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Malocclusion - Oscar to have incisors out - another op

E

elizabethH

Warren Scout
I would be grateful for advice about Oscar, our Flemish Giant Cross. He is 5 and we have had him since he came from a local rescue at 5 months. He has generally had no health problems except EC just over 2 years ago which left him with a slight head tilt which gets worse if he is stressed. However, last September we found an abscess on his jaw which was successfully surgically removed and there is no sign that it has come back. The abscess was not associated with his teeth per se and he made a good recovery. The xrays and the inspection when he was under anaesthetic showed that his teeth were generally in good shape. We have been keeping a close eye on him though we pick himup as little as possible as it affects his head tilt and he gets quite stressed. On Christmas Eve decided that he wouldn't eat and we saw that he his incisors had grown out of alignment. After discussion with the emergency vet we decided to syringe feed him as necessary and he was booked for a dental last Wednesday. He had his top and bottom incisors burred short and with encouragement has been slowly eating more - we cut up everything and give him herbs etc - anything he will eat. While he is nearly back to normal his teeth are growing at an alarming rate and are still not grinding against each other as they should and he is now booked for another dental tomorrow. The vet has looked again at the xrays in September and last week and says they actually look OK with only v slight problems and little change over the 4 months. We discussed having his incisors out but our vet feels that it would be a high risk op for him.

We would welcome any thought on what to do next. If there was the possibility of having his incisors out we would either take him to Cambridge Vets where the abscess op was done or to Iain Cope in Newmarket who saw Oscar at CVG when he had his EC. The other problem is that the EC gave him liver damage and Iain said we should be wary about metacam but what are the alternatives for pain relief? Our vet is not keen on using opiates like tramadol.

Many thanks
 
Last edited:
elizabethH said:
I would be grateful for advice about Oscar, our Flemish Giant Cross. He is 5 and we have had him since he came from a local rescue at 5 months. He has generally had no health problems except EC just over 2 years ago which left him with a slight head tilt which gets worse if he is stressed. However, last September we found an abscess on his jaw which was successfully surgically removed and there is no sign that it has come back. The abscess was not associated with his teeth per se and he made a good recovery. The xrays and the inspection when he was under anaesthetic showed that his teeth were generally in good shape. We have been keeping a close eye on him though we pick himup as little as possible as it affects his head tilt and he gets quite stressed. On Christmas Eve decided that he wouldn't eat and we saw that he his incisors had grown out of alignment. After discussion with the emergency vet we decided to syringe feed him as necessary and he was booked for a dental last Wednesday. He had his top and bottom incisors burred short and with encouragement has been slowly eating more - we cut up everything and give him herbs etc - anything he will eat. While he is nearly back to normal his teeth are growing at an alarming rate and are still not grinding against each other as they should and he is now booked for another dental tomorrow. The vet has looked again at the xrays in September and last week and says they actually look OK with only v slight problems and little change over the 4 months. We discussed having his incisors out but our vet feels that it would be a high risk op for him.

We would welcome any thought on what to do next. If there was the possibility of having his incisors out we would either take him to Cambridge Vets where the abscess op was done or to Iain Cope in Newmarket who saw Oscar at CVG when he had his EC. The other problem is that the EC gave him liver damage and Iain said we should be wary about metacam but what are the alternatives for pain relief? Our vet is not keen on using opiates like tramadol.

Many thanks
Click to expand...


Hi Elizabeth

Nice to hear from you again :)

I would be inclined to take the incisors out, using someone like Iain Cope, or another vet who I would really trust.

Are you talking about pain from his incisors? If not, what would the painkillers be for?
 
MightyMax said:
Hi Elizabeth

Nice to hear from you again :)

I would be inclined to take the incisors out, using someone like Iain Cope, or another vet who I would really trust.

Are you talking about pain from his incisors? If not, what would the painkillers be for?
Click to expand...

Yes for pain following any dental op. At the moment he is eating v little himself and gets quite cross if you try and put stuff up to his face but he will more or less eat mushed up science selective from a spoon and it's less stressful than syringe feeding. I think he must be in pain again from his teeth as he is clearly hungry poor chap.
 
elizabethH said:
Yes for pain following any dental op. At the moment he is eating v little himself and gets quite cross if you try and put stuff up to his face but he will more or less eat mushed up science selective from a spoon and it's less stressful than syringe feeding. I think he must be in pain again from his teeth as he is clearly hungry poor chap.
Click to expand...


