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Please help! Euthanasia decision to be made :-( Molar extraction, tumours, distraught

Hi lovely friends, I just wanted to apologise for not thanking everyone individually and for the late reply; I've only had my phone for internet, and after typing out a long reply after Gilby's visit to the vet, I seemed to have lost it due to a lack of signal.
Thank you all again for sharing your personal stories and for the advice.
Gilby is still with us :)
I will write back properly when I get to a computer - and will peruse the v other threads too of course. Give and take!
Until then, x
 
Hi lovely friends, I just wanted to apologise for not thanking everyone individually and for the late reply; I've only had my phone for internet, and after typing out a long reply after Gilby's visit to the vet, I seemed to have lost it due to a lack of signal.
Thank you all again for sharing your personal stories and for the advice.
Gilby is still with us :)
I will write back properly when I get to a computer - and will peruse the v other threads too of course. Give and take!
Until then, x


I've thought of you Sibby and it's so good to hear back from you.

And also that your lovely Gilby is still with you :love::D:love:
 
Hi lovely friends, I just wanted to apologise for not thanking everyone individually and for the late reply; I've only had my phone for internet, and after typing out a long reply after Gilby's visit to the vet, I seemed to have lost it due to a lack of signal.
Thank you all again for sharing your personal stories and for the advice.
Gilby is still with us :)
I will write back properly when I get to a computer - and will peruse the v other threads too of course. Give and take!
Until then, x

I hope that Gilby will continue to remain comfortable for as long as possible :)
 
Hi folks,
I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back on here to firstly thank you all so much for your help and advice, and secondly to update you.

When I took Gilby back to that vet, they were really shocked he was doing so well and agreed he wasn't ready to be put down.
I asked about how they could be sure it was cancer and not another type of lump (like an abscess) and I was told it looked like cancer.
Gilbert was not offered any antibiotics nor painkillers, but I told my mum to double his dose of metacam (thanks to people on here for clarifying buns can be on metacam long term).
Over the last fortnight, Gilby went downhill again. I came up to visit, and saw he wasn't eating properly and I feared stasis, and noticed his jaw was misaligned and his teeth were cutting into his mouth.
I took him to a rabbit savvy vet, Sarah Pellet at Animates (thank you for the recommendation and links) who said it wasn't cancer at all, it was end stage dental disease, and the lump was an abscess that had been eating away at the jaw - basically Gilby was misdiagnosed previously. She did a conscious x-ray, which wasn't easy as Gilby kept moving, but it showed fractures to the jaw, and she confirmed it was all very lumpy. I cried so much, as I didn't know Gilby was suffering so much over the past few months.
I was offered three options: 1. A GA with the view to draining the abscess, giving him a dental and doing x-rays - however she clarified there was no cure and said it would be likely that the jaw would be too delicate to withstand surgery and she said there'd be a high chance that she'd think it kindest to not wake him up. 2. Palliative care 3. Euthanasia.
I was so shocked, I opted for palliative care, and paid out quite a bit for 5 different meds - antibiotics, painkillers, emeraid and ranitidine for his stomach. She clipped his front teeth too as they were cutting into his lip.

When I got him home I felt I'd regretted not having him pts as he stopped eating altogether, meaning I had to syringe his meds, which was distressing for him, especially with his painful jaw. He wasn't interested in interacting either, and only hopped into quiet dark corners.

Sarah has been on leave so I wasn't able to ring her, but I called the receptionist, who told me to syringe feed him. I did, but it was distressing for him - far worse than when I had to do it last year for stasis.

I felt "it is time". And so did my mum.

Then he went and perked up again. The syring feeding worked and he started eating and pooping, so I've stopped. The past two days he's been bounding about (periodically, not all the time), eating his softened food, and has started following me about again - however my mum has been upset by it all and keeps telling me to bear in mind that the rabbit savvy vet did give him a prognosis of days to weeks at best, and she reminded me that he is pumped full of painkillers, and has a jaw that's being eaten away.

I know rabbits hide their pain, being prey animals. I also know that he's on all these meds, and I also recognise that my mum can't give him the same attention as me - she's got arthritis and can't sit down on the floor and pet him for example. And I was very upset to see the results of the x-ray.

