Pine Pellet Bedding

Okay, so I bought a forty pound bag of horse stall pine pellets from tractor supply. (I live in the U.S) I read reviews and a few people said it was safe for their rabbits, they used it all the time. I looked it up and lots of people say the SHAVINGS are harmful to the rabbit not the pellets. (When the pellets get wet they turn into clumpy soggy saw dust. I have white care fresh bedding and cat litter over it --care fresh is on top, litter in middle, pellets at bottom with news paper--)

My questions are: Are the pellets really safe? What is harmful in pine shavings that can cause illnesses in Rabbits? What illnesses are cause by pine shavings? Will it lead to death? Are the pine pellets safer to use with rabbits than the pine shavings?

(Please answer these as thoroughly as possible, it'll stop me from asking so many more questions)

Some reviews said that there are harmful oils in the pine that is removed when pelletized making them safe. If these oils were still in the pellets it would be harmful to horses too. (Is this true, the oils in pine are harmful to rabbits, horses and other animals?)

Pine wood contains a chemical called anodar which is toxic to rabbits. I think it is only a small amount compared to cedar though which is known to cause respiratory problems. I don't know the exact amount contained in pine or whether that amount would be deemed toxic.

I think in shavings it is the dust which causes eye and respiratory problems, though I don't know precisely what kind.

There is a fair amount of debate over the suitability of pine in rabbit enclosures. Some say untreated pine is fine, some say no pine is fine.

I'm interested to see what others say but the info is hard to come by.

Supposedly it's the phenols that cause elevated liver enzymes and respiratory tract irritation. I think this link is where the claim that pine shavings are bad for rabbits, comes from. And since they have blood tests to back up the claim, it seems valid. There also are studies from mice and rats as well as humans, that seem to further back this up.

http://rabbit.org/litterboxes-and-liver-disease-2/

This link also has a list of the various litters available and whether or not they are safe for rabbits. Even if shavings were safe, I've found them to be dusty, messy, and not very absorbent, so wouldn't want to use them anyways. I've used wood pellets for several years and much prefer them over the other rabbit safe litters because of how well they control odor and how absorbent they are. Supposedly the heating process to make wood pellets, gets rid of the harmful phenols. I can only assume that since the HRS conducted tests that found the shavings to be harmful, that there were tests that concluded that wood pellets weren't harmful to rabbits. But this is just an assumption on my part.

I *think* the pine wood pellets are safe. I have those exact same ones from tractor supply, I don't use them for my rabbits but I use them for the cat litterpans and they work better than any litter I've ever tried. A lot of people use these for cats and I've never seen anyone say it's unsafe for them, I did quite a lot of research on cat forums and sites before buying them.

I wouldn't use actual pine/cedar sawdust or shavings. I would probably use these pellets for rabbits too if I had a need to. Assuming they truly are safe.

Jbun said:

Supposedly it's the phenols that cause elevated liver enzymes and respiratory tract irritation. I think this link is where the claim that pine shavings are bad for rabbits, comes from. And since they have blood tests to back up the claim, it seems valid. There also are studies from mice and rats as well as humans, that seem to further back this up.

http://rabbit.org/litterboxes-and-liver-disease-2/

This link also has a list of the various litters available and whether or not they are safe for rabbits. Even if shavings were safe, I've found them to be dusty, messy, and not very absorbent, so wouldn't want to use them anyways. I've used wood pellets for several years and much prefer them over the other rabbit safe litters because of how well they control odor and how absorbent they are. Supposedly the heating process to make wood pellets, gets rid of the harmful phenols. I can only assume that since the HRS conducted tests that found the shavings to be harmful, that there were tests that concluded that wood pellets weren't harmful to rabbits. But this is just an assumption on my part.

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Okay, that about covers the pine shavings. But I think the pine pellets are slightly different... would they still have a harmful affect. They are pretty much dried the same way as wood pellets.. are they not?

William said:

I *think* the pine wood pellets are safe. I have those exact same ones from tractor supply, I don't use them for my rabbits but I use them for the cat litterpans and they work better than any litter I've ever tried. A lot of people use these for cats and I've never seen anyone say it's unsafe for them, I did quite a lot of research on cat forums and sites before buying them.

I wouldn't use actual pine/cedar sawdust or shavings. I would probably use these pellets for rabbits too if I had a need to. Assuming they truly are safe.

