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E.Cuniculi and losing weight...

C

Chellewootty

New Kit
Hello

My rabbit, a dwarf lop called Shadow, has suspected E.cuniculi. He is on panacur. He is also on antibiotics for an ear infection for which I have seen no symptoms of whatsoever and Isathal for an abscess in his eye. He also has either mites or roundworm due to being so rundown, but they are not treating that at the moment. Shadow has lost lots of weight...started at 2.5kg and when we went on Monday he weighed 1.9kg. He is a bag of bones :( I have just weighed him using my own scales and he weighed 2.06kg...but obviously this could just be different scales and not necessarily that he has gained weight. I have bought everything going to tempt him....herbs, fruits, vegetables, Timothy hay! He is eating although definitely not as much as usual, with him preferring broccoli, baby sweetcorn, strawberries, Apple, parsley, dandelion, clover, cucumber. and whereas he used to LOVE his pellets (excel) now he's not so bothered. He doesn't seem to be drinking much, but it's hard to monitor...he has a bottle and a bowl of water and I'm sure some from the bowl is getting spilt! I've put him on junior excel pellets with added mint (we have two Baby buns) thinking maybe that would help, as I read somewhere they were more calorific. We have an appt at the vets in Thursday, with an appt after to put him to sleep as the vet was very pessimistic on Monday.

I have seen improvements...he is not quite as wobbly and is making some attempts to clean himself. I am not having to clean him now (he was disgusting before), he seems more interested and alert at times (he's always been a very subdued rabbit). My heart is telling me that he isn't ready to give up yet and he needs more time. We are 11 days into treatment with the panacur.

I'd appreciate ANY advice anyone has...

Thank you

Michelle x
 
Chellewootty said:
Hello

My rabbit, a dwarf lop called Shadow, has suspected E.cuniculi. He is on panacur. He is also on antibiotics for an ear infection for which I have seen no symptoms of whatsoever and Isathal for an abscess in his eye. He also has either mites or roundworm due to being so rundown, but they are not treating that at the moment. Shadow has lost lots of weight...started at 2.5kg and when we went on Monday he weighed 1.9kg. He is a bag of bones :( I have just weighed him using my own scales and he weighed 2.06kg...but obviously this could just be different scales and not necessarily that he has gained weight. I have bought everything going to tempt him....herbs, fruits, vegetables, Timothy hay! He is eating although definitely not as much as usual, with him preferring broccoli, baby sweetcorn, strawberries, Apple, parsley, dandelion, clover, cucumber. and whereas he used to LOVE his pellets (excel) now he's not so bothered. He doesn't seem to be drinking much, but it's hard to monitor...he has a bottle and a bowl of water and I'm sure some from the bowl is getting spilt! I've put him on junior excel pellets with added mint (we have two Baby buns) thinking maybe that would help, as I read somewhere they were more calorific. We have an appt at the vets in Thursday, with an appt after to put him to sleep as the vet was very pessimistic on Monday.

I have seen improvements...he is not quite as wobbly and is making some attempts to clean himself. I am not having to clean him now (he was disgusting before), he seems more interested and alert at times (he's always been a very subdued rabbit). My heart is telling me that he isn't ready to give up yet and he needs more time. We are 11 days into treatment with the panacur.

I'd appreciate ANY advice anyone has...

Thank you

Michelle x
Click to expand...

Hello Michelle

I am very sorry to hear how poorly Shadow is. What were his initial symptoms that led the Vet to suspect EC/Otitis ? A head tilt ? I am wondering if the Vet has also prescribed a non steroidal anti-inflammatory analgesic eg Metacam ? This is usually an essential part of the treatment for both EC and for ear infections to address the cellular inflammation (which causes the clinical symptoms such as head tilt) and any pain involved (ear infection can be very painful). The eye abscess may be painful too. A Rabbit in pain will not want to eat.

http://www.gwexotics.com/wccms-resources/a/5/0/e/77554b90-a660-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Otit/otitis.htm

http://lafeber.com/vet/presenting-problem-head-tilt-rolling-rabbits/

I assume that the Vet also made sure that there are no Dental problems going on too- eg molar spurs/a dental abscess ? Obviously any dental related problems will
make eating painful too.

