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Whistly rabbit

H

heleni

Warren Scout
One of my rabbits is rather whistly, and also sneezy - will do a serious of three or four sneezes a few times a day. He's had it a couple of times in the past - the first time (a year or so ago) it was in his chest and it cleared up in a few days with Baytril, the second time the Baytril didn't immediately help but it cleared up a few days afterwards. This time he got it at the start of October, we went to the vet who thought it was his throat or nose and tried Metacam first for its anti-inflamatory benefits (no real change) then 10 days of Baytil which also didn't help. But it wasn't getting worse or giving him any bother as in all other ways he's his normal healthy happy hungry self, so I've just kept an eye but otherwise left it.

He's always been a vocal rabbit, particularly when excited, but more of a grunter than a whistler. He's not grunted for ages, the whistling has taken over when he is excited. It sounds like it is in his nose, not his throat or chest. But I've noticed now that when he is eating he is having to lift his head up high, as if he's struggling to breathe through his nose. A few days of Metacam seems to help a bit but not fully. His nose and eyes are clear and not runny. My other rabbit seems to be fine so I don't think it's contagious (though she does whistle occasionally but I think she does it to copy his signs of excitement - she never grunted until we got him, but has copied that too).

We're off to the vet again tomorrow evening, but does anyone have any thoughts of what it might be or what I can ask the vet? I did wonder if he might be allergic to something, but what can be done for an allergic rabbit?!
 
heleni said:
One of my rabbits is rather whistly, and also sneezy - will do a serious of three or four sneezes a few times a day. He's had it a couple of times in the past - the first time (a year or so ago) it was in his chest and it cleared up in a few days with Baytril, the second time the Baytril didn't immediately help but it cleared up a few days afterwards. This time he got it at the start of October, we went to the vet who thought it was his throat or nose and tried Metacam first for its anti-inflamatory benefits (no real change) then 10 days of Baytil which also didn't help. But it wasn't getting worse or giving him any bother as in all other ways he's his normal healthy happy hungry self, so I've just kept an eye but otherwise left it.

He's always been a vocal rabbit, particularly when excited, but more of a grunter than a whistler. He's not grunted for ages, the whistling has taken over when he is excited. It sounds like it is in his nose, not his throat or chest. But I've noticed now that when he is eating he is having to lift his head up high, as if he's struggling to breathe through his nose. A few days of Metacam seems to help a bit but not fully. His nose and eyes are clear and not runny. My other rabbit seems to be fine so I don't think it's contagious (though she does whistle occasionally but I think she does it to copy his signs of excitement - she never grunted until we got him, but has copied that too).

We're off to the vet again tomorrow evening, but does anyone have any thoughts of what it might be or what I can ask the vet? I did wonder if he might be allergic to something, but what can be done for an allergic rabbit?!
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It could be infection/inflammation in the nasal passages. You may need a change of antibiotic, and possibly given over a longer period of time than before.

One thing to consider is teeth issues. A vet (unless they have the confidence to do this consciously) will not be able to see to the back of the mouth 100%. They reckon they only get about 60% view of the back teeth. I would want teeth eliminated from my line of enquiry if this was my rabbit...

As for allergies - there's a limited amount a vet can do conventionally for a rabbit that has allergies, but there's masses of 'alternative' treatments out there that work wonderfully well. You may be one of those people who feels alternative medicine is a waste of time and money, or worse, could possibly be harmful! In that case, apologies for suggesting it :D

BTW, when you say he lifts his head up to breathe - please make sure you alert your vet to this tomorrow evening. Rabbits breathe through their noses so if he's struggling to breathe when he eats, this is very important to note:

Rabbits are obligate nasal breathers, meaning that they cannot breathe effectively through the mouth. If the nasal passages become blocked with mucus and pus, or severely swollen, they cannot breathe. This can become life threatening. Keep nostrils clear of discharge. .... http://www.sawneeanimalclinic.com/downloads/rhinitis_and_sinusitis_in_rabbits.pdf

Good luck at the vet's tomorrow :thumb:
 
Thanks MightyMax, that's really helpful. he's not showing any of the other signs I'd expect with teeth problems like dribbling or trouble eating, but will get the vet to check that anyway.