I've had so many rabbits who have had their incisors out I really believe it's a much better option than constant burring (which is stressful - and they have the pain)

Do consider it. Yes it's a big op, but in good hands it's a safe one :)
 
MightyMax said:
I've had so many rabbits who have had their incisors out I really believe it's a much better option than constant burring (which is stressful - and they have the pain)

Do consider it. Yes it's a big op, but in good hands it's a safe one :)
Click to expand...

Thank you. Oscar is quite a sensitive bun and there is no doubt that constant vet trips plus burring will stress him and possibly bring back the EC. After tomorrow I think we will probably see Iain or Lucy or Jill at CVG and see what they think. Any thoughts on pain relief?
 
elizabethH said:
Thank you. Oscar is quite a sensitive bun and there is no doubt that constant vet trips plus burring will stress him and possibly bring back the EC. After tomorrow I think we will probably see Iain or Lucy or Jill at CVG and see what they think. Any thoughts on pain relief?
Click to expand...


Not easy if you take Metacam and Tramadol out of the equation ... HMacU2 on here has had some success with buprenorphine, administered transmucosaly, but if your vet isn't a fan of opiates then that isn't good either.

Rock and hard place spring to mind.

I must say I had this dilemma recently and ended up (for a period of time, until I found a 'conventional' formula that worked) using alternatives, which the rabbit found manageable.

When the teeth are out, no more pain relief should be needed .. perhaps risk Metacam until then?
 
elizabethH said:
I would be grateful for advice about Oscar, our Flemish Giant Cross. He is 5 and we have had him since he came from a local rescue at 5 months. He has generally had no health problems except EC just over 2 years ago which left him with a slight head tilt which gets worse if he is stressed. However, last September we found an abscess on his jaw which was successfully surgically removed and there is no sign that it has come back. The abscess was not associated with his teeth per se and he made a good recovery. The xrays and the inspection when he was under anaesthetic showed that his teeth were generally in good shape. We have been keeping a close eye on him though we pick himup as little as possible as it affects his head tilt and he gets quite stressed. On Christmas Eve decided that he wouldn't eat and we saw that he his incisors had grown out of alignment. After discussion with the emergency vet we decided to syringe feed him as necessary and he was booked for a dental last Wednesday. He had his top and bottom incisors burred short and with encouragement has been slowly eating more - we cut up everything and give him herbs etc - anything he will eat. While he is nearly back to normal his teeth are growing at an alarming rate and are still not grinding against each other as they should and he is now booked for another dental tomorrow. The vet has looked again at the xrays in September and last week and says they actually look OK with only v slight problems and little change over the 4 months. We discussed having his incisors out but our vet feels that it would be a high risk op for him.

We would welcome any thought on what to do next. If there was the possibility of having his incisors out we would either take him to Cambridge Vets where the abscess op was done or to Iain Cope in Newmarket who saw Oscar at CVG when he had his EC. The other problem is that the EC gave him liver damage and Iain said we should be wary about metacam but what are the alternatives for pain relief? Our vet is not keen on using opiates like tramadol.

Many thanks
Click to expand...

I would seek an opinion from CVG re the Incisor extraction. They will also possibly be more informed about appropriate types of analgesia . I expect they would want to run another blood profile to see what his Liver function is like now (the Liver can repair itself in some cases) and also how his kidney function is doing (EC can effect the Kidneys). I expect CVG would want to take more Xrays too.

In the longterm it seems that Incisor extraction would be the best option, but only if your Bun is a suitable candidate for the procedure. I would have confidence in the opinion of CVG about this. Good luck xx
 
Jack's-Jane said:
I would seek an opinion from CVG re the Incisor extraction. They will also possibly be more informed about appropriate types of analgesia . I expect they would want to run another blood profile to see what his Liver function is like now (the Liver can repair itself in some cases) and also how his kidney function is doing (EC can effect the Kidneys). I expect CVG would want to take more Xrays too.

In the longterm it seems that Incisor extraction would be the best option, but only if your Bun is a suitable candidate for the procedure. I would have confidence in the opinion of CVG about this. Good luck xx
Click to expand...

