Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
S, it is so lovely to see you after such a very long time. I will take a look at the Guardian article later today xx
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lesson in forage to help minor issues+ "unusal" behaviours
- Thread starter thumps_
- Start date
S, it is so lovely to see you after such a very long time. I will take a look at the Guardian article later today xx
Hello Jane :wave::wave::wave:
Maizey, It could well be that there is an advance in knowledge over the last 5 years. To ascertain the subtype - homini suis, involves costly DNA analysis.
It is your personal opinion, that this is more widespread than originally thought - but there is little evidence. Thumper presented as megacolon - ultrasound showed the poor motility later found to be from scar tissue. Megacolon is not that common. Ultrasound is now done regularly. I disagree with you strongly.
Thumper was ill for 6 YEARS. Benjie has been unwell for less than 6 weeks - previously with guts of iron.
You are right that diagnosis of M avium can only be made by taking biopsy of intestinial lesions in rabbits followed by culture. NO WAY is Benjie going to have a laparotomy for lesions which may not even exist.
What is the "treatment" for M.avium? compulsory euthanasia.
I have a phenominal resistance to M after early pulmonary tuberculosis in childhood. I am the only person at risk here. No no no.
I think that people reading this post should be aware That humans only contract M.avium when they are immunocompromised -eg AIDS or the appauling conditions & poor nutrition of long term sleeping rough.
I refuse to go down that path of compulsory euthanasia.
Before anything else, I'm going to look for disease which can be treated.
If the poohs are negative we'll do bloods, & if that shows nothing, we'll do ultrasound.
Not a single test result yet!!!! Isn't jumping to a diagnosis where the only management is euthanasia a bit premature?
I actually looked after a M.avium bunny for 6 years. You do not have that practical experience.
I'm saying that Benjie is very different from Thumper.
Yes, nothing was found in your 3 rabbits at pm. Thumper had readily seen lesions throughout his GI tract. I think we'd be picking up evidence of this "epidemic" of M avium in rabbits in the pm's which are done - an "epidemic" of fibrotic lesions.
We discussed some of this over the phone. I regret you should post it all in public. What are you recommending? that all buns with caecal issues be pts just in case they have M avium?
ETA RE cattle tuberculin testing negative, then found to be riddled with presmnably M. Bovis at slaughter. It's well known by doctors that the tuberculin test turns negative in overwhelming infections in humans - both M tuberculosis & bovis.
It is your personal opinion, that this is more widespread than originally thought - but there is little evidence. Thumper presented as megacolon - ultrasound showed the poor motility later found to be from scar tissue. Megacolon is not that common. Ultrasound is now done regularly. I disagree with you strongly.
Thumper was ill for 6 YEARS. Benjie has been unwell for less than 6 weeks - previously with guts of iron.
You are right that diagnosis of M avium can only be made by taking biopsy of intestinial lesions in rabbits followed by culture. NO WAY is Benjie going to have a laparotomy for lesions which may not even exist.
What is the "treatment" for M.avium? compulsory euthanasia.
I have a phenominal resistance to M after early pulmonary tuberculosis in childhood. I am the only person at risk here. No no no.
I think that people reading this post should be aware That humans only contract M.avium when they are immunocompromised -eg AIDS or the appauling conditions & poor nutrition of long term sleeping rough.
I refuse to go down that path of compulsory euthanasia.
Before anything else, I'm going to look for disease which can be treated.
If the poohs are negative we'll do bloods, & if that shows nothing, we'll do ultrasound.
Not a single test result yet!!!! Isn't jumping to a diagnosis where the only management is euthanasia a bit premature?
I actually looked after a M.avium bunny for 6 years. You do not have that practical experience.
I'm saying that Benjie is very different from Thumper.
Yes, nothing was found in your 3 rabbits at pm. Thumper had readily seen lesions throughout his GI tract. I think we'd be picking up evidence of this "epidemic" of M avium in rabbits in the pm's which are done - an "epidemic" of fibrotic lesions.
We discussed some of this over the phone. I regret you should post it all in public. What are you recommending? that all buns with caecal issues be pts just in case they have M avium?
ETA RE cattle tuberculin testing negative, then found to be riddled with presmnably M. Bovis at slaughter. It's well known by doctors that the tuberculin test turns negative in overwhelming infections in humans - both M tuberculosis & bovis.
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The article I was reading was from the Veterinary medicine international-Which states M Avium Hominissuis has been found in rabbits.
