Should I persist?

Hi again,

So I actually found a bonder in Ulverston who my cousin had used and whilst not that convenient I was feeling overwhelmed and so I dropped my buns off 10 days ago. The lady had had lots of experience and I felt so much better knowing they were in good hands.

Quick history - have had Stanley for 3 years he was bonded to my old rabbit Millie who died in November. I got Laurel on new years eve, kept them separate whilst she was neutered then started introducing them in the bathroom. She hadn't been with another bun before and was a bit nippy towards Stan when he didn't start grooming her immediately, this made Stan move away from her. They would flop out near each other, eat, but eventually Stan would try to hump Laurel and she didn't like that and they would start spinning so I always stopped them before anything got out of hand.

I've heard back from the bonder and she feels Stan just doesn't like Laurel. There is no aggression between them but when together Stan does his best not to even look at Laurel. Is that strange? He'll bury his head in the corner of the run. Yet they'll sit together in a carrier if she puts one in with them.

I'm really confused and upset as I can't really have 2 single buns. I'm collecting them on Friday and yesterday I adapted Stan's shed so it is split in two. My plan is to have them both in there and keep swapping which side they are on and hope in time Stan realises that Laurel isn't too bad.

The bonder runs a rescue as well and tried Stan with another girl just out of interest and he took to her straight away so it's not that he wants to be on his own. She even offered to swap Laurel for another bun but I just can't do that, not yet anyway. I love her already. I guess I shouldn't have got attached before knowing if the bonding would be successful, but with her living in the house for 3 months we've already spent a lot of time together and the thought of giving her up makes me feel sick. Obviously Stan has to stay as it really wouldn't be fair to kick him out for being a moody sod.

So, my question is, do you think I am doing the right thing trying them in the shed for longer? Or am I going to cause more stress for one/both of them? I just feel if there is no aggression I should keep trying.

Original post here:
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?463579-Looking-for-a-bonder!

It's difficult to advise without being able to see what is happening, but if he prefers another rabbit then maybe he is voting with his feet? How about adopting the bun he liked to have with him as a pair outside, and have Laurel inside as a house bunny, with or without a partner? I think outdoor bunnies should always be kept as at least a pair, otherwise they would be lonely.

Zoobec said:

It's difficult to advise without being able to see what is happening, but if he prefers another rabbit then maybe he is voting with his feet? How about adopting the bun he liked to have with him as a pair outside, and have Laurel inside as a house bunny, with or without a partner? I think outdoor bunnies should always be kept as at least a pair, otherwise they would be lonely.

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I definitely agree about keeping in pairs, I really hate seeing him roaming the garden on his own and I thought as he was used to having company he would jump at the chance to have another girl around. He is free range all day, I wonder if they would both share the garden without problems during the day and then have their own 'bedrooms' at night?

I did consider adopting the other bun but it's a bit quick to make a decision like that. I don't want to make a bigger problem. Our house isn't really suitable for a house bun as much as I'd love one. We managed as a short term solution but expected them to be together by now

Sorry you have this dilemma - bunny bonding can be super stressful. It does sound strange a bunny trying to avoid looking at another. Whilst nobody can really answer for you I'd be tempted to persist. Sometimes bunnies that take forever to bond can have the closest relationship in the end - my girls took many months but couldn't be closer now. For outside bunnies I feel companionship even if not the lovey dovey kind is hugely re-assurring. If they aren't being aggressive I'd give them more time

I agree with j&b - worth continuing. Have you found that book helpful?
As for them sharing the garden when they are not bonded - my experience with this was horrendous - one rabbit almost killed the other. I was so naive at that time that thought it would be ok.

joey&boo said:

Sorry you have this dilemma - bunny bonding can be super stressful. It does sound strange a bunny trying to avoid looking at another. Whilst nobody can really answer for you I'd be tempted to persist. Sometimes bunnies that take forever to bond can have the closest relationship in the end - my girls took many months but couldn't be closer now. For outside bunnies I feel companionship even if not the lovey dovey kind is hugely re-assurring. If they aren't being aggressive I'd give them more time

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It is bizarre. I had let Stan meet Laurel from outside her pen prior to her being neutered but then decided to get her done before continuing and he was so excited, running around the outside of her pen and buzzing. I'll have to film his reaction when I get them back home.

