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Advice Needed - Two rabbits died in 48 hours

MichelleBee

Alpha Buck
At the start of this week we had three happy, healthy rabbits. On Tuesday evening, two hours after my partner supervised the trio free ranging in the garden, we found Muchu dead in the enclosure. No signs of trauma, no discharge etc. He had been eating, drinking normally and behaving normally 2 hours previously.

Yesterday evening, an hour after my partner supervised the remaining two freeranging, we found Dilys dead in the enclosure. Same as before - no signs of trauma or discharge. She had been eating, drinking and behaving normally an hour before. The vet has checked her body (but not done a Post Mortem) and said he could see nothing obvious.

We now just have Mavis but are very scared that the same thing will happen to her. The vet has checked her over and said that all is fine apart from her guts were a bit slow. He's given her some meds and we're managing that at home. We're very much used to stasis. We've moved her inside and changed the hay. We won't be letting her outside for the time being.

All three were neutered and vaccinated (vaccinations were up to date). Nothing has changed in the garden since we moved in a year ago. We also have a cat, so the rabbits were used to cats, so I don't think it can be that. The enclosure is intact, so nothing looks like it's got in.

The emergency vet is stumped. We have no more ideas.

Our usual vet won't do a Post Mortem. She says it isn't what they do, but somewhere in Liverpool or Leeds will do it, as they're pathologists. However, I thought vets could do a basic PM.

If anyone has any ideas / suggestions etc, please let me know, as we're so scared about Mavis succumbing to the same illness / infection etc.
 
I am so sorry about your loss, that must be truly awful and heart breaking :(

Were they related? If so it could be a genetic disorder?
 
No sorry forgot to mention that! The remaining girl, Mavis and Dilys were sisters, but Muchu wasn't related at all.

It's a mystery :-(
 
At the start of this week we had three happy, healthy rabbits. On Tuesday evening, two hours after my partner supervised the trio free ranging in the garden, we found Muchu dead in the enclosure. No signs of trauma, no discharge etc. He had been eating, drinking normally and behaving normally 2 hours previously.

Yesterday evening, an hour after my partner supervised the remaining two freeranging, we found Dilys dead in the enclosure. Same as before - no signs of trauma or discharge. She had been eating, drinking and behaving normally an hour before. The vet has checked her body (but not done a Post Mortem) and said he could see nothing obvious.

We now just have Mavis but are very scared that the same thing will happen to her. The vet has checked her over and said that all is fine apart from her guts were a bit slow. He's given her some meds and we're managing that at home. We're very much used to stasis. We've moved her inside and changed the hay. We won't be letting her outside for the time being.

All three were neutered and vaccinated (vaccinations were up to date). Nothing has changed in the garden since we moved in a year ago. We also have a cat, so the rabbits were used to cats, so I don't think it can be that. The enclosure is intact, so nothing looks like it's got in.

The emergency vet is stumped. We have no more ideas.

Our usual vet won't do a Post Mortem. She says it isn't what they do, but somewhere in Liverpool or Leeds will do it, as they're pathologists. However, I thought vets could do a basic PM.

If anyone has any ideas / suggestions etc, please let me know, as we're so scared about Mavis succumbing to the same illness / infection etc.

How awful, I am so very sorry :cry:

Without a PM it is impossible to say what happened, but ingestion of a toxin is a possibility. Or, god forbid, the 'new' strain of VHD- VHD2/RHD2. The combination vaccine currently used does not offer any protection against VHD2 and there is still a problem obtaining a vaccine from Germany that does.

A Vet can do a basic PM, but if blood/tissue sample are to be looked at in detail then a Specialist Veterinary Path Lab Services would be required. A basic PM may show changes in the internal organs consistent with certain disease processes. But absolute confirmation would require more detailed examination.

In your situation I would have definitely wanted a Vet to do a basic PM and I honestly cant understand why the Vet involved has said it's 'not what they do'.

