How do I identify if my male rabbit is ready for breeding

Please help me im new to this

I wouldn't personally know, I don't know if anyone on here could/would advise. Most of us on here are pro rescue and know that there are far too many rabbits in rescue waiting for homes to consider breeding.

Sorry, but he's never going to be suitable for breeding. It sounds like you don't know the breed or genetic history of your rabbit so he can't be used to breed from. It's very important to choose a male rabbit that your know the medical and genetic history of - who their parents and grandparents are - otherwise you risk problems like heart disease, misaligned teeth that overgrown, deformed babies etc. It's just like dog breeding you need pedigrees and information on what genetic illnesses they are carrying.

Tamsin said:

Sorry, but he's never going to be suitable for breeding. It sounds like you don't know the breed or genetic history of your rabbit so he can't be used to breed from. It's very important to choose a male rabbit that your know the medical and genetic history of - who their parents and grandparents are - otherwise you risk problems like heart disease, misaligned teeth that overgrown, deformed babies etc. It's just like dog breeding you need pedigrees and information on what genetic illnesses they are carrying.

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And even with all the appropriate paperwork and background etc it's no guarantee of health. I've had two rabbits in the last six months that have had severe dental issues despite having a proven genetic heritage.

You can also apply it to dog. Our male rottie comes from a line of pedigree workers. Perfect health throughout the blood line.

He has serious joint issues, skin problems etc.

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Once you've neutered him, he is ready for breeding

dumblepaws said:

Once you've neutered him, he is ready for breeding

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So, there you have it. Only genetically perfect rabbits, dogs etc should ever be bred. And all that without knowing the history of the OPs rabbits. Now if we extend that to human beings we get....oh dear.

CrispyClaret said:

So, there you have it. Only genetically perfect rabbits, dogs etc should ever be bred. And all that without knowing the history of the OPs rabbits. Now if we extend that to human beings we get....oh dear.

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The OP also posted on another thread asking what breed we thought her buck was as she didn't know herself, so obviously she doesn't know his background.

How many owners, including breeders who merrily cross all sorts of rabbits, can actually tell you the parentage and medical history of their rabbits going back 2 or 3 generations? Genetics will always throw up some weird and not not necessarily nice permutations, but it is pot luck without a full blown genetic assay on potential parents.
Ok, I don't advocate breeding absolute horrors togther but you have no real idea what the offspring will be. Have a look at the pictures of my two, they are sisters, do they have the same shape, colour, hair length etc? No, one is even 2/3rds the size of the other and yet has the bigger appetite.

Zoobec said:

The OP also posted on another thread asking what breed we thought her buck was as she didn't know herself, so obviously she doesn't know his background.

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And two posters on here have pets with less than ideal health from verified lineage. Do not forget that rabbits as pets are relatively a recent thing, in the past they were bred for fur and/or the dining table. All your lops, giants, dwarves, long haired varieties are all from selectively breeding for visual appeal. You could even argue that their lifespan is unnatural, in the wild, very few bunnies are more than a year old.

The OP didn't know the breed, therefore it's not a big assumption that they know nothing about the parents (future grandparents). Whilst knowing a history doesn't rule out genetic problems it gives the breeder the opportunity to reduce (and in many cases avoid) them. For example knowing whether there is a dwarfing gene in the male and female line can make it possible to avoid peanuts (babies with the double dwarfing gene that generally die within a few weeks of birth). A verified lineage isn't a guarantee when you buy because not every breeder will make use of the information they have available to them. Some will put up with a few dead kits or bad health because they particularly like the conformation of the live ones (longer ears or smaller size).

When considering breeding you have a choice, you can prioritise health or looks. Whichever you pick will mean sometimes you make a compromise on the other. It's something dog breeders are just realising the consequences of and trying to back track and breed health back in - a much harder job than selecting for it in the first place.