Babsie said:

I agree with j&b - worth continuing. Have you found that book helpful?
As for them sharing the garden when they are not bonded - my experience with this was horrendous - one rabbit almost killed the other. I was so naive at that time that thought it would be ok.

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The book was good in as much as it showed there are so many various ways the bonding can go and how they might react to each other. OMG! That's awful! I certainly don't want to encourage a fight.

My gut is telling me to keep trying. The bonder mentioned something called 'flooding' which I'd never heard before. Where one rabbit gives up resisting the other but they aren't happy. Any thoughts on this?

Rachel WD said:

It is bizarre. I had let Stan meet Laurel from outside her pen prior to her being neutered but then decided to get her done before continuing and he was so excited, running around the outside of her pen and buzzing. I'll have to film his reaction when I get them back home.



The book was good in as much as it showed there are so many various ways the bonding can go and how they might react to each other. OMG! That's awful! I certainly don't want to encourage a fight.

My gut is telling me to keep trying. The bonder mentioned something called 'flooding' which I'd never heard before. Where one rabbit gives up resisting the other but they aren't happy. Any thoughts on this?

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I've not heard the term but the concept sounds plausible. Like with people, some you like instantly, some grow on you over time. I think you'll be best placed to judge their behaviour once they are back home, you'll know if they are happy or not. IMO 10 days is too soon to write a non aggressive pair off, especially when it sounds like its in everybuns interests to make it work

I'm glad you said that as I thought it was too soon to write them off as well but not being an expert I didn't want to comment.

They were in a divided pen Saturday til Wednesday. Thursday she put them together for intervals and by Sunday basically said it was a lost cause. So not even 10 days.

Rachel WD said:

I'm glad you said that as I thought it was too soon to write them off as well but not being an expert I didn't want to comment.

They were in a divided pen Saturday til Wednesday. Thursday she put them together for intervals and by Sunday basically said it was a lost cause. So not even 10 days.

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I'm no expert either but far from it. Your instincts seem sensible though, I'd follow them. Let us know how it goes & good luck

I wonder whether she simply didn't have time to monitor them closely for any length of time, so 'gave up' when the bonding wasn't instant? I've heard (read) people on here say that, rather than those 'date' sessions, once you start bonding you should stick with it, keeping them supervised, and sleeping next to them if necessary!

Have a broom with you so you can separate them if it gets really nasty.

Babsie said:

Have a broom with you so you can separate them if it gets really nasty.

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& a bottle of gin / rum / vodka in case it gets stressful. Wine & beer aren't strong enough & mean too many visits to the loo

joey&boo said:

& a bottle of gin / rum / vodka in case it gets stressful. Wine & beer aren't strong enough & mean too many visits to the loo

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Absolutely - best advice yet!

Hahahaha thank you for the fantastic advice! I will shop for booze and brooms x

Rachel WD said:

Hahahaha thank you for the fantastic advice! I will shop for booze and brooms x

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What time do you want us? Bear in mind I have to come from Hampshire, so will probably need to stay the night (and not in the bath with j&b and the bunnies).

......... and MightyM may be willing to come and help, too ...

Babsie said:

......... and MightyM may be willing to come and help, too ...

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Absolutely and definitely!

Bonding, boozing and any other 'B' word you can think of

I collected them yesterday, I had missed them both so much! Got them home and into the divided shed, they were both interested in being there, no aggression through the bars. I was giving Stan a stroke when noticed a big scabby lump on his bum, did some further investigation and there are small wounds on his ears and his back. I feel so sorry for him. It's no wonder he was not keen on bonding with Laurel. I've messaged the bonder asking if they were monitored the whole time as I can't believe someone wouldn't have noticed this happening. She hasn't replied yet.

I feel so guilty, I sent poor Stan away and he got hurt

Does this mean it's game over? I had planned on keeping them in the divided shed for a week or so and booking some time off work to do proper bonding myself.

Just as an extra bit, Stan seems very interested in Laurel now, lots of grunting, wee flicking and trying to mush his face through the dividing grids to get to her. She has started putting her head down at the divider for him to groom her and not nipping his nose which I think is a huge step!

Rachel WD said:

Just as an extra bit, Stan seems very interested in Laurel now, lots of grunting, wee flicking and trying to mush his face through the dividing grids to get to her. She has started putting her head down at the divider for him to groom her and not nipping his nose which I think is a huge step!

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sounds positive No don't give up, I'm feeling less inspired by the bunny bonder as time goes on. Did she reply about the wounds?