Selene and Elphie- ud Elphie again

tlcwrites said:

I saw Sacha (vet) today. 4 more of my girls (Iris/Arce/Athena/River) have now had their RVHD2 vaccine done. :thumb: Feels good to have vaccinated them all now. Anyhow, I brought up Selene as intended. Sacha agrees that although metacam functionality is affected by the liver, as we're in palliative care stages for Se, it's more important to keep her pain free and use the metacam. I also queried about the milk thistle and she said that although the evidence is sketchy at best, it can't hurt to try at this stage.

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I hope that Selene will remain as well as possible and that she can be content within herself. The Inspector really liked Milk Thistle, mind you there was not much that he didnt like really !

tlcwrites said:

I saw Sacha (vet) today. 4 more of my girls (Iris/Arce/Athena/River) have now had their RVHD2 vaccine done. :thumb: Feels good to have vaccinated them all now. Anyhow, I brought up Selene as intended. Sacha agrees that although metacam functionality is affected by the liver, as we're in palliative care stages for Se, it's more important to keep her pain free and use the metacam. I also queried about the milk thistle and she said that although the evidence is sketchy at best, it can't hurt to try at this stage.

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Yes I am glad your vet approved the use of Metacam. I see no virtue in withholding and leaving a bunny potentially in pain.

Regarding Milk Thistle - introduce gently as it can cause quite a reaction if too much given too quickly

Good luck and thinking of you xx

I'm so sorry about Selene, it's very sad. I hope that the medication can keep on top of any pain and that you both get some more time together. It's good she has Elphie for company too. As you know we have Buffy and Sydney inside together for the foreseeable, which is making such a difference to his wellbeing x

Sorry to hear about your bunny. Hope you can share some nice times in the time she has left x

Thinking of you and Selene. I hope she can remain comfortable for a long time.

Se is fairly bright tonight, compared to yesterday. Although she and Elphie currently have restricted space, I feel like being indoors is the best fit for them right now. I'm still very worried about her but I will be now til she's gone. My poor black beauty. I've also ordered the milk thistle extract, the one you recommended, Jane. I hope Se likes it as much as the Inspector did. How do I go about giving it to her and dosing it? I will start slow, of course.

TheThreeB's said:

I'm so sorry about Selene, it's very sad. I hope that the medication can keep on top of any pain and that you both get some more time together. It's good she has Elphie for company too. As you know we have Buffy and Sydney inside together for the foreseeable, which is making such a difference to his wellbeing x

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Company is important. Unfortunately, the quad has been separated down one of the less natural pairs. Morning was/is devoted to Elphie, and Helios and Selene have been close since before I got them. Luckily, it was always a very easy and loving group regardless, but I can't have all 4 of them in. At least both sets have company though. It makes me feel less guilty, like I'm sure you'd feel over Theo. I'm so glad that Sydney is responding so well to Buffy's companionship. It can make all the difference in poorly buns.

However long she has is as long as she has. I don't want her to suffer, especially as there is no getting better. But it's so hard to make that judgement. I'm questioning myself all the time now. I'm hoping that the metacam and milk thistle will make her comfortable. Selene looked so relieved when she got her metacam this afternoon. I didn't want to give it earlier because I needed to speak to her vet first. But still, I'm continually wondering. I haven't been in the position to question euthanasia for a long while. My most recent passings (Lelantos onwards) have all been ones where the bun has taken the decision out of my hands...

tlcwrites said:

Se is fairly bright tonight, compared to yesterday. Although she and Elphie currently have restricted space, I feel like being indoors is the best fit for them right now. I'm still very worried about her but I will be now til she's gone. My poor black beauty. I've also ordered the milk thistle extract, the one you recommended, Jane. I hope Se likes it as much as the Inspector did. How do I go about giving it to her and dosing it? I will start slow, of course.

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I gave Morse his in a bit of Blackberry Tea. I cant remember the dose though. It was my Vet who advised me to give it to him. He had abnormal liver function results from a blood test but thankfully the U/S of his liver was fine and his Liver Function returned to normal.

tlcwrites said:

Se is fairly bright tonight, compared to yesterday. Although she and Elphie currently have restricted space, I feel like being indoors is the best fit for them right now. I'm still very worried about her but I will be now til she's gone. My poor black beauty. I've also ordered the milk thistle extract, the one you recommended, Jane. I hope Se likes it as much as the Inspector did. How do I go about giving it to her and dosing it? I will start slow, of course.

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Yes it sounds like being inside is going to be good for them both at the moment.

Good luck ongoing

Selene was a bit flat when I got up this morning. I fed her and Elphie some dried forage. Elphie fell into it as if she'd been starved, but Se was having none of it. I shared a banana with her, but she'd soon had enough of that. However, when I gave them both some carrot tops, she and Elphie both went nuts. I don't know if my mum had popped some food into them when she left for work, which was only about half an hour before I went downstairs. If she did, it might explain why she was uninterested in the dried forage. As, as well as unlimited hay, Elphie and Se are getting unlimited dry forage too.

This whole thing just breaks my heart. But, I don't think she's had enough yet. At the moment, I think she's as comfortable as she can be, but maybe even being fussy because she knows she'll get away with it. That I'll cave and get her the tastier noms, just because of who she is. Equally, though, I don't want her life to be completely and utterly miserable when I make the decision. This isn't easy. Whoever said "You'll know when it's time," should be hung, drawn, and quartered. :evil: It's not that easy. And I'm so sorry to anyone who I've said "you'll know," to in the past. Sometimes it is that easy. Other times, it really really isn't.