I can imagine how utterly devastated you must feel :cry:
 
Oh no I'm so sorry for your loss :(

I too was wondering if there was anything in the garden that they could both have eaten?

xxx
 
I'm so sorry to hear of your losses, it must be a massive shock to lose two seemingly healthy bunnies. RIP Muchu & Dilys

As to the cause of your little ones death, I don't know if RHVD2 could have been the culprit. From what I understand this virus can take rabbits without warning & it is impossible to identify without post mortem (& even then it is tricky). It is only a guess at best though. Please bear in mind that by no means all rabbits in contact with RHVD2 will succumb to it. I hope Mavis will be ok.
 
At the start of this week we had three happy, healthy rabbits. On Tuesday evening, two hours after my partner supervised the trio free ranging in the garden, we found Muchu dead in the enclosure. No signs of trauma, no discharge etc. He had been eating, drinking normally and behaving normally 2 hours previously.

Yesterday evening, an hour after my partner supervised the remaining two freeranging, we found Dilys dead in the enclosure. Same as before - no signs of trauma or discharge. She had been eating, drinking and behaving normally an hour before. The vet has checked her body (but not done a Post Mortem) and said he could see nothing obvious.

We now just have Mavis but are very scared that the same thing will happen to her. The vet has checked her over and said that all is fine apart from her guts were a bit slow. He's given her some meds and we're managing that at home. We're very much used to stasis. We've moved her inside and changed the hay. We won't be letting her outside for the time being.

All three were neutered and vaccinated (vaccinations were up to date). Nothing has changed in the garden since we moved in a year ago. We also have a cat, so the rabbits were used to cats, so I don't think it can be that. The enclosure is intact, so nothing looks like it's got in.

The emergency vet is stumped. We have no more ideas.

Our usual vet won't do a Post Mortem. She says it isn't what they do, but somewhere in Liverpool or Leeds will do it, as they're pathologists. However, I thought vets could do a basic PM.

If anyone has any ideas / suggestions etc, please let me know, as we're so scared about Mavis succumbing to the same illness / infection etc.


Gracious that's awful for you all, I'm so very sorry :(

Without a PM it's impossible to know what's happened. As far as ingesting toxins from poisonous plants etc, I wouldn't think it likely, as you've presumably had them out in the enclosure many times previously? Also, eminent rabbit vets allow their rabbits to graze and there is little evidence of them poisoning themselves - just to put your mind at rest on that front.

It seems like you've done everything you could do, and aside from a PM it's so heartbreaking not to know what happened to them.

I'm so sorry xx
 
How awful, I am so very sorry :cry:

Without a PM it is impossible to say what happened, but ingestion of a toxin is a possibility. Or, god forbid, the 'new' strain of VHD- VHD2/RHD2. The combination vaccine currently used does not offer any protection against VHD2 and there is still a problem obtaining a vaccine from Germany that does.

A Vet can do a basic PM, but if blood/tissue sample are to be looked at in detail then a Specialist Veterinary Path Lab Services would be required. A basic PM may show changes in the internal organs consistent with certain disease processes. But absolute confirmation would require more detailed examination.

In your situation I would have definitely wanted a Vet to do a basic PM and I honestly cant understand why the Vet involved has said it's 'not what they do'.

I can imagine how utterly devastated you must feel :cry:

Thanks Jane. I've tried phoning another vet to see if they will do a basic PM. I'm just waiting for them to get back to me. Our usual vet said that it would probably be inconclusive, so there would be no point. However, we would still like to try - even if it's just for peace of mind that it wasn't anything we did or didn't do.

The emergency vet didn't even know about the new strain of VHD, so he couldn't answer my questions. He did say that he didn't think it could be a toxin, as unless it was very toxic, it wouldn't have affected them both so quickly. However, I am concerned that it happened after they'd both just been running around and were seemingly normal.
 
Thanks Jane. I've tried phoning another vet to see if they will do a basic PM. I'm just waiting for them to get back to me. Our usual vet said that it would probably be inconclusive, so there would be no point. However, we would still like to try - even if it's just for peace of mind that it wasn't anything we did or didn't do.

The emergency vet didn't even know about the new strain of VHD, so he couldn't answer my questions. He did say that he didn't think it could be a toxin, as unless it was very toxic, it wouldn't have affected them both so quickly. However, I am concerned that it happened after they'd both just been running around and were seemingly normal.