With this in mind, I feel I have to have him pts. It still doesn't sit well though - sometimes I'm sure that's the right decision, and other times it fills me with panic, especially when he's following me about the place.

Sarah the rabbit-savvy vet explained that rabbits can rally and go up and down and she's right, that's what Gilbert is doing. She's still on leave until Friday so I can't take him there, but I found a brand new vets which specialises in small pets that's opened in the village here (I don't want to take him back to the vets that misdiagnosed him and didn't give him antibiotics and painkillers for his abscesses for months) and I called by today, without Gilby, for a chat and they said they can do it via the tummy, or possibly the ear, and that I can hold him. I keep crying every time I think about it, but I think that on balance, my mum's the one who has to look after him when I'm not here, the rabbit savvy vet gave him days-weeks (mind you, he had that prognosis 3-4 months ago!) and said there's no cure, just palliative care, and maybe with him being my first pet and having never gone through this before, maybe I'm misreading all the "positives" and I ought to get it done. Last week when we got back from the vets and he didn't eat or interact I was sure it was the right time to have him pts. Now he's chipper again and I just can't read it.

Is it always this difficult to make the decision? Am I keeping him alive for my sake?
I'd find it far easier if he hadn't have been so chipper these last couple of days. I honestly just wish I didn't have too make that decision and hope that he'd just pass away naturally - but pain free.
I love him so much, hate to think of him suffering, and just want the very best for him.

Please don't feel you have to reply to this - I know I disappeared for a couple of months. I do however want to give a huge thanks to the helpful advice I was given before - and especially wanted to thank you for recommending another rabbit savvy vet. Sarah at Animates was wonderful. Just a shame I hadn't taken Gilby there before.
 
I have had a couple of rabbits in a similar situation to yours. They were treated by FHB (now retired). One had bits of lower jaw missing and was offered an op to remove all the affected jaw - which I thought was a step too far, even though it was very fragile anyway. He did have some structural integrity left and was happy in himself. He was on depocillin injections at home and metacam - both long term. Front teeth were shortened as needed (about every 2 weeks) and abscess surgery in the early days. Food was modified to whatever they could manage (mainly softened pellets, baby food and grated / finely chopped veg). Weight was monitored weekly.

Both rabbits had an extra 12-18 months on this treatment. You couldn't tell in passing that there was anything wrong with them as they bounced round the garden. They can have a good quality of life, but it depends on so many (often random) factors. Cost and your time also come into it - don't underestimate these. They can go downhill very quickly as well. There will be no miracle cure, no matter how hard you try.

PTS is always an option. If the rabbit or the caregiver can't cope (and it's not easy to live with as it takes over your life as well) then PTS peacefully and pain-free is the ultimate (and hardest?) gift from you. Whatever decision you make will be the right one - because you cared enough to make it. Hugs to everyone.
 
Hi folks,
I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back on here to firstly thank you all so much for your help and advice, and secondly to update you.

When I took Gilby back to that vet, they were really shocked he was doing so well and agreed he wasn't ready to be put down.
I asked about how they could be sure it was cancer and not another type of lump (like an abscess) and I was told it looked like cancer.
Gilbert was not offered any antibiotics nor painkillers, but I told my mum to double his dose of metacam (thanks to people on here for clarifying buns can be on metacam long term).
Over the last fortnight, Gilby went downhill again. I came up to visit, and saw he wasn't eating properly and I feared stasis, and noticed his jaw was misaligned and his teeth were cutting into his mouth.
I took him to a rabbit savvy vet, Sarah Pellet at Animates (thank you for the recommendation and links) who said it wasn't cancer at all, it was end stage dental disease, and the lump was an abscess that had been eating away at the jaw - basically Gilby was misdiagnosed previously. She did a conscious x-ray, which wasn't easy as Gilby kept moving, but it showed fractures to the jaw, and she confirmed it was all very lumpy. I cried so much, as I didn't know Gilby was suffering so much over the past few months.
I was offered three options: 1. A GA with the view to draining the abscess, giving him a dental and doing x-rays - however she clarified there was no cure and said it would be likely that the jaw would be too delicate to withstand surgery and she said there'd be a high chance that she'd think it kindest to not wake him up. 2. Palliative care 3. Euthanasia.
I was so shocked, I opted for palliative care, and paid out quite a bit for 5 different meds - antibiotics, painkillers, emeraid and ranitidine for his stomach. She clipped his front teeth too as they were cutting into his lip.

