Sibby
New Kit
Hi,
I'm new here, and was hoping I might be able to get some feedback/advice from fellow bunny owners. I'm very desperate.
In Jan 2008 I adopted Gilbert (aka "Gilby") - a baby lionhead cross bunny. He's my first pet - and has been my much-loved companion through my 20s and 30s. I don't have children and he's always lived in the house. He's always been a sweet-natured, intelligent and highly charismatic bunny, never shown any aggression, I've been so lucky, and has been by my side always, (I suffer from long-term health problems, and have been housebound at times, so we really were joined at the hip!) - that is, until last year, whereby due to a change in my living circumstances, I had to make a very hard decision - to let my mum take care of him as he could no longer live with me. This has been very painful, many tears have been shed and not a day goes past whereby I don't feel guilt and sadness, but it was utterly necessary and I figured that having him live with my family, and therefore getting to see him as often as I see my family, (they live 250 miles away so this is about once every month) was better than giving him up altogether.
The past 18 months have not been easy for Gilbert. On a visit earlier this year I picked him up and noticed his testicle was the size of a large conker - it turned out to be testicular cancer. I was advised by my vet previously to not put Gilby through he stress of an anesthetic as he wasn't showing any signs of aggression/spraying etc, which is why he still had his testicles. The op was a success, and he recovered well. He's also, since living with mum, had one or two episodes of stasis and his first dental burring last year - which he also recovered from. He's really been a trooper.
On Wed afternoon I received a call from my mum. She took him to the vet because he wasn't eating hay, only nuggets, and was dropping weight (which we all know is bad and stasis comes to mind). Upon examination the vet called him in for emergency sedation to look at his teeth as he suspected another dental issue. Then, he found that his back teeth on one side were wobbly, so he anesthetized him and went to remove them - and in doing so, found "cancer" had overtaken his jaw, leading to the issues. I've still not had complete clarification of what was done, but I believe he removed some/all of his back/cheek teeth on one side, cut out as much of the growths as he could, (they appear to have cut from the outside of his jaw, in) and let mum take him home, "for a short while". I called the vet for a bit of clarification as this was a complete shock to me, and I asked how the vet could be sure it was cancer, as opposed to benign tumours, and he said that the only was to find out would be to have a lab test them, but it wasn't worth it anyway as he assumed it to be cancer and that it would return, his teeth were missing on one side, and he would eventually starve to death. I asked if he was suggesting euthanasia, and he said yes. He said that if I wanted to ensure I see my rabbit I'd better come up immediately, as he didn't have high hopes for him even lasing a few days.
So I came up immediately. This is how it's gone:
Thurs night (day after his operation) - he was withdrawn, one ear lopped, not drinking, eating softened pellets, and when I got him out he hopped into the corner, under a cabinet, and didn't interact. He hadn't groomed himself after eating mushy, wet nuggets and recovery. I felt that it was clear that I needed to have him put to sleep as he was showing all the signs of a desperately unhappy bunny in pain. He had just had major surgery though.
Fri - The day started and I continued to think this is bad. One ear still lopped (he's always had uppy ears) and he was still in the corner of his cage, withdrawn. I wondered if letting him out the night before had been too much too soon so I left him to rest in his cage in the day. In the evening (after his metacam I may add), I let him out, sat on the floor, and gave him lots and lots of love. We sat watching a film on my laptop and I stroked him the whole time. He then started grooming me (licking) and also started grooming himself that evening. Then he hopped about and was inquisitive and cheeky - just like himself! As for feeding - he wouldn't touch the recovery at all, but he hoovered up his softened nuggets and even tried to eat hay and greens - although it was utterly heartbreaking to watch him unable to eat those successfully because he couldn't chew.
Sat - even better. He started drinking water from his bottle too (he'd not touched it since his op), he was giving and receiving affection, following me about everywhere, inquisitive, charismatic, huge appetite (soft nuggets). He even hopped right up onto the chair next to me and hopped back down again! In fact, I just totally forgot for a second that he was poorly at all, so I gave him some cabbage. He ran up to it and grabbed it enthusiastically, then I quickly remembered - because try as he might, he couldn't chew it. I started crying. I took it off him and cut it up into tiny bits and he managed that, then started hopping around again.
