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At vet's with Fiver

MimzMum

Wise Old Thumper
It's his scheduled appointment but after arriving I notice his respiratory rate is through the roof. He's having a laundry list of issues addressed but at the top is his heart of course. Could I ask for vibes that this visit goes well please? I am very worried about my wee lad.

Thank you. xx
 
Thank you eveyrone :)
Well, not as bad as I thought, but a few things I wasn't keen about.

First, his heart. Vet said it sounded very good and he did take a long time listening, it began to worry me when I saw his eyebrows go up at one point, but he didn't seem to think anything untoward was going on. Now I do wish he'd taken a film of his chest, but he didn't think that was necessary. There is a possibility that the wheezing and snoring then is coming from a tooth issue, or some abnormal tissue in the palate area, so if Fiver needs a dental soon we may make an attempt at getting more diagnostics done at that time. For now he wants me to monitor Fiver's respiratory rates while he is at rest and cooled down, instead of when he's all amped up and at the vets.

His hocks are pretty bad. :( But at least they didn't look as dire as they did about a week ago when I gave him a nail trim and they were very inflamed, so the neosporin helped. And even though I'm using as much soft bedding as I can find for him, the vet would like me to utilize polar fleece blankets to help Fiver find more comfy positions. I just have to hope he rests on them and doesn't eat them!
He wants him to move about more...kind of difficult these days, Fiver was very active as a youngster, but is much more sedate now and getting him to bung about without stressing him further is something I haven't mastered yet. He'd also like him to drink more water. He did take an xray of his abdomen to see what has been going on since Fiver's bladder stone surgery. There appears to be mineralization of some sort forming, but it's in an odd area. It's hard to describe without the films themselves, but I didn't think to have him email them to me. :?

The area of concern is actually on the forward part of the bladder, high up towards where you'd guess Fiver's navel to be. Now it could be part of the scar from his surgery calcifying a bit, but it's not anywhere near big or solid enough for the vet to consider it a stone. But he does think it should be re-scanned in about 4 to 6 months. If it does appear to be a stone, it will have to be removed. Personally I don't think Fiver would survive another surgery like that one, so I'm hoping it's just scar tissue. :(

There is no chest congestion. His ears, despite him not being able to clean them properly, are fine. In fact, overall he said Fiver looks to be in very good shape for an 8 year old minirex. :)

To try to encourage him to move about more, and to better control what we believe may be his arthritis advancing, his vet has prescribed gabapentin, 0.1 mls once a day for at least the next 14 days, then if it appears that is not doing the trick we can up the dose. He does not want to see Fiver's metacam increased.

It's been extremely hard to find exercise time for Fiver of late as we are all madly trying to clear out the house for the move. But I'm hoping that if he is feeling better in himself with the new medication, that he will enjoy the play time I can give him a bit more, since he won't be spending most of the time he is supposed to be exercising by just laying about and trying to get his old, tired muscles to cooperate!

I have been told that gabapentin is an anti-seizure medication. Could anyone with experience of this drug tell me how it has helped or affected your bunnies and what side effects I should be looking for? These are a few questions I didn't really get cleared up by my vet and I'd appreciate hearing some personal experiences if anyone has any. :)

Thanks again so much for the vibes! :) They have been a great help. I feel a little better about taking Fiver with us when we move now, as he may be more comfortable for the flight since he has better pain cover on board (provided it works!) :D xxxx
 
Thank you eveyrone :)
Well, not as bad as I thought, but a few things I wasn't keen about.

First, his heart. Vet said it sounded very good and he did take a long time listening, it began to worry me when I saw his eyebrows go up at one point, but he didn't seem to think anything untoward was going on. Now I do wish he'd taken a film of his chest, but he didn't think that was necessary. There is a possibility that the wheezing and snoring then is coming from a tooth issue, or some abnormal tissue in the palate area, so if Fiver needs a dental soon we may make an attempt at getting more diagnostics done at that time. For now he wants me to monitor Fiver's respiratory rates while he is at rest and cooled down, instead of when he's all amped up and at the vets.

