is the neutral area, not too big (though I don't do incredibly small!) and try not to get upset by what's going on between them. Only intervene when things look really dangerous - wearing gauntlets to separate.

Otherwise use a broom, or a saucepan and wooden spoon to distract. Or food - I use a lot of herbs, grass, rose leaves etc ...
 
Hi it's not going well. I separated them as suggested for two weeks and now they are worse than before. As soon as I put them in the neutral bonding pen they start fighting ��
 
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