Today is much of the same. It's like there's nothing wrong with him, aside from the fact he clearly can't chew hard food like hay or veg, and can only eat soft food.
I'm very confused. I am obviously delighted to see such an improvement, but have so many questions and doubts. I must make it clear - I know putting your loved one to sleep is the kindest thing to do if the situation calls for it, and I'm prepared to do that, if I must. On the journey up here on Thursday I sobbed and prepared myself for the worst, then prepared some more for the inevitable the first day I was up here and Gilby was so withdrawn and depressed. But these last couple of days are a complete contradiction to that - he's alert, happy, hoppy, hungry, and affectionate. It's also worth noting that the vet said that he didn't have any hopes for Gilby making it even a few days - so what the hell is going on?
Here are my concerns:
1) The vet. I know all too well the importance of finding an experienced rabbit vet. I had a wonderful vet when Gilby lived with me. Once I took him to get his annual pet check and he saw a different vet to my usual. He told me that Gilby was underweight (the other vet praised me for keeping him on the lean side with a diet of 80% hay) and he said he was geriatric when he was 6 at the time, and I should be thinking about what I wanted to do in the future...we all know that buns can live twice as long as that! Unfortunately my mum lives in a rural area, and there's only one veterinary practice nearby. The very fact that this vet said it was cancer as opposed to growths (without having done a biopsy), when cancer in that part of a rabbit is very rare, the fact he said he's very old now, as well as the fact they didn't give mum antibiotics to take home, makes me wonder (unless that's ok?). Then there's his "I wouldn't even expect him to make it a few days" prognosis. They gave him metacam, to be administered once a day, that's all - is that right? I really want to have full confidence in this vet. There's no other choice, and I really want to have full confidence. I hope he's right and I just need telling that.
2) Could the metacam be masking all his pain and leading him to behave "normally"? And if so, can metacam be administered long term / for life?
3) Can rabbits survive without their molars on one side? Is he just unable to chew because he had the op so recently, or is this a permanent thing? Will he eat hay after the wounds have healed, or will he be on mushed pellets forever? If the latter, should I feed him more pellets than usual, as he's not eating hay? But surely he'll get stasis? The vet said "he'll quite happily eat on one side" but also, contradictory said "he's had his teeth removed and his jaw is damaged so he'll starve to death (in days or maybe a couple of weeks)". I cannot find any info on this at all online, aside from mention of one rabbit who has no teeth and is "happy".
4) If the tumours have been cut away, can it get better now? Or is the damage done. Is it going to grow back and cause more trauma for my Gilby in the future.
The vet said Gilby wouldn't make it very long yet Gilby has improved every day. He still can't chew, but loves his mushed food. He is on a small dose of metacam.
I thought this decision would be easy, but it's not. I'm a rollercoaster of emotions. I read online that when making a decision on euthanasia it's helpful to look at appetite, affection and attitude. He has all of these. Then I was criticized for being too scientific, and was told to just go on my heart. Well, my heart on Thurs and Fri morning was to let him go. My heart now is telling me that's surely not the right decision - he seems so happy now and has made such an improvement. I'm going to stay here on the sofa for as long as I need - I can't leave him now.
I'm seeing the vet tomorrow. I don't know what to do. I'm sorry for the essay by the way - but any advice, no matter how big or small, would be so gratefully appreciated. Please help. I don't have any experience of this and really want to make sure I do the right thing.
I am blaming myself for all of this and feel enormous guilt for the fact I "gave him up" to live with my mum. Perhaps he has grown depressed - my mum tries her best, and I am very grateful to her, but is not a natural pet person. I wonder if the tumours could've been caught earlier - I hadn't seen him for the longest stretch ever, 2 months, and now this happens. I'm not suggesting I'm some wonder woman and can prevent tumours - but it adds to the guilt. Learning that he had all those tumours causing his teeth to be loose is just gut wrenching. My poor, poor baby, being in all that pain and masking it well until the point of crisis :-(
What would you do? I want to make the best decision. x
I'm new here, and was hoping I might be able to get some feedback/advice from fellow bunny owners. I'm very desperate.