You said it had never been recorded in rabbits in the whole of Europe before.This is why I said I believe its more wide spread than originally thought.
I never suggested to have Benjie put to sleep,just that it could be a possibility that he may be a carrier.
Obviously I have upset you in some way which wasnt my intention.I wish you all the best in finding out whats wrong with Benjie
You said it had never been recorded in rabbits in the whole of Europe before.This is why I said I believe its more wide spread than originally thought.
I never suggested to have Benjie put to sleep,just that it could be a possibility that he may be a carrier.
Obviously I have upset you in some way which wasnt my intention.I wish you all the best in finding out whats wrong with Benjie
MightyMax
Banned
Good morning :wave:
I wish to comment on Maizey's posts re MAH because the information is highly misleading in the context of rabbits.
My information is from personal experience & derives from the European Colledge of Veterinary Medicine'of which there is a branch in my town - senior vet Neil Forbes vice chancellor of the university, main base in the UK - Langford Bristol at the time of my attendance.
Thumper was cared for by Marie Kubiak - special interest in rabbits particularly rabbit immune system for many years, then Elizabetta Manicelli who had her exotics training in Milan, & subsequently moved to the Royal D*ck vet colledge Edinburgh, & finally Miguel exotics trained in Spain & who made a human error in assessing Thumper's need for dentals.
There is no date cited on the paper referred to by Maizey.
Thumper died some 5 years ago. "described in" means exactly that. A confirmed irrefutable diagnosis made in a species with no referrence to numbers.
Several species are cited in the article. What was not made clear in the posts was that MAH presents differently in different species.
PIGS are easily infected, the infective dose (the number of viable organisms required to infect another animal) is 5 x 10 nineth = 5x 10,000,000,000 viable MAH bacilli.
The disease affects the lymph nodes throughout the gut including tonsils. Pathology ulcerated granulomata. Sinificance high numbers of the bacilli are continuously shed into the gut, causing high levels in faeces which contaminate the environment facilitating spread to other animals.
IMO confusion between species led to misinformation.
Rabbits The local hospital was only involved in harvesting the organs. The whole GI tract & liver. Without further examination it was evident that there were multiple firm lesions throughout Thumper's gut. They were sent to Langford for pathology.
Microscopy showed granulomatous containing few gram negative bacillae & unlike pigs they were surrounded by a dense fibrous capsule which indictes a strong immune response. This would prevent shedding of organisms into the gut. Therefore there was no significant contamination of the environment.
Pathology showed the gram -ve organisms.
Bacteriological culture requires a specialised medium - AFAIK malchite green, to suoppress the growth of other microrganisms. Identifyable colonies are only seenafter 3 weeks of incubation.
Mycobacterium avium. This comprises 28 subspecies affecting different animals as well as humans in different ways. MAH usually presents with submandibular & cervical lymphadenopthy in both humans & pigs. Thumper did not have these features.
It is true that M. avium avium & paratuberculosis can affect wild rabbits but is descibed as uncommon. I have not been able to ascertain the prevalence in the UK,
Pygmy rabbits in America ( a different species from European rabbits) appear to be more prone to infection & by subspecies paratuberculosis.
I was told that there was considerable discussion about Thumper's case between the top European & UK vets. I was told that the subtype hominisuis had not been seen in rabbits before. Of course this information is now 4 years old & may have changed.
The necessary hygeine required for Thumper's envirnment was discussed with Marie & public health. The consenus was that soap & water cleaning of the liquid caecotrophs had been perfectly adequate decontamination, because the type of lesion could not have caused significant environmental contamination indeed soap was the most effective agent to inactivate the bacilli by dissolving the lipid coating. The formation of biofilms was not deemed to be a factor in a dry environment.
Therefore my husbandry in terms of decontamination had been perfectly adequate.
The implications for keeping a rabbit with MAH is that as the environment is not significantly contaminated there is a negligable, if any risk of infecting other rabbits or other species in the domestic environment. The I do not know infective dose for rabbits, but that they are difficult to infect naturally. implies a higher infective dose than that for piglets.
I strongly refute that any inadequacy on my part, or in his envirnment could have caused Benjie's current illness particularly as the sewer flooding in the rear garden has been stopped by measures to divert it to the front for approx 9 years during which time we have had many years of drought. Benjie rarely goes into the rear garden at max for 5mins because of his timidity. Any digging has been done in imported soil, confined to a raised bed.
