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First Sparky and now Honey

lauraj27

Warren Scout
So some of you may remember that back in May time Sparky had a seizure which turned out to EC.

On Sunday we got Honey out for a run in the kitchen, she was a bit unsteady but we thought it might have been because she is having a massive moult and had loads of fur around her feet. She was moving around, eating, drinking, using her litter tray etc.

Last night before bed (11pm) though I found her laying on the floor with her head to one side and she had basically folded herself in half. When she tried to stand up she started spinning in circles.

Immediately transferred her to a padded carry case and dug out the panacur, metacam, zantec, gut motility drug, syringes and recovery food.

Thankfully she didn't need the food; she was chewing and drinking all night long.

This morning her head was more level. OH took her to the vet and the exotics vet, who is very rabbit savy and literally saved Sparky earlier in the year. She said that Honey is displaying typical EC symptoms but it does seem that only her head/balance is affected because she can hold herself up on her legs and she really doesn't like being exposed to light.


So OH came home with more panacur, metacam, zantec, gut motility and syringes.

We are treating all the bunnies with a 28 day course of panacur as now this year 2 out of 5 of them have had EC. The buns are all separate (which I know isn't ideal but we got them all at different times and tried various bonds but none worked) but I don't why they have both had it. Ever since Sparky had it earlier in the year I have been super paranoid about disinfecting and cleaning but it hasn't been enough and I am so worried that Sparky might have a relapse and that the other 3 will also get it.

What can I do to stop this? Are there any cleaning products I can get that will minimise the chances of EC in my buns?
 
Sorry to hear of your Rabbit's problems with suspected EC. Do they have access to shared exercise areas ? If so and if this is on grass that could be one potential source of cross infection as grass cannot be disinfected and EC spores can remain viable outside of the host for at least 30 days.

A 10% bleach solution will kill EC spores, obviously bleached areas will need to be thoroughly rinsed and dried before the Rabbits can have access to them. A steam cleaner is a useful piece of equipment to have as steam will kill EC spores and it is non toxic.

It is generally advised that all areas accessible to 'EC Rabbits' are bleach cleaned/steam cleaned on day 21 and day 28 of the course of Panacur treatment

Do you use hay racks to try to avoid any Rabbit ingesting urine soiled hay ?

I hope that Honey will make a good recovery and that none of the other Rabbits become symptomatic.

Just another thought, has the Vet ruled out any possibility of Honey's symptoms being due to middle ear disease rather than EC ? Especially if Honey is a Lop, Lops being very prone to ear problems. Personally in the absence of a definitive diagnosis of EC (from titre testing) I would ask the Vet if a covering antibiotic might be a good idea incase the vestibular symptoms are due to a bacterial middle ear infection. It is sometimes not possible to be certain that middle ear disease is not an issue just by looking into the ear canals with an otoscope. Sometimes skull radiographs/CT scans are needed. But it is obviously not always appropriate to GA a Rabbit who is exhibiting severe vestibular symptoms. In such cases the Vet may decide that treatment to cover all bases (ie to cover for both EC and bacterial ear infection) may be a good idea.
 
So some of you may remember that back in May time Sparky had a seizure which turned out to EC.

On Sunday we got Honey out for a run in the kitchen, she was a bit unsteady but we thought it might have been because she is having a massive moult and had loads of fur around her feet. She was moving around, eating, drinking, using her litter tray etc.

Last night before bed (11pm) though I found her laying on the floor with her head to one side and she had basically folded herself in half. When she tried to stand up she started spinning in circles.

Immediately transferred her to a padded carry case and dug out the panacur, metacam, zantec, gut motility drug, syringes and recovery food.

Thankfully she didn't need the food; she was chewing and drinking all night long.

This morning her head was more level. OH took her to the vet and the exotics vet, who is very rabbit savy and literally saved Sparky earlier in the year. She said that Honey is displaying typical EC symptoms but it does seem that only her head/balance is affected because she can hold herself up on her legs and she really doesn't like being exposed to light.


So OH came home with more panacur, metacam, zantec, gut motility and syringes.

We are treating all the bunnies with a 28 day course of panacur as now this year 2 out of 5 of them have had EC. The buns are all separate (which I know isn't ideal but we got them all at different times and tried various bonds but none worked) but I don't why they have both had it. Ever since Sparky had it earlier in the year I have been super paranoid about disinfecting and cleaning but it hasn't been enough and I am so worried that Sparky might have a relapse and that the other 3 will also get it.

What can I do to stop this? Are there any cleaning products I can get that will minimise the chances of EC in my buns?


The first thought that comes to my mind is that there may be something else going on here. I have attributed things (and my vet too) to EC, only to find a little further down the road that there was another issue going on. Perhaps as well as EC, but maybe causing more problems.

There is some good info here about differential diagnoses for head tilt etc ...

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-8/head-tilt.html

http://www.rabbit.org/health/tilt.html

The current thinking about disinfecting for EC is that a 10% bleach solution can be used on days 21 and 28 of treatment to disinfect those areas (such as litter trays) that you are able to. Or else steam cleaning (if possible)

It sounds like you're doing everything possible for your buns. You could ask the vet about antibiotics. I realise some people will disagree with the idea of prophylactic antibiotics, but I feel they really have their place :D
 
Thank you for all of the vibes and guidance very much appreciated.

She is more upright both in herself generally and also in terms of her head.

She is still wobbly and disorientated when moving but its only day 3 or 4 of panacur treatment.


Jack's Jane - It is a shared exercise area which is a hard wooden floor covered in an old carpet which gets hoovered and steam cleaned between each bunny. They also have individual litter trays for when they are out and they get emptied and cleaned regularly. The hay is normally put on the floor / stuffed in cardboard tubes and because the buns are all litter trained, there shouldn't be any urine on the hay that they but obviously there is always a chance that it could.