In Jan 2008 I adopted Gilbert (aka "Gilby") - a baby lionhead cross bunny. He's my first pet - and has been my much-loved companion through my 20s and 30s. I don't have children and he's always lived in the house. He's always been a sweet-natured, intelligent and highly charismatic bunny, never shown any aggression, I've been so lucky, and has been by my side always, (I suffer from long-term health problems, and have been housebound at times, so we really were joined at the hip!) - that is, until last year, whereby due to a change in my living circumstances, I had to make a very hard decision - to let my mum take care of him as he could no longer live with me. This has been very painful, many tears have been shed and not a day goes past whereby I don't feel guilt and sadness, but it was utterly necessary and I figured that having him live with my family, and therefore getting to see him as often as I see my family, (they live 250 miles away so this is about once every month) was better than giving him up altogether.
The past 18 months have not been easy for Gilbert. On a visit earlier this year I picked him up and noticed his testicle was the size of a large conker - it turned out to be testicular cancer. I was advised by my vet previously to not put Gilby through he stress of an anesthetic as he wasn't showing any signs of aggression/spraying etc, which is why he still had his testicles. The op was a success, and he recovered well. He's also, since living with mum, had one or two episodes of stasis and his first dental burring last year - which he also recovered from. He's really been a trooper.
On Wed afternoon I received a call from my mum. She took him to the vet because he wasn't eating hay, only nuggets, and was dropping weight (which we all know is bad and stasis comes to mind). Upon examination the vet called him in for emergency sedation to look at his teeth as he suspected another dental issue. Then, he found that his back teeth on one side were wobbly, so he anesthetized him and went to remove them - and in doing so, found "cancer" had overtaken his jaw, leading to the issues. I've still not had complete clarification of what was done, but I believe he removed some/all of his back/cheek teeth on one side, cut out as much of the growths as he could, (they appear to have cut from the outside of his jaw, in) and let mum take him home, "for a short while". I called the vet for a bit of clarification as this was a complete shock to me, and I asked how the vet could be sure it was cancer, as opposed to benign tumours, and he said that the only was to find out would be to have a lab test them, but it wasn't worth it anyway as he assumed it to be cancer and that it would return, his teeth were missing on one side, and he would eventually starve to death. I asked if he was suggesting euthanasia, and he said yes. He said that if I wanted to ensure I see my rabbit I'd better come up immediately, as he didn't have high hopes for him even lasing a few days.
So I came up immediately. This is how it's gone:
Thurs night (day after his operation) - he was withdrawn, one ear lopped, not drinking, eating softened pellets, and when I got him out he hopped into the corner, under a cabinet, and didn't interact. He hadn't groomed himself after eating mushy, wet nuggets and recovery. I felt that it was clear that I needed to have him put to sleep as he was showing all the signs of a desperately unhappy bunny in pain. He had just had major surgery though.
Fri - The day started and I continued to think this is bad. One ear still lopped (he's always had uppy ears) and he was still in the corner of his cage, withdrawn. I wondered if letting him out the night before had been too much too soon so I left him to rest in his cage in the day. In the evening (after his metacam I may add), I let him out, sat on the floor, and gave him lots and lots of love. We sat watching a film on my laptop and I stroked him the whole time. He then started grooming me (licking) and also started grooming himself that evening. Then he hopped about and was inquisitive and cheeky - just like himself! As for feeding - he wouldn't touch the recovery at all, but he hoovered up his softened nuggets and even tried to eat hay and greens - although it was utterly heartbreaking to watch him unable to eat those successfully because he couldn't chew.
Sat - even better. He started drinking water from his bottle too (he'd not touched it since his op), he was giving and receiving affection, following me about everywhere, inquisitive, charismatic, huge appetite (soft nuggets). He even hopped right up onto the chair next to me and hopped back down again! In fact, I just totally forgot for a second that he was poorly at all, so I gave him some cabbage. He ran up to it and grabbed it enthusiastically, then I quickly remembered - because try as he might, he couldn't chew it. I started crying. I took it off him and cut it up into tiny bits and he managed that, then started hopping around again.