When I got him home I felt I'd regretted not having him pts as he stopped eating altogether, meaning I had to syringe his meds, which was distressing for him, especially with his painful jaw. He wasn't interested in interacting either, and only hopped into quiet dark corners.

Sarah has been on leave so I wasn't able to ring her, but I called the receptionist, who told me to syringe feed him. I did, but it was distressing for him - far worse than when I had to do it last year for stasis.

I felt "it is time". And so did my mum.

Then he went and perked up again. The syring feeding worked and he started eating and pooping, so I've stopped. The past two days he's been bounding about (periodically, not all the time), eating his softened food, and has started following me about again - however my mum has been upset by it all and keeps telling me to bear in mind that the rabbit savvy vet did give him a prognosis of days to weeks at best, and she reminded me that he is pumped full of painkillers, and has a jaw that's being eaten away.

I know rabbits hide their pain, being prey animals. I also know that he's on all these meds, and I also recognise that my mum can't give him the same attention as me - she's got arthritis and can't sit down on the floor and pet him for example. And I was very upset to see the results of the x-ray.

With this in mind, I feel I have to have him pts. It still doesn't sit well though - sometimes I'm sure that's the right decision, and other times it fills me with panic, especially when he's following me about the place.

Sarah the rabbit-savvy vet explained that rabbits can rally and go up and down and she's right, that's what Gilbert is doing. She's still on leave until Friday so I can't take him there, but I found a brand new vets which specialises in small pets that's opened in the village here (I don't want to take him back to the vets that misdiagnosed him and didn't give him antibiotics and painkillers for his abscesses for months) and I called by today, without Gilby, for a chat and they said they can do it via the tummy, or possibly the ear, and that I can hold him. I keep crying every time I think about it, but I think that on balance, my mum's the one who has to look after him when I'm not here, the rabbit savvy vet gave him days-weeks (mind you, he had that prognosis 3-4 months ago!) and said there's no cure, just palliative care, and maybe with him being my first pet and having never gone through this before, maybe I'm misreading all the "positives" and I ought to get it done. Last week when we got back from the vets and he didn't eat or interact I was sure it was the right time to have him pts. Now he's chipper again and I just can't read it.

Is it always this difficult to make the decision? Am I keeping him alive for my sake?
I'd find it far easier if he hadn't have been so chipper these last couple of days. I honestly just wish I didn't have too make that decision and hope that he'd just pass away naturally - but pain free.
I love him so much, hate to think of him suffering, and just want the very best for him.

Please don't feel you have to reply to this - I know I disappeared for a couple of months. I do however want to give a huge thanks to the helpful advice I was given before - and especially wanted to thank you for recommending another rabbit savvy vet. Sarah at Animates was wonderful. Just a shame I hadn't taken Gilby there before.

I am sorry to hear that Gilby has such severe Dental disease. Assessing quality of life is really one that needs to be done on an individual case basis. What one Rabbit can cope with regarding treatment, hands-on care etc, another Rabbit would find to be far too stressful. The people best placed to assess quality of life are those closest to the Rabbit, their main care giver(s). A Rabbit Savvy Vet can give a clinical opinion, but that is never the full picture. A good working relationship with a Vet means mutual trust, trust that the Vet will be honest about the clinical situation and it's implications re prognosis and that the care giver's input about how the individual Rabbit is coping at home on a day to day basis will be taken into account too.

This link may be useful to take a look at

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/quality-of-life.html
 
Hi folks,
I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get back on here to firstly thank you all so much for your help and advice, and secondly to update you.