I am sure that Maizey is aware as a farmer that if any Mycobacteria are isolated from any pet & which can infect humans, as well as certain farm animals, there is no choice whatsoever by owner or vet. There is a legal requirement to slaughter the animal.
The confusion & assertiveness of her posts confused me. It was very distressing to consider the implications for Benjie, as the academic aspects MAH were not at the top of my mind.
As far as her opinion that it is commoner than we think. The lesions were evident macroscopically at organ extraction., therefore they would be apparent at any pm. I am not aware that we are hearing of them even though pm's are not done regularly.
These are the grounds on which I refute her posts as misinformation & scaremongering, which is to the detriment of rabbits and causing unnecessary anxiety & potential panic in owners.
I am very upset that totally false aspersions have been cast on my husbandry with the false implications that my failings have caused Benjie's current illness. This thread has a high viewing rate on a public forum across the world.
I have been personally accused of attacking Maizey on forum. I maintain that correcting inaccurate information without rudeness to the O/P is permissable on here. I have made no comments about her own husbandry or rabbit care.
Rather I have been attacked as a result of false information because it pertained to other species not rabbits.
When discussing Thumpers investigations with Marie, she said that ascertaining whether he had a primary condition affecting the muscle or, as in megacolon, gradual loss of innervation to the gut would necessitate laparotomy & biopsy which was not in Thumper's interests because the management was the same. ie This is the only way to diagnose MAH ante mortem in rabbits.
Ascertaining subtype is highly costly & not routinely done. Instead theterm MACS = mycobacterium avium complex is normally used.
I trust that this clarifies the confusion around this topic.
I am deeply indebted to Marie & Elizabetta for their great generosity in completely funding Thumper's pm. This extensive type of pm is only done for research purposes.
My information is from personal experience & derives from the European Colledge of Veterinary Medicine'of which there is a branch in my town - senior vet Neil Forbes vice chancellor of the university, main base in the UK - Langford Bristol at the time of my attendance.
Thumper was cared for by Marie Kubiak - special interest in rabbits particularly rabbit immune system for many years, then Elizabetta Manicelli who had her exotics training in Milan, & subsequently moved to the Royal D*ck vet colledge Edinburgh, & finally Miguel exotics trained in Spain & who made a human error in assessing Thumper's need for dentals.
There is no date cited on the paper referred to by Maizey.
Thumper died some 5 years ago. "described in" means exactly that. A confirmed irrefutable diagnosis made in a species with no referrence to numbers.
Several species are cited in the article. What was not made clear in the posts was that MAH presents differently in different species.
PIGS are easily infected, the infective dose (the number of viable organisms required to infect another animal) is 5 x 10 nineth = 5x 10,000,000,000 viable MAH bacilli.
The disease affects the lymph nodes throughout the gut including tonsils. Pathology ulcerated granulomata. Sinificance high numbers of the bacilli are continuously shed into the gut, causing high levels in faeces which contaminate the environment facilitating spread to other animals.
IMO confusion between species led to misinformation.
Rabbits The local hospital was only involved in harvesting the organs. The whole GI tract & liver. Without further examination it was evident that there were multiple firm lesions throughout Thumper's gut. They were sent to Langford for pathology.
Microscopy showed granulomatous containing few gram negative bacillae & unlike pigs they were surrounded by a dense fibrous capsule which indictes a strong immune response. This would prevent shedding of organisms into the gut. Therefore there was no significant contamination of the environment.
Pathology showed the gram -ve organisms.
Bacteriological culture requires a specialised medium - AFAIK malchite green, to suoppress the growth of other microrganisms. Identifyable colonies are only seenafter 3 weeks of incubation.
Mycobacterium avium. This comprises 28 subspecies affecting different animals as well as humans in different ways. MAH usually presents with submandibular & cervical lymphadenopthy in both humans & pigs. Thumper did not have these features.
It is true that M. avium avium & paratuberculosis can affect wild rabbits but is descibed as uncommon. I have not been able to ascertain the prevalence in the UK,
Pygmy rabbits in America ( a different species from European rabbits) appear to be more prone to infection & by subspecies paratuberculosis.
I was told that there was considerable discussion about Thumper's case between the top European & UK vets. I was told that the subtype hominisuis had not been seen in rabbits before. Of course this information is now 4 years old & may have changed.
The necessary hygeine required for Thumper's envirnment was discussed with Marie & public health. The consenus was that soap & water cleaning of the liquid caecotrophs had been perfectly adequate decontamination, because the type of lesion could not have caused significant environmental contamination indeed soap was the most effective agent to inactivate the bacilli by dissolving the lipid coating. The formation of biofilms was not deemed to be a factor in a dry environment.