Today is much of the same. It's like there's nothing wrong with him, aside from the fact he clearly can't chew hard food like hay or veg, and can only eat soft food.
I'm very confused. I am obviously delighted to see such an improvement, but have so many questions and doubts. I must make it clear - I know putting your loved one to sleep is the kindest thing to do if the situation calls for it, and I'm prepared to do that, if I must. On the journey up here on Thursday I sobbed and prepared myself for the worst, then prepared some more for the inevitable the first day I was up here and Gilby was so withdrawn and depressed. But these last couple of days are a complete contradiction to that - he's alert, happy, hoppy, hungry, and affectionate. It's also worth noting that the vet said that he didn't have any hopes for Gilby making it even a few days - so what the hell is going on?
Here are my concerns:
1) The vet. I know all too well the importance of finding an experienced rabbit vet. I had a wonderful vet when Gilby lived with me. Once I took him to get his annual pet check and he saw a different vet to my usual. He told me that Gilby was underweight (the other vet praised me for keeping him on the lean side with a diet of 80% hay) and he said he was geriatric when he was 6 at the time, and I should be thinking about what I wanted to do in the future...we all know that buns can live twice as long as that! Unfortunately my mum lives in a rural area, and there's only one veterinary practice nearby. The very fact that this vet said it was cancer as opposed to growths (without having done a biopsy), when cancer in that part of a rabbit is very rare, the fact he said he's very old now, as well as the fact they didn't give mum antibiotics to take home, makes me wonder (unless that's ok?). Then there's his "I wouldn't even expect him to make it a few days" prognosis. They gave him metacam, to be administered once a day, that's all - is that right? I really want to have full confidence in this vet. There's no other choice, and I really want to have full confidence. I hope he's right and I just need telling that.
2) Could the metacam be masking all his pain and leading him to behave "normally"? And if so, can metacam be administered long term / for life?
3) Can rabbits survive without their molars on one side? Is he just unable to chew because he had the op so recently, or is this a permanent thing? Will he eat hay after the wounds have healed, or will he be on mushed pellets forever? If the latter, should I feed him more pellets than usual, as he's not eating hay? But surely he'll get stasis? The vet said "he'll quite happily eat on one side" but also, contradictory said "he's had his teeth removed and his jaw is damaged so he'll starve to death (in days or maybe a couple of weeks)". I cannot find any info on this at all online, aside from mention of one rabbit who has no teeth and is "happy".
4) If the tumours have been cut away, can it get better now? Or is the damage done. Is it going to grow back and cause more trauma for my Gilby in the future.
The vet said Gilby wouldn't make it very long yet Gilby has improved every day. He still can't chew, but loves his mushed food. He is on a small dose of metacam.
I thought this decision would be easy, but it's not. I'm a rollercoaster of emotions. I read online that when making a decision on euthanasia it's helpful to look at appetite, affection and attitude. He has all of these. Then I was criticized for being too scientific, and was told to just go on my heart. Well, my heart on Thurs and Fri morning was to let him go. My heart now is telling me that's surely not the right decision - he seems so happy now and has made such an improvement. I'm going to stay here on the sofa for as long as I need - I can't leave him now.
I'm seeing the vet tomorrow. I don't know what to do. I'm sorry for the essay by the way - but any advice, no matter how big or small, would be so gratefully appreciated. Please help. I don't have any experience of this and really want to make sure I do the right thing.
I am blaming myself for all of this and feel enormous guilt for the fact I "gave him up" to live with my mum. Perhaps he has grown depressed - my mum tries her best, and I am very grateful to her, but is not a natural pet person. I wonder if the tumours could've been caught earlier - I hadn't seen him for the longest stretch ever, 2 months, and now this happens. I'm not suggesting I'm some wonder woman and can prevent tumours - but it adds to the guilt. Learning that he had all those tumours causing his teeth to be loose is just gut wrenching. My poor, poor baby, being in all that pain and masking it well until the point of crisis :-(
What would you do? I want to make the best decision. x