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Have your cats ever show any differences (like regular eating habits are mess up or something) cuz the stuff in pine is harmful to horses so they had to take out the chemicals/oils... I believe so anyway

Wood pellets is just a broad term used that can refer to any variety of pelleted wood, including pine. They are all pelleted the same way, by heating then compressing. The type of wood pellets I use are pine. Fresh pine has a very strong smell from the phenols in it. The pine pellets I use hardly smell like pine at all because of the heating process.

Nina_Sunset said:

Have your cats ever show any differences (like regular eating habits are mess up or something) cuz the stuff in pine is harmful to horses so they had to take out the chemicals/oils... I believe so anyway

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Not all my cats use this litter but the ones that do haven't shown any issues. You have to be really careful with that kind of thing with cats (because of toxins and liver damage) so I made sure first and lots of cat owners use them. Supposedly they're the same thing as the popular litter Feline Pine, just a lot less expensive.

Plus yeah with horses they can be prone to getting respiratory problems so you would think people wouldn't use these pellets if they were dangerous.

Jbun said:

Wood pellets is just a broad term used that can refer to any variety of pelleted wood, including pine. They are all pelleted the same way, by heating then compressing. The type of wood pellets I use are pine. Fresh pine has a very strong smell from the phenols in it. The pine pellets I use hardly smell like pine at all because of the heating process.

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do you have your rabbits sitting directly on top of the pine pellets in their litter box(es)? Or do you have a grid/screen sitting over the top of the pellets so your bunnies can't reach them or do you put something over the pellets but the are sitting on it?

As Jbun said, I have read that it is the phenols in shavings that are the problem. I have also read that because of the process used to make the pellets that they are safe- the heat treatment itself.

I have used pine pellets in my cats litter tray and my rabbits litter tray for years. I do not use any screen so they are in contact with it, although my rabbit also has hay in a basket at one end which tends to get spread over it somewhat. I have used horse bedding pellets and cat litter pellets and they are the same.

Nina_Sunset said:

do you have your rabbits sitting directly on top of the pine pellets in their litter box(es)? Or do you have a grid/screen sitting over the top of the pellets so your bunnies can't reach them or do you put something over the pellets but the are sitting on it?

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My litter box set up is about 1 inch of pine pellets. Then I have a soft screen over the pellets to help make it softer for their feet as well as keep them from digging up the wet litter. I made the screen from the plastic pet screening used for windows, with a plastic border to cover the edges. Then there is some hay over that as well. I clean out the poop and peed on hay every day, and either spot clean wet spots in the litter every other day or dump the whole thing once or twice a week, depending on which rabbits litter box I'm cleaning.

Here's what my litter box set up looks like.

Zoobec said:

As Jbun said, I have read that it is the phenols in shavings that are the problem. I have also read that because of the process used to make the pellets that they are safe- the heat treatment itself.

I have used pine pellets in my cats litter tray and my rabbits litter tray for years. I do not use any screen so they are in contact with it, although my rabbit also has hay in a basket at one end which tends to get spread over it somewhat. I have used horse bedding pellets and cat litter pellets and they are the same.

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Have your rabbits ever actually nibbled on them or ate them? I think my 2 month old (white and tan) did (I have it mixed in with cat litter and carefresh bedding) I noticed crumbs of a pine pellet out of his cage, but it was only one. I think he didn't like the taste. Also, my nine month old (white and black) loves to dig and eat her litter for some odd reason, she's done it since she was little.. I think it's only chewing and spitting out because she hasn't had any problems (illnesses), but I do believe she has eaten some pine pellets. Would this be harmful to them in any way whether it be small or large amounts?

Nina_Sunset said:

Have your rabbits ever actually nibbled on them or ate them? I think my 2 month old (white and tan) did (I have it mixed in with cat litter and carefresh bedding) I noticed crumbs of a pine pellet out of his cage, but it was only one. I think he didn't like the taste. Also, my nine month old (white and black) loves to dig and eat her litter for some odd reason, she's done it since she was little.. I think it's only chewing and spitting out because she hasn't had any problems (illnesses), but I do believe she has eaten some pine pellets. Would this be harmful to them in any way whether it be small or large amounts?

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I've never seen any of mine eating them. I did have 2 rabbits who chewed everything, they even shredded the corner of a plastic cat litter tray once, though they didn't injest any. Even they didn't eat the pellet litter, as far as I know!

If they did eat them in more than a small amount I wouldn't use it. I would use newspaper topped with hay, I wouldn't use any other cat litter.