Honey is a lop (Sparky isn't;he is nether land dwarf rex cross). The vet did check her ears and said there was some wax but no pus and if it was middle/inner ear infection she would expect there to be pus. The vet has asked us to telephone tomorrow with an update and an appointment has been booked for next Thursday to see how she is doing. What antibiotic would we be looking at? Would it be Marcobyl (sp?) as I know Sparky had that together with another tablet, both of which we had to crush up and mix with water and then put in a syringe.

The same vet that treated Sparky for his exciting adventure is also treating Honey. Honey is 7.5 years old (Sparky was 8 when he had his issues). She has been spayed and never had any health problems. She and Sparky are however, the only ones on the burgess excel mature rabbit nuggets but I doubt that's a link.


She is making improvements so hopefully it means the panacur and metacam etc are working and that it is EC but will certainly ask the vet whether we need to give her the tablets that Sparky had. I did write it down on the piece of paper I gave to the OH when he took her to the vet!
 
Thank you for all of the vibes and guidance very much appreciated.

She is more upright both in herself generally and also in terms of her head.

She is still wobbly and disorientated when moving but its only day 3 or 4 of panacur treatment.


Jack's Jane - It is a shared exercise area which is a hard wooden floor covered in an old carpet which gets hoovered and steam cleaned between each bunny. They also have individual litter trays for when they are out and they get emptied and cleaned regularly. The hay is normally put on the floor / stuffed in cardboard tubes and because the buns are all litter trained, there shouldn't be any urine on the hay that they but obviously there is always a chance that it could.

Honey is a lop (Sparky isn't;he is nether land dwarf rex cross). The vet did check her ears and said there was some wax but no pus and if it was middle/inner ear infection she would expect there to be pus. The vet has asked us to telephone tomorrow with an update and an appointment has been booked for next Thursday to see how she is doing. What antibiotic would we be looking at? Would it be Marcobyl (sp?) as I know Sparky had that together with another tablet, both of which we had to crush up and mix with water and then put in a syringe.

The same vet that treated Sparky for his exciting adventure is also treating Honey. Honey is 7.5 years old (Sparky was 8 when he had his issues). She has been spayed and never had any health problems. She and Sparky are however, the only ones on the burgess excel mature rabbit nuggets but I doubt that's a link.


She is making improvements so hopefully it means the panacur and metacam etc are working and that it is EC but will certainly ask the vet whether we need to give her the tablets that Sparky had. I did write it down on the piece of paper I gave to the OH when he took her to the vet!

That is what I would do in a similar situation :) Sometimes it is not possible to see pus if there is a big plug of wax in the ear canal, not even when using an otoscope.

I hope that Honey continues to show improvement xx
 
Thank you for all of the vibes and guidance very much appreciated.

She is more upright both in herself generally and also in terms of her head.

She is still wobbly and disorientated when moving but its only day 3 or 4 of panacur treatment.


Jack's Jane - It is a shared exercise area which is a hard wooden floor covered in an old carpet which gets hoovered and steam cleaned between each bunny. They also have individual litter trays for when they are out and they get emptied and cleaned regularly. The hay is normally put on the floor / stuffed in cardboard tubes and because the buns are all litter trained, there shouldn't be any urine on the hay that they but obviously there is always a chance that it could.

Honey is a lop (Sparky isn't;he is nether land dwarf rex cross). The vet did check her ears and said there was some wax but no pus and if it was middle/inner ear infection she would expect there to be pus. The vet has asked us to telephone tomorrow with an update and an appointment has been booked for next Thursday to see how she is doing. What antibiotic would we be looking at? Would it be Marcobyl (sp?) as I know Sparky had that together with another tablet, both of which we had to crush up and mix with water and then put in a syringe.

The same vet that treated Sparky for his exciting adventure is also treating Honey. Honey is 7.5 years old (Sparky was 8 when he had his issues). She has been spayed and never had any health problems. She and Sparky are however, the only ones on the burgess excel mature rabbit nuggets but I doubt that's a link.


She is making improvements so hopefully it means the panacur and metacam etc are working and that it is EC but will certainly ask the vet whether we need to give her the tablets that Sparky had. I did write it down on the piece of paper I gave to the OH when he took her to the vet!

You're very welcome :D

I hope the vet can advise you. It's always good to explore all possibilities as it's so difficult very often to determine exactly what's going on. And of course time isn't always on our side with these little creatures :)
 
***UPDATE*** The Saga continues

So we have been treating Honey with Panacur and Metacam and she seemed to be improving, head tilt was much less and she was bopping around quite a lot without much difficulty.

Monday night however we were back to square 1. Her head was completely tilted and she was bent in half again and was rolling around on the floor. (Am I the only one who finds this sight horrific to watch?)

Anyway she was still eating & drinking and is in a padded indoor pen.

OH took her back to the vet again today. One of her eyes is slower to react to the light than the other,whereas at her last check up last week they were both responding normally and this time the vet did say that there was some pus in her ear, so looking like an ear infection after all.

Bloods were taken today and the test results should be back in on Saturday or Monday and she may have to have an x-ray of her head. Vet thinks that maybe she had EC which has now led to the ear infection but the former may have cleared up but we won't know for sure until we get the bloods back. (I am just relaying the info from OH so if it doesn't sound right its likely because he's not relayed it properly!)

In the meantime we are carrying on with panacur,metacam and have been prescribed baytril. OH did ask about marcobyl (sp?) which was what Sparky had but apparently it does the same thing as baytril and the former is more hassle as it only comes in tablet form and has to be crushed up the mixed with water and then put in a syringe.

I really hope we can get her through this
 
Sending lots of vibes for her, bumping up in the hope someone can offer some advice :thumb:
 
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