Therefore my husbandry in terms of decontamination had been perfectly adequate.
The implications for keeping a rabbit with MAH is that as the environment is not significantly contaminated there is a negligable, if any risk of infecting other rabbits or other species in the domestic environment. The I do not know infective dose for rabbits, but that they are difficult to infect naturally. implies a higher infective dose than that for piglets.
I strongly refute that any inadequacy on my part, or in his envirnment could have caused Benjie's current illness particularly as the sewer flooding in the rear garden has been stopped by measures to divert it to the front for approx 9 years during which time we have had many years of drought. Benjie rarely goes into the rear garden at max for 5mins because of his timidity. Any digging has been done in imported soil, confined to a raised bed.
I am sure that Maizey is aware as a farmer that if any Mycobacteria are isolated from any pet & which can infect humans, as well as certain farm animals, there is no choice whatsoever by owner or vet. There is a legal requirement to slaughter the animal.
The confusion & assertiveness of her posts confused me. It was very distressing to consider the implications for Benjie, as the academic aspects MAH were not at the top of my mind.
As far as her opinion that it is commoner than we think. The lesions were evident macroscopically at organ extraction., therefore they would be apparent at any pm. I am not aware that we are hearing of them even though pm's are not done regularly.
These are the grounds on which I refute her posts as misinformation & scaremongering, which is to the detriment of rabbits and causing unnecessary anxiety & potential panic in owners.
I am very upset that totally false aspersions have been cast on my husbandry with the false implications that my failings have caused Benjie's current illness. This thread has a high viewing rate on a public forum across the world.
I have been personally accused of attacking Maizey on forum. I maintain that correcting inaccurate information without rudeness to the O/P is permissable on here. I have made no comments about her own husbandry or rabbit care.
Rather I have been attacked as a result of false information because it pertained to other species not rabbits.
When discussing Thumpers investigations with Marie, she said that ascertaining whether he had a primary condition affecting the muscle or, as in megacolon, gradual loss of innervation to the gut would necessitate laparotomy & biopsy which was not in Thumper's interests because the management was the same. ie This is the only way to diagnose MAH ante mortem in rabbits.
Ascertaining subtype is highly costly & not routinely done. Instead theterm MACS = mycobacterium avium complex is normally used.
I trust that this clarifies the confusion around this topic.
I am deeply indebted to Marie & Elizabetta for their great generosity in completely funding Thumper's pm. This extensive type of pm is only done for research purposes.
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Thank you Joey&Boo
Benjie hasn't eaten for 8 hours following his blood tests today - obviously unexpected by all. IMO stress.
He's certainly "not talking to me" which I expected!
So vet is being informed & fingers are crossed ecause I don't want to stress him any more.
Poor BenjieI hope his stress reduces so that he starts to eat something soon.
Thank you Omi
Thankfully he decided he's "talking". I've yet to suss out how to tempt a rabbit to eat when he's tightly jammed behind the sofa seeking safety, so that only his rear end is accessable.:lol:
Now I have the front end, he's taken 3 sprigs of English lavender & 2 dry leafy blackthorn twigs. After a wait he took several sprigs of Basil, (thins mucus) a bare twig of willow (analgesic properties) & 3 fresh dandelions. 4 waste poops & 2 large unformed caecals. (Blackthorn is a mild rabbit gut motility agent)
I suppose that is forage related!
As for his other conditions No coccidiosis isolated (doesn't mean he hasn't got it, because shedding of the oocysts is intermittant, although 3+ days specimen should cover that.
Now looking for abscessation of pasturella in his internal organs because of the early blood born spread & surface abscesses.
Nose damp & now sore but nasal & eye discharge are clear so we do not think them infected at present.
The worry for me is trying to stop his 3 conditions from "going pear shaped".
Hocks - I hope he stops hunching soon! Vet & I felt that it would be counter productive to give anything by mouth or take him to the surgery unless absolutely necessary as counter productive re his stress. This would not be the usual management, but in Benjie's case is the most prudent.
I am now starting a new type of foraging - foraging in the dark to try to get his favoured fresh forage :lol: - not much time today.
I would also like to thank those who have contributed their experiences with their rabbits, on this thread which was very enjoyable for me, until recently.
joey&boo
Wise Old Thumper
I'm sorry
Stressy buns are really stressful to mange. I hope he forgives you soon & starts eating sooner
joey&boo
Wise Old Thumper
I didn't see your update to Omi before I posted, good that he is nibbling a selection & loves you again. I do hope this thread continues, I feel like I'm learning on a different level.