Is where they were running around accessible to passers by ?

I know that 'Santa' on here had a Rabbit who ingested a toxic plant (Foxglove) and although he did not die he developed a serious cardiac arrhythmia which could have proved fatal. So whilst it is a rare occurrence, ingestion of a toxin is certainly not impossible.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?427812-Cardiac-arrhythmia/page2
 
Thanks Jane. I've tried phoning another vet to see if they will do a basic PM. I'm just waiting for them to get back to me. Our usual vet said that it would probably be inconclusive, so there would be no point. However, we would still like to try - even if it's just for peace of mind that it wasn't anything we did or didn't do.

The emergency vet didn't even know about the new strain of VHD, so he couldn't answer my questions. He did say that he didn't think it could be a toxin, as unless it was very toxic, it wouldn't have affected them both so quickly. However, I am concerned that it happened after they'd both just been running around and were seemingly normal.

Indeed, what usually happens is the rabbit will suffer a kidney failure - over perhaps a period of days (1 - 2 days). This has been our experience.

This article by the country's leading rabbit specialist looks at why poisonous plants are not a major concern for rabbits:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...rabbits/plant-toxicity-the-problem-with-lists

I am so sorry - it's very mysterious.
 
Is where they were running around accessible to passers by ?

I know that 'Santa' on here had a Rabbit who ingested a toxic plant (Foxglove) and although he did not die he developed a serious cardiac arrhythmia which could have proved fatal. So whilst it is a rare occurrence, ingestion of a toxin is certainly not impossible.
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?427812-Cardiac-arrhythmia/page2

Our garden is enclosed and the gate is locked. We have neighbours on all three sides, so passers by couldn't get in. I've looked for potential toxic plants but there is nothing. Just the usual shrubs we've had for the last year. Unless I'm missing something toxic...
 
Indeed, what usually happens is the rabbit will suffer a kidney failure - over perhaps a period of days (1 - 2 days). This has been our experience.

This article by the country's leading rabbit specialist looks at why poisonous plants are not a major concern for rabbits:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...rabbits/plant-toxicity-the-problem-with-lists

I am so sorry - it's very mysterious.
Thanks for your help. I've just spoken to another vet at another practise who is also stumped. It's weird and heartbreaking.
 
Have you recently used any new chemicals, slug pellets or paints in your garden?

I'm sure some other's will remember a few years back something similar happening with poor RubyTed. It turned out that she eventually found a half open decaying box of either slug pellets or rat poison (I can't remember which) behind a shed at the back of her garden, which had been left by a previous occupier.

I'm so very sorry for your loss, you must be devastated :cry:
 
Sorry to hear about this. Roughly where are you in S.Yorks, We're in Doncaster? It looks like too much to be a coincidence, although it is possible I suppose. I would have a good look around in case someone has thrown something into the garden (small pellets etc.). This new strain of VHD sounds very worrying. Over the last couple of years we seam to have fewer wild rabbits around here, I've noticed the grazing pressure on the surrounding wild land is reduced as well. I wonder if it's around in this area. Is it spread by mosquitoes?
 
I just wanted to say I am so sorry for your loss and really hope you can get a post Mortem done to get answers. How terribly sad xx.
 
at this time of year the main toxins out in the garden are shoots of lily of the valley (you may not even notice it as its not in flower ) and young leaves of digitalis - as well of course as bluebells and grape hyacinth.

I would check for these. The first two are deadly and quick acting the hyacinthoides I think take longer to work as toxins..
 
I'm sorry.

I remember an RUer years ago, I think, having a buns die suddenly then finding there was poison around, left by a previous tenant. Might that be a possibility?
 
at this time of year the main toxins out in the garden are shoots of lily of the valley (you may not even notice it as its not in flower ) and young leaves of digitalis - as well of course as bluebells and grape hyacinth.

I would check for these. The first two are deadly and quick acting the hyacinthoides I think take longer to work as toxins..

I hoped for your expertise on this Twigs but I didn't like to hassle you with a PM to flag this thread up

MichelleBee, I do hope that you may find some clue as to 'why'. I can imagine how dreadful the whole experience must have been for you :cry:
 
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