Just wanted to say I'm thinking of you x

Yes that decision to separate them must have been difficult, I know we have found it hard and I do feel guilty about Theo. I don't know how you 'know' when they have had enough but its encouraging that she is still eating (even if it's on her terms) x

Sending you and Selene loads of hugs. Perhaps she's not being just "picky" about her food, but perhaps she instinctively knows what her body needs. I would give her lots of variety and let her choose. I know it's not easy, because it's likely that Elphie will be getting more food than normal under this regime, but perhaps that's not too important at the moment. I agree it must be very hard.

tlcwrites said:

Selene was a bit flat when I got up this morning. I fed her and Elphie some dried forage. Elphie fell into it as if she'd been starved, but Se was having none of it. I shared a banana with her, but she'd soon had enough of that. However, when I gave them both some carrot tops, she and Elphie both went nuts. I don't know if my mum had popped some food into them when she left for work, which was only about half an hour before I went downstairs. If she did, it might explain why she was uninterested in the dried forage. As, as well as unlimited hay, Elphie and Se are getting unlimited dry forage too.

This whole thing just breaks my heart. But, I don't think she's had enough yet. At the moment, I think she's as comfortable as she can be, but maybe even being fussy because she knows she'll get away with it. That I'll cave and get her the tastier noms, just because of who she is. Equally, though, I don't want her life to be completely and utterly miserable when I make the decision. This isn't easy. Whoever said "You'll know when it's time," should be hung, drawn, and quartered. :evil: It's not that easy. And I'm so sorry to anyone who I've said "you'll know," to in the past. Sometimes it is that easy. Other times, it really really isn't.

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I agree. I never feel it's as easy as looking into their eyes and them telling you. No way!

I have devised my own system with my own rabbits for this sort of thing. Took years, but I guess I know rabbits a lot better now having had so many. It's still extremely hard, but I'm more sure.

Sending loads of vibes and hugs for you. So difficult

Omi said:

Sending you and Selene loads of hugs. Perhaps she's not being just "picky" about her food, but perhaps she instinctively knows what her body needs. I would give her lots of variety and let her choose. I know it's not easy, because it's likely that Elphie will be getting more food than normal under this regime, but perhaps that's not too important at the moment. I agree it must be very hard.

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I'm definitely fine with Elphie having as much as she wants too. She also needs it. Whilst Selene is probably is more frail at the moment, Elphie hasn't been right since she lost her sister in January. Elphie's really benefitting from being inside.

MightyMax said:

I agree. I never feel it's as easy as looking into their eyes and them telling you. No way!

I have devised my own system with my own rabbits for this sort of thing. Took years, but I guess I know rabbits a lot better now having had so many. It's still extremely hard, but I'm more sure.

Sending loads of vibes and hugs for you. So difficult

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As a case in point, if I'd based it on this morning, I'd have let her go. Now? She's been in her hay rack for the first time in days, picking out what she wants from the 3 types of hay (meadow, alfalfa, timothy) and acting really content. Now she's having a seriously good groom, and showing fairly nice bunny behaviour.


Thank you, MM - and to everyone who is commenting and offering support. It's very bittersweet, knowing that both these two are in the beginning of the end.

Just read through this thread and I'm so sorry that Selene is so poorly.
I'll be keeping you both in my thoughts. Xxxxx

Selene has had a very good afternoon and evening, in spite of having her metacam later than I intended. I bought her and Elphie some new treats and a new toy (don't tell the others!) She's spent the past 2 hours sitting in front of me and one of my very dearest friends, having her nose stroked all night. She kept nudging my friend's hand for more noserubs! It was the first time my friend met Se and she fell in love, despite her being visibly poorly, but also didn't judge because she knows I can't do any more than I am. I told Se she couldn't keep my friend - and my friend that she couldn't take her home either! :lol:

tlcwrites said:

As a case in point, if I'd based it on this morning, I'd have let her go. Now? She's been in her hay rack for the first time in days, picking out what she wants from the 3 types of hay (meadow, alfalfa, timothy) and acting really content. Now she's having a seriously good groom, and showing fairly nice bunny behaviour.


Thank you, MM - and to everyone who is commenting and offering support. It's very bittersweet, knowing that both these two are in the beginning of the end.

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You're very welcome. It is indeed very bittersweet.

tlcwrites said:

Selene has had a very good afternoon and evening, in spite of having her metacam later than I intended. I bought her and Elphie some new treats and a new toy (don't tell the others!) She's spent the past 2 hours sitting in front of me and one of my very dearest friends, having her nose stroked all night. She kept nudging my friend's hand for more noserubs! It was the first time my friend met Se and she fell in love, despite her being visibly poorly, but also didn't judge because she knows I can't do any more than I am. I told Se she couldn't keep my friend - and my friend that she couldn't take her home either! :lol:

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So lovely to have a friend that doesn't judge you

Absolutely lovely to have a time like that xx

tlcwrites said:

Selene has had a very good afternoon and evening, in spite of having her metacam later than I intended. I bought her and Elphie some new treats and a new toy (don't tell the others!) She's spent the past 2 hours sitting in front of me and one of my very dearest friends, having her nose stroked all night. She kept nudging my friend's hand for more noserubs! It was the first time my friend met Se and she fell in love, despite her being visibly poorly, but also didn't judge because she knows I can't do any more than I am. I told Se she couldn't keep my friend - and my friend that she couldn't take her home either! :lol:

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I hope that Selene will have a comfortable day today. And how could your friend not be bowled over when meeting a gorgeous little Rex