Joey & Boo took their time getting better. I tried all sorts of my dried stash, they seemed to like hawthorn & geranium too, then when I finally found some dog rose they went nuts for it. Brambles are everywhere :lol they did get eaten but mainly by greedy Mouse. Joey has always been a sucker for dandelions & devoured those too. What are your thoughts on Bindweed ? I was hesitant wondering if it had the opposite to the desired effect
Joey & Boo took their time getting better. I tried all sorts of my dried stash, they seemed to like hawthorn & geranium too, then when I finally found some dog rose they went nuts for it. Brambles are everywhere :lol they did get eaten but mainly by greedy Mouse. Joey has always been a sucker for dandelions & devoured those too. What are your thoughts on Bindweed ? I was hesitant wondering if it had the opposite to the desired effect
Buns do seem to be very idiosyncratic about their preferred forage when in stasis or severe slow down. I come back to offering a variety of forage most buns prefer when in stasis & getting to know your bun.
I know that 1 person uses field bindweed - stripey pink & low growing, NOT the larger pure white high climbing variety - Omi please help me with better nomenclature!
Neither of my 2 take much variety, Other foragers may have experience & knowledge about it.
During my absence to get some weeping willow & dandelions (couldn't find any lavender overhanging the pavement) Benjie has had a mass evacuation of his caecum
(no wonder he had pain) Bet that was a burden off his tummy! He's eating hawthorn voraciously. I can't really explain it. Personally I've never heard of such a rapid recovery, but we haven't got a diagnosis so ... I hope it's a good sign.Yes, stressy bunnies are very difficult to help. I do my best with a pseudowarren of interconnecting cardboard boxes under my bed. Some contain portions of forage in case he's frightened to come into the open to eat. He likes my dressing table with long legs & curtains round :lol: He feels safe & can escape in any direction he wishes but anything could get at him just as easily!
Downstairs he likes to lie up under the side board, the many boxes he can run behind & around, the rabbit run (just pulled the sofa slightly forward from the wall). This summer he got an even better rabbit run of hawthorn & blackthorn twigs stacked against the wall to dry. Even I don't know whether he's in there! In the tiny room for computer Benjie was determined to make a rabbit run behind the desk which I blocked off becauseof the wiring. Poor fella got "a-a" when he tried to get behind it, so many times, would jump in the air & turn his back on it - not understanding what I disapproved of. He didn't take to lying under my chair with a blanket to the floor probably because the back had to be open. So he avoids the room & just charges in & out to tell me he wants a stroke or more food etc.
He normally comes into the bedroom when I go to bed. I discovered I had to leave the door wide open so if he's frightened by the night life at the back, he can move onto the landing to distance himself from the sound. I'm very fortunate that both my buns trained well not to be destructive (rabbits) in the house so I can allow them unrestricted free range 24/7. Many people eg in rented property, or for many other reasons would find this totally impossible, I gain an impression that a pair of buns are more difficult to train to be "house safe". It also needs an "eyes on the floor all the time" when I move around. One result is that I'm oblivious to the accumulation of cobwebs on the ceiling!
& there's an excess of cardboard boxes around :lol:I'm sure that everyone knows how "well behaved" many buns are with the vet. Although Benjie is far less stressed than he was, I watch a jet black bunny flatten himself into the black table & lie immobile. This is actually a response to predators when there is nowhere to hide - lie low & freeze,& hope predators don't notice them. Benjie was incredibly "good" & didn't move for his blood test. (The staff can't help but smell of cat dog & other predators, can't have a shower & change cloths for every rabbit consult) Oh, but are they different buns at home! I think this is why.
roxyroller88
Mama Doe
Sending lots of vibes for Benjie xxx
MightyMax
Banned
Thank you for updating on Benjie and I'm so glad to hear he's on the path of eating again
There's way too many buns on here not eating at the moment.I am going foraging (in the daylight) tomorrow. I don't hold out hope of much, but cow parsley seems to be rife which I believe to be fairly high in protein?
I hope you have a peaceful night thumps xx
Bindweed is interesting. Yes the pink and white stripey flowered one is Field Bindweed (Convolvulus avensis). The larger leaf one, which threads its way through hedges etc, has larger pure white flowers and which is more straggly, is Hedge Bindweed (Calystegia sepium). We have both in the garden. I feed Hedge Bindweed to my rabbits until it flowers and it goes down well.