Thanks Jane. I'm getting Oscar's liver and kidney functions muddled - it's compromised kidney function that he has. He is at our vets now waiting for his dental so each time the phone rings I jump a mile. After today I think we will def go to see Ian at Vets4Pets Newmarket or Lucy at CVG.
 
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elizabethH said:
Thanks Jane. I'm getting Oscar's liver and kidney functions muddled - it's compromised kidney function that he has. He is at our vets now waiting for his dental so each time the phone rings I jump a mile. After today I think we will def go to see Ian at Vets4Pets Newmarket or Lucy at CVG.
Click to expand...

I was assuming you meant kidney and not liver function - hence my comments :)

Good luck with the vets :D
 
elizabethH said:
Thanks Jane. I'm getting Oscar's liver and kidney functions muddled - it's compromised kidney function that he has. He is at our vets now waiting for his dental so each time the phone rings I jump a mile. After today I think we will def go to see Ian at Vets4Pets Newmarket or Lucy at CVG.
Click to expand...

I hope that you will soon hear from the Vets, waiting and worrying is awful x
 
Hi Elizabeth, how's Rupert?

As you know we've got a few incisorless buns at Rabbit Residence, sometimes it's the better option as regular dentals are so stressful for the rabbits. I'd have a chat with Iain regarding getting them removed and also regarding pain relief in the meantime.
 
tabithakat64 said:
Hi Elizabeth, how's Rupert?

As you know we've got a few incisorless buns at Rabbit Residence, sometimes it's the better option as regular dentals are so stressful for the rabbits. I'd have a chat with Iain regarding getting them removed and also regarding pain relief in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Do you have any single incisorless buns at the moment? :wave:
 
Oscar is back from the vets and had his tear ducts flushed as well as upper and lower incisors burred. He is being very picky about what he will eat but at least he is wolfing down carrot tops even if he looks at his beloved parsley and strawberry leaves as if we are trying to poison him. He has peed and pooed as well which is great. The vet thought it was 50/50 whether his incisors will now engage top and bottom or not but he also commented on how good the rest of his teeth were. He has not had any pain meds because of the metacam issue but he doesn't seem to be in pain at all. We will see how he goes over the weekend with a view to booking him in with Iain if need be.

Thank you all for your comments and good wishes.
 
Last edited:
elizabethH said:
Oscar is back from the vets and had his tear ducts flushed as well as upper and lower incisors burred. He is being very picky about what he will eat but at least he is wolfing down carrot tops even if he looks at his beloved parsley and strawberry leaves as if we are trying to poison him. He has peed and pooed as well which is great. The vet thought it was 50/50 whether his incisors will now engage top and bottom or not but he also commented on how good the rest of his teeth were. He has not had any pain meds because of the metacam issue but he doesn't seem to be in pain at all. We will see how he goes over the weekend with a view to booking him in with Iain if need be.

Thank you all for your comments and good wishes. Ok
Click to expand...


You're very welcome :)

I hope he does well over the weekend, and you manage to come to a decision regarding his front teeth x
 
Thanks. Rupert is pretty much the same and we are still changing his bandage and dressings every couple of days. If he likes the bandage and it's comfortable it can be 4 days but at other times it's a few hours even if us stupid humans can't see the difference. Each time the scab has almost healed it must itch like mad because that is when he tugs most at the bandage. I have made no end of protective coverings from leather, baby socks you name it but he takes delight in getting them off asap! The good thing though is that he seems quite happy and upbeat and does huge leaps and binkies across our lounge though I do try and stop his handbrake turns as that can't do his feet any good at all. He is a bit put out that he has lost some of his space in the kitchen to Oscar but I'm sure he will get over that.
 
tabithakat64 said:
Hi Elizabeth, how's Rupert?

As you know we've got a few incisorless buns at Rabbit Residence, sometimes it's the better option as regular dentals are so stressful for the rabbits. I'd have a chat with Iain regarding getting them removed and also regarding pain relief in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Sorry my response is later down the page about Rupert as I pressed the wrong button! Raggy, Pepper, Raph. and Saffron are all OK as well. Phew!
 
Sending lots of eating vibes for Oscar. I hope he recovers well and that his teeth behave themselves now.
 
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