His hocks are pretty bad. :( But at least they didn't look as dire as they did about a week ago when I gave him a nail trim and they were very inflamed, so the neosporin helped. And even though I'm using as much soft bedding as I can find for him, the vet would like me to utilize polar fleece blankets to help Fiver find more comfy positions. I just have to hope he rests on them and doesn't eat them!
He wants him to move about more...kind of difficult these days, Fiver was very active as a youngster, but is much more sedate now and getting him to bung about without stressing him further is something I haven't mastered yet. He'd also like him to drink more water. He did take an xray of his abdomen to see what has been going on since Fiver's bladder stone surgery. There appears to be mineralization of some sort forming, but it's in an odd area. It's hard to describe without the films themselves, but I didn't think to have him email them to me. :?

The area of concern is actually on the forward part of the bladder, high up towards where you'd guess Fiver's navel to be. Now it could be part of the scar from his surgery calcifying a bit, but it's not anywhere near big or solid enough for the vet to consider it a stone. But he does think it should be re-scanned in about 4 to 6 months. If it does appear to be a stone, it will have to be removed. Personally I don't think Fiver would survive another surgery like that one, so I'm hoping it's just scar tissue. :(

There is no chest congestion. His ears, despite him not being able to clean them properly, are fine. In fact, overall he said Fiver looks to be in very good shape for an 8 year old minirex. :)

To try to encourage him to move about more, and to better control what we believe may be his arthritis advancing, his vet has prescribed gabapentin, 0.1 mls once a day for at least the next 14 days, then if it appears that is not doing the trick we can up the dose. He does not want to see Fiver's metacam increased.

It's been extremely hard to find exercise time for Fiver of late as we are all madly trying to clear out the house for the move. But I'm hoping that if he is feeling better in himself with the new medication, that he will enjoy the play time I can give him a bit more, since he won't be spending most of the time he is supposed to be exercising by just laying about and trying to get his old, tired muscles to cooperate!

I have been told that gabapentin is an anti-seizure medication. Could anyone with experience of this drug tell me how it has helped or affected your bunnies and what side effects I should be looking for? These are a few questions I didn't really get cleared up by my vet and I'd appreciate hearing some personal experiences if anyone has any. :)

Thanks again so much for the vibes! :) They have been a great help. I feel a little better about taking Fiver with us when we move now, as he may be more comfortable for the flight since he has better pain cover on board (provided it works!) :D xxxx

Well I am glad that things do not appear to be as dire for Fiver as you feared. It sounds as though the Vet spent a fair bit of time examining him.

I have no first hand experience with using Gabapentin in any of my Rabbits, but I know of a few people who have. They mentioned that Gabapentin did cause some sedation and reduction in appetite. Also, a few years ago Marie Kubiak (Exotics Specialist Vet) posted this on a thread about the use of both Gabapentin and Tramadol in Rabbits

I use tramadol quite frequently in rabbits, guinea pigs and chinchillas with pain that is not controlled by non-steroidals like metacam, or where NSAIDs can't be used due to other health issues. It works well to control soft tissue pain, less well for bony pain and rarely causes sedation and I've had no adverse reactions. Doses required for pain relief in bunnies are much higher than in cats and dogs.
Gabapentin I use only for nerve-damage related pain so far less frequently but has seemed to give some relief in a number of these cases.

This refers to the use of Gabapentin in Cats, Dogs and Horse. As usual there is a distinct lack of documented accounts of the therapeutic use of the drug in Rabbits, only in a Research setting

I hope that preparations for the move are going as well as possible. I know that this is an extremely stressful time and I think getting the move out of the way will at least be one less thing to have looming on the horizon

((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))) xx
 
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Thank you Jane. :) I remember Marie Kubiak, does she still practice?
Yes, my vet was commenting on how fortunate he was that he had access to studies on gabapentin in rabbits because they are not widely available. I don't know how he gets his information, but he seems well versed.

I really hope the gabapentin will help Fiver. My vet was going to prescribe it for Jenna too, recently, when we were figuring she was having back pain. I'm a little concerned that it is not good for bone pain, which is what I think Fiver may be having trouble with. If the gabapentin does not work would something like tramadol cover that issue?