On lifespan, I would argue the opposite. We know from wild rabbits that live in captivity and in isolated colonies without predators that the potential lifespan of a rabbit is easily 8-10 years (I lost my own hand reared wild rabbit at 9 years old a few months ago). The fact that many pet rabbits have a lifespan closer to 5 years is a sign that bad breeding has screwed their genetic health leading to more susceptibility to disease and conformation (e.g. skull shapes and extreme sizes - both small and large) that have reduced their potential lifespan. As pet owners, long life and good health is something we prioritise and should be encouraging in breeders.

Tamsin said:

The OP didn't know the breed, therefore it's not a big assumption that they know nothing about the parents (future grandparents). Whilst knowing a history doesn't rule out genetic problems it gives the breeder the opportunity to reduce (and in many cases avoid) them. For example knowing whether there is a dwarfing gene in the male and female line can make it possible to avoid peanuts (babies with the double dwarfing gene that generally die within a few weeks of birth). A verified lineage isn't a guarantee when you buy because not every breeder will make use of the information they have available to them. Some will put up with a few dead kits or bad health because they particularly like the conformation of the live ones (longer ears or smaller size).

When considering breeding you have a choice, you can prioritise health or looks. Whichever you pick will mean sometimes you make a compromise on the other. It's something dog breeders are just realising the consequences of and trying to back track and breed health back in - a much harder job than selecting for it in the first place.

On lifespan, I would argue the opposite. We know from wild rabbits that live in captivity and in isolated colonies without predators that the potential lifespan of a rabbit is easily 8-10 years (I lost my own hand reared wild rabbit at 9 years old a few months ago). The fact that many pet rabbits have a lifespan closer to 5 years is a sign that bad breeding has screwed their genetic health leading to more susceptibility to disease and conformation (e.g. skull shapes and extreme sizes - both small and large) that have reduced their potential lifespan. As pet owners, long life and good health is something we prioritise and should be encouraging in breeders.

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With all due respect, a wild rabbit brought up outside it's native environment will or should have a longer life span. But it is no longer wild, it is of wild stock. Isolated rabbits living without natural predators is again not the norm, yes rabbits do have natural potential to live longer but nature gets in the way. My point on longevity was for wild rabbits living in the wild with all the predations that brings. In human terms, would some members of the Royal Family have such long life spans if they had been brought up and lived a more "normal" life?
Breeders unfortunately fall into several categories and we have to take our chances when we buy from them, with as many pitfalls as buying from a petshop. Breeders have a different attitude as well, rabbits are stock, no matter how cute etc they are saleable goods.
We all aspire to our pets having long, happy and healthy lives. However there has to be a point where rational decisions are made that have to take sentimentality out of the equation. There are plenty of threads on here that to me read like cruelty in the extreme just because the bunny is loved, but love takes many forms and making the right decisions is one. Without pointing to anyone here I will use a personal example. My mother in law had a dog, multiple strokes left it blind, barely able to walk and with double incontinence. It lived like that for 3 years, bumping into furniture, unable to play and with nappies fastened on. All because it was loved!!

CrispyClaret said:

With all due respect, a wild rabbit brought up outside it's native environment will or should have a longer life span. But it is no longer wild, it is of wild stock. Isolated rabbits living without natural predators is again not the norm, yes rabbits do have natural potential to live longer but nature gets in the way. My point on longevity was for wild rabbits living in the wild with all the predations that brings. In human terms, would some members of the Royal Family have such long life spans if they had been brought up and lived a more "normal" life?

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I'm not disagreeing that the environment makes wild rabbits live shorter lives. But my point is breeding is about genetics (stock), the genetics of wild stock allow for a rabbit that can live in relative good health until 8-10 years. That many don't as they are killed earlier is an environmental factor not genetics. It's the same as historically many member of the royal family have died early - off with their heads - or lived longer (which I'm not sure is true) from their exceptional circumstances - both environmental factors.