If no analgesic cover has been given at all I would insist on it being given

http://www.floridarabbit.org/Importance_of_Pain_Control.pdf

Are you supplementing his nutritional input with syringe feeds ?

Can you try crushing up his pellet feed and see if he can eat it once it does not require so much chewing ? Or you could soften the pellets in boiled water and make them into a mash. If he has ear/dental/eye pain eating hard food would probably make the pain even worse, so soft mushy food may be something he can manage.

What is his poo output like ?
 
Last edited:
Jane has saved me a lot of typing -I was going to suggest Metacam, syringe feeding, check teeth.

Mites can be easily treated by the vet (ivermectin injection or spot-on)- but they do tend to be more prevalent in a run down rabbit.

11 days into treatment isn't that long, and you say he seems a bit better, just losing weight. Supplementary feeding should help with this. Pain relief can work wonders (and anti-inflammatories are part of the standard treatment for EC), and buy time for other treatments if needed. Then give everything else a chance to work. You are doing well so far. I wouldn't be giving up yet.
 
Chellewootty said:
Hello

My rabbit, a dwarf lop called Shadow, has suspected E.cuniculi. He is on panacur. He is also on antibiotics for an ear infection for which I have seen no symptoms of whatsoever and Isathal for an abscess in his eye. He also has either mites or roundworm due to being so rundown, but they are not treating that at the moment. Shadow has lost lots of weight...started at 2.5kg and when we went on Monday he weighed 1.9kg. He is a bag of bones :( I have just weighed him using my own scales and he weighed 2.06kg...but obviously this could just be different scales and not necessarily that he has gained weight. I have bought everything going to tempt him....herbs, fruits, vegetables, Timothy hay! He is eating although definitely not as much as usual, with him preferring broccoli, baby sweetcorn, strawberries, Apple, parsley, dandelion, clover, cucumber. and whereas he used to LOVE his pellets (excel) now he's not so bothered. He doesn't seem to be drinking much, but it's hard to monitor...he has a bottle and a bowl of water and I'm sure some from the bowl is getting spilt! I've put him on junior excel pellets with added mint (we have two Baby buns) thinking maybe that would help, as I read somewhere they were more calorific. We have an appt at the vets in Thursday, with an appt after to put him to sleep as the vet was very pessimistic on Monday.

I have seen improvements...he is not quite as wobbly and is making some attempts to clean himself. I am not having to clean him now (he was disgusting before), he seems more interested and alert at times (he's always been a very subdued rabbit). My heart is telling me that he isn't ready to give up yet and he needs more time. We are 11 days into treatment with the panacur.

I'd appreciate ANY advice anyone has...

Thank you

Michelle x
Click to expand...

Hello and welcome to the Forum Michelle :wave:

I am so sorry to hear about Shadow.

Can you let me know how the vet actually diagnosed the EC? I know you say it's suspected, and he's been treated for an ear infection that has shown no symptoms ... To me this needs a good diagnosis from a really good vet. If you were to tell me your vet is a real expert then I will take it as OK, but from what you've said I am not sure yet? No offence!

Regarding his weight loss, has the vet examined his teeth and excluded signs of dental issues? I would think that at the very least he would need to be on pain relief. This is useful not just for relieving pain but also to address any inflammation within the brain (due to EC) or elsewhere.

If he isn't eating all his normal food, I would think this is a priority, or he will certainly get more run down and weak and be unable to withstand an anaesthetic for a possible dental.

There is a lot of good info on EC here:

http://www.gwexotics.com/wccms-resources/a/5/0/e/77554b90-a660-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

In the meantime I would supplement his normal food with syringe feeds, and you can add ground up pellets or recovery food to Ella's Kitchen organic baby food, and add in a few porridge oats to his dried food.