The interesting thing for me is that I used to feed quite large amounts of Field Bindweed to a (now departed) lop, who liked it. I will never know if it had any toxic effect on him. Now, with the benefit of Twigs' foraging book I only feed Hedge Bindweed and only until it flowers.
Twigs advises that Field Bindweed is mildly toxic to grazing animals as it includes tropine alkaloids, which produce lesions on the liver and digestive tract. She says that field tests on mice have confirmed this.
Her advice for Hedge Bindweed is that the seeds are toxic and so it should be collected before it flowers.
We have none in the garden at the moment.
My OH gave one of the Hawthorn parts of the hedge a prune yesterday and it was interesting to see that the rabbits were very excited by it (the twigs had no leaves left). Larger pieces had the bark stripped and smaller bits were just consumed. A few weeks ago, possibly because there was a greater variety of forage available, they ate it but not enthusiastically.
I hope Benjie is a bit more like himself today.
The interesting thing for me is that I used to feed quite large amounts of Field Bindweed to a (now departed) lop, who liked it. I will never know if it had any toxic effect on him. Now, with the benefit of Twigs' foraging book I only feed Hedge Bindweed and only until it flowers.
Twigs advises that Field Bindweed is mildly toxic to grazing animals as it includes tropine alkaloids, which produce lesions on the liver and digestive tract. She says that field tests on mice have confirmed this.
Her advice for Hedge Bindweed is that the seeds are toxic and so it should be collected before it flowers.
We have none in the garden at the moment.
My OH gave one of the Hawthorn parts of the hedge a prune yesterday and it was interesting to see that the rabbits were very excited by it (the twigs had no leaves left). Larger pieces had the bark stripped and smaller bits were just consumed. A few weeks ago, possibly because there was a greater variety of forage available, they ate it but not enthusiastically.
I hope Benjie is a bit more like himself today.
Thank you so much for this very helpful information Omi. I wish you'd been with us when we started off in 2011.
Benjie's blood results are back :shock: very surprising & very not good.
It's haematological - not gut or snuffles issues BTWI have some difficult decisions to make given Benjie's temperament.
I think about how easily he went into stasis yesterday. A simple blood test was a big hurdle for him.
How stressy? I was so pleased to watch him in the dark in the small hours, lying stretched out. He came for a stroke then took himself to the litter tray, settled down for a wee & I coughed. Benjie shot off the litter tray across the room & under the dressing table without doing his wee!:shock: You'd have thought after all these years he was used to the noises I make!!
So I ask "What is in HIS best interests?" Do I put him through hell in his last days just so I can put a name to something which is untreatable? Would he even survive further tests?
Please, I know him, no one else on here does. I've had a bit of a tough ride from misunderstandings already on this thread.
Benjie certainly isn't in PTS category at present. Far from it.!!!
It's a simple how far to go? How to keep him as comfortable as possible, & eventually, how to achieve a gentle passing with dignity. Strangely, this requires the greatest professional skills of all.
I've discovered that couple of very small sprigs of lavender helps his stress, & need to research that further re long term use.
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I am sorry that the blood test has identified a serious issue for Benjie
I fully appreciate the concept that just because we can proceed with further investigations/treatment for any living creature, it doesn't mean to say that it is always the right thing to do. It is essential in my view to take the creature's character and quality of life into consideration.
I don't know what further tests would be necessary in Benjie's case, but would it perhaps be possible, if he needs further blood taking for example, for you to take the blood at home and take it to the vets?
I will be interested to read what your research into Lavender comes up with.
My use of plants for medicinal purposes is at a very simple level i.e feeding a variety of forage, tree leaves and bark to aid digestion. My rabbits appear sometimes to prefer certain plants above others, but it is not consistent enough to deduce anything from it.
I fully appreciate the concept that just because we can proceed with further investigations/treatment for any living creature, it doesn't mean to say that it is always the right thing to do. It is essential in my view to take the creature's character and quality of life into consideration.
I don't know what further tests would be necessary in Benjie's case, but would it perhaps be possible, if he needs further blood taking for example, for you to take the blood at home and take it to the vets?
I will be interested to read what your research into Lavender comes up with.
My use of plants for medicinal purposes is at a very simple level i.e feeding a variety of forage, tree leaves and bark to aid digestion. My rabbits appear sometimes to prefer certain plants above others, but it is not consistent enough to deduce anything from it.