If we take one rabbit from domestic stock and one rabbit from wild stock and put them in the same environment (protected from predators and with access to vet care) the wild stock rabbit is likely to live longer. That's genetics. Domestic rabbits are the same species as the European wild rabbit, therefore they have the same potential to live to 8-10 years. Breeders can't control the environment a rabbit lives in during their life but they can control genetics by selecting for health - by doing that they should be able to raise the life expectancy of a rabbit to at least 8-10 years. Possibly further as the environmental factors in the wild mean life expectancy isn't specifically selected for, rather good health.

We all aspire to our pets having long, happy and healthy lives. However there has to be a point where rational decisions are made that have to take sentimentality out of the equation. There are plenty of threads on here that to me read like cruelty in the extreme just because the bunny is loved, but love takes many forms and making the right decisions is one. Without pointing to anyone here I will use a personal example. My mother in law had a dog, multiple strokes left it blind, barely able to walk and with double incontinence. It lived like that for 3 years, bumping into furniture, unable to play and with nappies fastened on. All because it was loved!!

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I'm not sure what that's got to do with breeding. The aim of breeding should be to create a healthy animal with reduced susceptibility to disease. In other words to make it live a long and healthy life - the difference between a dog that has a stroke at 10 and one that has a stroke at 15. Some of the factors that cause stroke are genetic. What happens after a stroke in terms of medical intervention is nothing to do with breeding. When I talk about raising life expectancy with genetics, I'm talking about healthy life, a animal that is fit and well in old age, not extending lifespan with medical intervention and nursing.

So Tamsin, I'm trying to keep following you as I agree with what you're saying.

Could you let me know if this example is right:

Two rabbits - Both from same litter, same family history etc.

One is born in perfect health. It's used for breeding, and it's off spring follows with perfect health. Good teeth, nice coat etc.
The chances of a kit being born in bad health, from this line are probably 1 in 10,000 ? At a guess. However, the other is also bred from, but this one happens to have a mutant gene which has caused elongated ears, and misaligned teeth. Despite the dental issues, the breeder likes this new stocks ears and decides to breed in the hope that the ears will become a dominant gene.
Rabbit as 6 kits, 2 of which have the ears, but they too also have the dental issues. But, these kits with the long ears sell much better than the healthy 'boring kits'. So the breeder stops breeding the healthy kits and decides it still worth the risk and continues breeding from these new kits, until 100% of the litter born has the long ears.
This then raises the risk of birth defects such as dental disease due to genetics to around 1 in 5 kits.

Would this be about right?
Ultimately, the breeder should have chosen to continue breeding from the healthy line, but instead went for the unhealthy line.

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daphnephoebe said:

Would this be about right?
Ultimately, the breeder should have chosen to continue breeding from the healthy line, but instead went for the unhealthy line.

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Basically, but it's a lot more complicated as there are lots of different genes involved, some of which are recessive (you need a copy of the gene from both parents for it to be shown in the offspring). So a rabbit that looks healthy in the second generation from the long ears/bad teeth parent may carry the bed genes and they could effect their offspring or they may not depending who they are bred with - breeding with another rabbit with bad teeth or with close relative would increase the chance of the offspring having bad teeth.

That's why records from multiple generations and all the parents are important. The more generation clear the less likely there are bad genes being carried. Also often what you are breeding for isn't as well defined as yes/no - you might be breeding for a particularly fur type and later find that those same genes are passed along with increased risk of heart defects. It's complicated stuff, but breeders do already do this for some traits.

One health related gene rabbit breeders track already is the dwarfing gene, rabbits in dwarf breeds carry this, but breeding the wrong combination results in peanuts (with two copies of the dwarf gene) which only survive days/weeks. There is an explanation here: http://www.justrabbits.com/dwarf-rabbit.html it's a bit easier to follow as there are only a few combinations. In that case picking the right rabbits to breed together can have a big influence on the average life expectancy of the litter.

Thanks Tamsin. I done genetics at college when was VN but I've not had to apply it since then so good to refresh

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You probably know more than me then I think the most discussed genetics for rabbits is coat colour, dwarfing and rex fur type. There maybe more though - it's not something I've really dug on.