My little guy is currently sitting next to me in bun loaf position. I haven't seen him sit like this in awhile, so I hope he's feeling better in himself for his day out. Our road to and from town is peppered with potholes and dips and we had quite the time getting him there and back again without jostling him too much. :shock:

I am not looking forward to the move, but I am at the same time. Does that make sense? It's a hassle going through stuff and trying to let go of most of my belongings, and of course other issues crowd in when my brain is idle...but relocating somewhere that I may be able to have my own life again is a tempting carrot. I just don't want to get anymore stick! :lol:

Thank you so much for responding. ((((Hugs))))) I hope you and yours are doing as well as possible. xxxx
 
Thank you Jane. :) I remember Marie Kubiak, does she still practice?
Yes, my vet was commenting on how fortunate he was that he had access to studies on gabapentin in rabbits because they are not widely available. I don't know how he gets his information, but he seems well versed.

I really hope the gabapentin will help Fiver. My vet was going to prescribe it for Jenna too, recently, when we were figuring she was having back pain. I'm a little concerned that it is not good for bone pain, which is what I think Fiver may be having trouble with. If the gabapentin does not work would something like tramadol cover that issue?

My little guy is currently sitting next to me in bun loaf position. I haven't seen him sit like this in awhile, so I hope he's feeling better in himself for his day out. Our road to and from town is peppered with potholes and dips and we had quite the time getting him there and back again without jostling him too much. :shock:

I am not looking forward to the move, but I am at the same time. Does that make sense? It's a hassle going through stuff and trying to let go of most of my belongings, and of course other issues crowd in when my brain is idle...but relocating somewhere that I may be able to have my own life again is a tempting carrot. I just don't want to get anymore stick! :lol:

Thank you so much for responding. ((((Hugs))))) I hope you and yours are doing as well as possible. xxxx

In my experience Tramadol is very effective for managing bone pain. Most of my previous arthritic Rabbits had Tramadol introduced alongside Metacam at some stage. Some also had Acupuncture, which proved to be very beneficial. It even meant that the analgesic doses could be lowered in some cases.

Yes, Marie is still in Practice and she is highly respected :)

The weather here is awful, 34c yesterday :cry:

Better get on with the cleaning out before it gets even hotter again today !

J x
 
Thank you Jane. :) I remember Marie Kubiak, does she still practice?
Yes, my vet was commenting on how fortunate he was that he had access to studies on gabapentin in rabbits because they are not widely available. I don't know how he gets his information, but he seems well versed.

I really hope the gabapentin will help Fiver. My vet was going to prescribe it for Jenna too, recently, when we were figuring she was having back pain. I'm a little concerned that it is not good for bone pain, which is what I think Fiver may be having trouble with. If the gabapentin does not work would something like tramadol cover that issue?

My little guy is currently sitting next to me in bun loaf position. I haven't seen him sit like this in awhile, so I hope he's feeling better in himself for his day out. Our road to and from town is peppered with potholes and dips and we had quite the time getting him there and back again without jostling him too much. :shock:

I am not looking forward to the move, but I am at the same time. Does that make sense? It's a hassle going through stuff and trying to let go of most of my belongings, and of course other issues crowd in when my brain is idle...but relocating somewhere that I may be able to have my own life again is a tempting carrot. I just don't want to get anymore stick! :lol:

Thank you so much for responding. ((((Hugs))))) I hope you and yours are doing as well as possible. xxxx

I don't wish to give rise to yet more concern, but one of my consultants said exactly this for the use of Gabapentin in humans.

Sending more vibes for Fiver.
 
I don't wish to give rise to yet more concern, but one of my consultants said exactly this for the use of Gabapentin in humans.

Sending more vibes for Fiver.

Yes, I believe it is usually used to manage neuropathic pain. But there can sometimes be some neuropathy involved with chronic arthritis.
 
Oh I'm so sorry Fiver is in such a sorry state. :(

My only experience with gabapentin is in humans (myself!) It definitely makes me drowsier and more forgetful - but I'm not a rabbit.
 
Oh I'm so sorry Fiver is in such a sorry state. :(

My only experience with gabapentin is in humans (myself!) It definitely makes me drowsier and more forgetful - but I'm not a rabbit.

Ah...see this is part of what I don't like. Fiver is lethargic enough, I really don't want to make him more so. :(
Is this drowsiness pronounced? I am currently having difficulty getting him to eat as he used to also and I understand it may affect appetite?

Yes, I believe it is usually used to manage neuropathic pain. But there can sometimes be some neuropathy involved with chronic arthritis.