Good luck xx
 
Hey.
There is a fb page called 'help for headtilt hoppers' which is really helpful. A lot of the members have bunnies with EC and will be able to give you some great advice alongside the people on here :)
Eleven days really isn't very long when it comes to treating EC so don't give up yet, especially if he is eating and is alert and cleaning himself. I'm quite surprised that your vet is so pessimistic and is suggesting pts before the full course of panacur is even finished. Personally I would be thinking about finding another vet.
 
Thank you so much for all your replies...I feel so much more hopeful and armed with things to discuss with the vet. Shadow's symptoms were/are weak hind legs and constantly losing his balance (this has definitely improved some), he has white patches on his eyes, which I now believe may be related to EC but this hasn't been said by vet. He has been 'knuckling' his front paws but this has lessened greatly now. He has not shown any head tilt or eye flickering.

I have seen three different vets all at the same surgery. I shall be asking for a pain killer and anti-inflammatory tomorrow! He was given a pain killer by one vet almost a week ago along with something to stimulate his gut, but aside from medication I am giving him, that is it. I will not be allowing the, to PTS tomorrow and am fighting his corner. I don't have hundreds of pounds I can spend on him with tests and hospital stays, but I will do my absolute best by him.

Shadow is laying down most of the time, however is happy to be outside and almost no loss of balance or laying down out there. But am only leaving him out for small periods of time fully supervised. He also was quite adamant he did not want me to pick him up and bring him in!

I have not syringe fed him at all...had never heard of it until now! I have pellets soaking now ready to feed to him! I will also add oats to the pellets in his cage.

Thank you so much for adding to my knowledge and my resolve!

Michelle x
 
Chellewootty said:
Thank you so much for all your replies...I feel so much more hopeful and armed with things to discuss with the vet. Shadow's symptoms were/are weak hind legs and constantly losing his balance (this has definitely improved some), he has white patches on his eyes, which I now believe may be related to EC but this hasn't been said by vet. He has been 'knuckling' his front paws but this has lessened greatly now. He has not shown any head tilt or eye flickering.

I have seen three different vets all at the same surgery. I shall be asking for a pain killer and anti-inflammatory tomorrow! He was given a pain killer by one vet almost a week ago along with something to stimulate his gut, but aside from medication I am giving him, that is it. I will not be allowing the, to PTS tomorrow and am fighting his corner. I don't have hundreds of pounds I can spend on him with tests and hospital stays, but I will do my absolute best by him.

Shadow is laying down most of the time, however is happy to be outside and almost no loss of balance or laying down out there. But am only leaving him out for small periods of time fully supervised. He also was quite adamant he did not want me to pick him up and bring him in!

I have not syringe fed him at all...had never heard of it until now! I have pellets soaking now ready to feed to him! I will also add oats to the pellets in his cage.

Thank you so much for adding to my knowledge and my resolve!

Michelle x
Click to expand...

Hi Michelle

So nice to hear back from you, and that you found the posts helpful :D

I found a couple more links that might make interesting reading ...

http://www.rabbit.org/health/tilt.html

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-8/head-tilt.html

The articles are called head tilt but cover a lot more than that :D

You could also ask your vet about an anabolic steroid. This is completely different to a corticosteroid (which should be given with extreme caution). An anabolic steroid helps appetite and build muscle, both of which rabbits lose as they get older anyway, and certainly when they are fighting a debilitating illness. It's not expensive and I've recommended it to several people here who've found it very useful

Continued good luck to you and Shadow :wave:
 
Also, if Shadow is suffering from balance issues then it might be a good idea to keep his feet firmly on the ground because picking him up will more than likely make him feel very disorientated.
I'm so glad to read that you're not willing to give up just yet. Have you been given a 28 day course of Panacur?
Xx
 
I really can't thank you enough for all your help! Yesterday I soaked Shadow's pellets in water and then blitzed them with banana, strawberries, lots of herbs, cucumber and I can't remember what else....I didn't need to syringe feed him....he lapped it up straight off the spoon! After the vets appointment today, I am armed with a painkiller/anti-inflammatory for him, more panacur to take us to 28 days (14 days tomorrow) and we're continuing with antibiotics and eye drops for his eyes. They also gave me to sachets of powdered food supplement, which I made up and added to his mush tonight....which he has eaten tons of! I'm actually worried he's eating too much in one go!!