When I took Gilby back to that vet, they were really shocked he was doing so well and agreed he wasn't ready to be put down.
I asked about how they could be sure it was cancer and not another type of lump (like an abscess) and I was told it looked like cancer.
Gilbert was not offered any antibiotics nor painkillers, but I told my mum to double his dose of metacam (thanks to people on here for clarifying buns can be on metacam long term).
Over the last fortnight, Gilby went downhill again. I came up to visit, and saw he wasn't eating properly and I feared stasis, and noticed his jaw was misaligned and his teeth were cutting into his mouth.
I took him to a rabbit savvy vet, Sarah Pellet at Animates (thank you for the recommendation and links) who said it wasn't cancer at all, it was end stage dental disease, and the lump was an abscess that had been eating away at the jaw - basically Gilby was misdiagnosed previously. She did a conscious x-ray, which wasn't easy as Gilby kept moving, but it showed fractures to the jaw, and she confirmed it was all very lumpy. I cried so much, as I didn't know Gilby was suffering so much over the past few months.
I was offered three options: 1. A GA with the view to draining the abscess, giving him a dental and doing x-rays - however she clarified there was no cure and said it would be likely that the jaw would be too delicate to withstand surgery and she said there'd be a high chance that she'd think it kindest to not wake him up. 2. Palliative care 3. Euthanasia.
I was so shocked, I opted for palliative care, and paid out quite a bit for 5 different meds - antibiotics, painkillers, emeraid and ranitidine for his stomach. She clipped his front teeth too as they were cutting into his lip.

When I got him home I felt I'd regretted not having him pts as he stopped eating altogether, meaning I had to syringe his meds, which was distressing for him, especially with his painful jaw. He wasn't interested in interacting either, and only hopped into quiet dark corners.

Sarah has been on leave so I wasn't able to ring her, but I called the receptionist, who told me to syringe feed him. I did, but it was distressing for him - far worse than when I had to do it last year for stasis.

I felt "it is time". And so did my mum.

Then he went and perked up again. The syring feeding worked and he started eating and pooping, so I've stopped. The past two days he's been bounding about (periodically, not all the time), eating his softened food, and has started following me about again - however my mum has been upset by it all and keeps telling me to bear in mind that the rabbit savvy vet did give him a prognosis of days to weeks at best, and she reminded me that he is pumped full of painkillers, and has a jaw that's being eaten away.

I know rabbits hide their pain, being prey animals. I also know that he's on all these meds, and I also recognise that my mum can't give him the same attention as me - she's got arthritis and can't sit down on the floor and pet him for example. And I was very upset to see the results of the x-ray.

With this in mind, I feel I have to have him pts. It still doesn't sit well though - sometimes I'm sure that's the right decision, and other times it fills me with panic, especially when he's following me about the place.

Sarah the rabbit-savvy vet explained that rabbits can rally and go up and down and she's right, that's what Gilbert is doing. She's still on leave until Friday so I can't take him there, but I found a brand new vets which specialises in small pets that's opened in the village here (I don't want to take him back to the vets that misdiagnosed him and didn't give him antibiotics and painkillers for his abscesses for months) and I called by today, without Gilby, for a chat and they said they can do it via the tummy, or possibly the ear, and that I can hold him. I keep crying every time I think about it, but I think that on balance, my mum's the one who has to look after him when I'm not here, the rabbit savvy vet gave him days-weeks (mind you, he had that prognosis 3-4 months ago!) and said there's no cure, just palliative care, and maybe with him being my first pet and having never gone through this before, maybe I'm misreading all the "positives" and I ought to get it done. Last week when we got back from the vets and he didn't eat or interact I was sure it was the right time to have him pts. Now he's chipper again and I just can't read it.

Is it always this difficult to make the decision? Am I keeping him alive for my sake?
I'd find it far easier if he hadn't have been so chipper these last couple of days. I honestly just wish I didn't have too make that decision and hope that he'd just pass away naturally - but pain free.
I love him so much, hate to think of him suffering, and just want the very best for him.

Please don't feel you have to reply to this - I know I disappeared for a couple of months. I do however want to give a huge thanks to the helpful advice I was given before - and especially wanted to thank you for recommending another rabbit savvy vet. Sarah at Animates was wonderful. Just a shame I hadn't taken Gilby there before.


Hi Sibby

It's nice to hear from you again, but sorry to hear about Gilby :(

It's very difficult to know when to make that decision. It's such an individual thing for both you and the rabbit. I think you have to get yourself into the position where you know it's something that needs to be done, and you won't regret it afterwards. Also (sorry this is sad) to think of *how* you would like it done. I always hold my rabbits and cuddle them (often with their partner) till the end. Find out from the vet how they do it and explain your wishes.

I have found this link helpful:

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-8/quality-of-life.html

I am thinking of you all xx
 
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