I think this may have been what Fiver's previous vet was aiming for in Mimzy also. She believed he'd soon reach the ceiling with metacam and wanted him to have other pain relief options. Gabapentin was mentioned, but I think she wanted to try tramadol first. I'd had reservations then because I saw what tramadol did to my dogs digestive systems and did not want that repeated. :(

I wonder why my current vet went straight to the gabapentin then? I'm pretty sure I made it clear that Fiver's issues seem to be with his bones, but maybe my telling him about Fiver not being able to raise his forelegs to wash his ears was the deciding factor. :?
I have yet to see him wash his ears since cutting his nails, btw. :(

There is the chance of him having more films done if he winds up needing a dental...maybe I'll have some taken of his spine and legs after all. My vet didn't seem to think that would help much, but I think we should have more information as to just what's bothering Fiver. :?

I don't wish to give rise to yet more concern, but one of my consultants said exactly this for the use of Gabapentin in humans.

Sending more vibes for Fiver.

Thank you Omi. I appreciate your input also. Hm. Things to think about.
We will probably try the gabapentin anyway, just to rule out effectiveness, but if it's not going to show improvement in him within the 2 week period we are running out of time to have this vet treat him, so I may have him drop him back down and try the tramadol instead.
I was told he'd need to be weaned off it. There is some vague risk of seizure activity when removing a patient from the drug. But the vet did say it was highly unlikely. Since we are not certain if Fiver has had seizures in the past, I don't want to aggravate his neurons any more than I have to.

Argh...why do things have to be so complicated with bunnies! :roll:
 
In my experience Tramadol is very effective for managing bone pain. Most of my previous arthritic Rabbits had Tramadol introduced alongside Metacam at some stage. Some also had Acupuncture, which proved to be very beneficial. It even meant that the analgesic doses could be lowered in some cases.

Yes, Marie is still in Practice and she is highly respected :)

The weather here is awful, 34c yesterday :cry:

Better get on with the cleaning out before it gets even hotter again today !

J x

Oh Jane, forgot to respond to this...I feel for you with the heat. :( This was what we were going through just a scant week ago. I think the jet stream is giving everybody in the northern hemisphere the business! :evil:
Hopefully you'll be seeing a cooling trend before long. We have rain and more rain here currently. Our "autumn" should be starting as we get into August.


Good things to know about tramadol and acupuncture. I did hope that whatever other pain cover Fiver's vet prescribed would mean he could drop down on the metacam (and Mimzy too if he is given other options.)
I wonder if we missed the boat there? :( I may have to ask the vet about tramadol as an alternative, for both bunnies. I'm sure he'd want me to try the gabapentin first, but I'd better know what my options are in switching the two drugs before we get started, and what effects that would have on Fiver.
 
Well, after a few days of cold feet on my part, I gave Fiver his first dose of the gabapentin today. I doubt I'll see an immediate change and I have to note he wasn't keen on something new being put in his mouth :roll: but I just hope it doesn't cause some nasty side effects that the vet didn't anticipate. Especially since Fiver seems to be the only bunny on the planet who acquired partial limb paralysis from baytril. :?

If anything he does seem more sedate. Not really what I want for him, I need him to move about more. :( Last night, as I went to bed rather late, he went into a thumping fit. I couldn't figure out what was setting him off but his display was really bothering Jenna too, she was trying to sleep after a surprise bath (she decided to squat over a group of nasty looking toadstools during her walk and also grabbed some sticky seedpods from the ferns here) and whenever Fiver starts stomping she wants to run away with all due speed. :roll:

After giving the meds some time to kick in, I've allowed him to explore a bit to see what he'll do. He is currently hopping about my bed, doing periscopes here and there and nose bonking me (wow!) and is now eating his towel I've put down so in case he messes we have little to clean up. (He's been a bit incontinent since his bladder surgery, poor chap... don't know if I've mentioned that.)

His eyes look a bit less hooded and they aren't bulging with fear like they were on vet visit day. His breathing was a lot better the other night too and last night he was wheezing/snoring again. I do wonder if it's something environmental? Most of my animals have sniffly beaks in one form or other, probably because we live off a dirt road.

He's definitely indulging his curiosity more today than he has in past days. Good. Maybe this is going to work out!
 
I missed all of this, I hope Fiver continues to feel well on the new injections :thumb: sending lots of vibes to him xx
 
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