According the the vets scales he's lost more weight, although only a small amount compared to the huge weight loss he was showing. But I weighed him on my scales two days ago and I weighed him again tonight and he has GAINED 15g! I know it is nothing but it's in the right direction. I feel like I can see my bunny again! He's still very poorly, but I really do feel we have turned a corner (I hope). And I truly believe it is down to the liquid feeds giving him strength.

I took him to work today and he was free to roam in my office...I think he enjoyed the attention and he was very inquisitive in his new surroundings. He didn't once go back in the carrier! And I plied him with as much food as he would eat!

Thank you, thank you....I will let you know how we go, but good signs!

Michelle.
 
Chellewootty said:
I really can't thank you enough for all your help! Yesterday I soaked Shadow's pellets in water and then blitzed them with banana, strawberries, lots of herbs, cucumber and I can't remember what else....I didn't need to syringe feed him....he lapped it up straight off the spoon! After the vets appointment today, I am armed with a painkiller/anti-inflammatory for him, more panacur to take us to 28 days (14 days tomorrow) and we're continuing with antibiotics and eye drops for his eyes. They also gave me to sachets of powdered food supplement, which I made up and added to his mush tonight....which he has eaten tons of! I'm actually worried he's eating too much in one go!!

According the the vets scales he's lost more weight, although only a small amount compared to the huge weight loss he was showing. But I weighed him on my scales two days ago and I weighed him again tonight and he has GAINED 15g! I know it is nothing but it's in the right direction. I feel like I can see my bunny again! He's still very poorly, but I really do feel we have turned a corner (I hope). And I truly believe it is down to the liquid feeds giving him strength.

I took him to work today and he was free to roam in my office...I think he enjoyed the attention and he was very inquisitive in his new surroundings. He didn't once go back in the carrier! And I plied him with as much food as he would eat!

Thank you, thank you....I will let you know how we go, but good signs!

Michelle.
Click to expand...

I am so glad that making his pellets soft got him eating ! I suspected that it would as Inspector Morse, my 'Soul Rabbit' who had chronic Otitis, would always go off harder foods when he had a flare up of ear pain. Chronic ear trouble can also effect the tooth roots as the Rabbit chews differently to try to minimise discomfort. Tooth root problems are also painful. You can see evidence of this from the skull Radiograph



I really hope that Shadow will continue to improve now :)
 
Chellewootty said:
I really can't thank you enough for all your help! Yesterday I soaked Shadow's pellets in water and then blitzed them with banana, strawberries, lots of herbs, cucumber and I can't remember what else....I didn't need to syringe feed him....he lapped it up straight off the spoon! After the vets appointment today, I am armed with a painkiller/anti-inflammatory for him, more panacur to take us to 28 days (14 days tomorrow) and we're continuing with antibiotics and eye drops for his eyes. They also gave me to sachets of powdered food supplement, which I made up and added to his mush tonight....which he has eaten tons of! I'm actually worried he's eating too much in one go!!

According the the vets scales he's lost more weight, although only a small amount compared to the huge weight loss he was showing. But I weighed him on my scales two days ago and I weighed him again tonight and he has GAINED 15g! I know it is nothing but it's in the right direction. I feel like I can see my bunny again! He's still very poorly, but I really do feel we have turned a corner (I hope). And I truly believe it is down to the liquid feeds giving him strength.

I took him to work today and he was free to roam in my office...I think he enjoyed the attention and he was very inquisitive in his new surroundings. He didn't once go back in the carrier! And I plied him with as much food as he would eat!

Thank you, thank you....I will let you know how we go, but good signs!

Michelle.
Click to expand...

Hi Michelle :wave:

I'm glad things are looking up for you and Shadow, and 15g is *not* insignificant! As you say, it's a good step in the right direction :D I have often pureed food for my rabbits, putting things in there that they enjoy eating.

Very good news, well done you and Shadow :love:
 
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