I'm not against traditional remedies (often use blackberry leaves if the rabbits have an upset stomach) but not in favour of homeopathy. So willing to give traditional medicine a go, if you've got any suggestions.
 
Rabbit went to the vet this evening. She listened to his lungs and reckons the problem is in his lung rather than his nose, as she could hear difficulties on both the in and out breaths. Possibly a mild case of pasturella low down in the lungs, though it's not yet causing any discharge. She has given me some Sulfatrim antibiotics to give him for two weeks, plus some more Metacam. She said hopefully it should get better in the first three or four days. Fingers crossed!
 
heleni said:
Rabbit went to the vet this evening. She listened to his lungs and reckons the problem is in his lung rather than his nose, as she could hear difficulties on both the in and out breaths. Possibly a mild case of pasturella low down in the lungs, though it's not yet causing any discharge. She has given me some Sulfatrim antibiotics to give him for two weeks, plus some more Metacam. She said hopefully it should get better in the first three or four days. Fingers crossed!
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I'm glad you consulted your vet!

I hope the antibiotics help him and clear up the infection.

Good luck xx
 
Restarting an old thread of mine rather than starting a new one. My rabbit is still suffering respiratory problems. Following my previous messages, I kept him on the medicine (not much fun as it was very bitter) and he seemed to get a bit better. But over Christmas he went into boarding and I'm not sure that they gave him the medicine, so he came out much worse with major mouth breathing. We've been to the vets a few times since and apparently he has pneumonia - though I think this is a bit of a catch all term- and since new year he has been on baytril, septrin and recently metacam again. He goes up and down but is still not right, often doing mouth breathing particularly after eating. He is still eating but not so enthusiatically, though he wolfs down the medicine (which is served on bread with honey!) and also raisins if offered. He also seems to choose hay over many other more exciting foods, and he is feeling skinnier though his coat still looks healthy etc (other rabbit is getting fatter as she is also eating his share!!).

Although they live in the shed, so have shelter from the wind, we've decided to bring them both inside for the rest of the winter/early spring in the hope that the warmth might help, and then put them out when the weather is milder. House will be covered in black fur as they are both moulting, so not ideal but needs must. However, is there anything else I can do for him? Human tips suggest holding your head over a bowl of steaming water, but I don't think that would be very practical. I will take him back to the vet again, but am nervous about being charged a lot only to be told he is not better yet (which I know) and to keep going with the antibiotics.
 
heleni said:
Restarting an old thread of mine rather than starting a new one. My rabbit is still suffering respiratory problems. Following my previous messages, I kept him on the medicine (not much fun as it was very bitter) and he seemed to get a bit better. But over Christmas he went into boarding and I'm not sure that they gave him the medicine, so he came out much worse with major mouth breathing. We've been to the vets a few times since and apparently he has pneumonia - though I think this is a bit of a catch all term- and since new year he has been on baytril, septrin and recently metacam again. He goes up and down but is still not right, often doing mouth breathing particularly after eating. He is still eating but not so enthusiatically, though he wolfs down the medicine (which is served on bread with honey!) and also raisins if offered. He also seems to choose hay over many other more exciting foods, and he is feeling skinnier though his coat still looks healthy etc (other rabbit is getting fatter as she is also eating his share!!).

Although they live in the shed, so have shelter from the wind, we've decided to bring them both inside for the rest of the winter/early spring in the hope that the warmth might help, and then put them out when the weather is milder. House will be covered in black fur as they are both moulting, so not ideal but needs must. However, is there anything else I can do for him? Human tips suggest holding your head over a bowl of steaming water, but I don't think that would be very practical. I will take him back to the vet again, but am nervous about being charged a lot only to be told he is not better yet (which I know) and to keep going with the antibiotics.
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If it truly is pneumonia, then it's a very serious condition, as it is in humans also. I'm so sorry he's not getting better :(

Mouth breathing can also be a sign of heart issues. From what you say, I would consult another vet/specialist. It may mean X-rays need to be taken to asses the situation, so you do need to keep his weight up. Can you syringe feed him now he's indoors? Sometimes a little 2/3 times a day - pellets and baby food mashed together, or critical care if you have it?

He won't fight infection if his weight is going down. Eating hay is brilliant for boosting his fibre intake, that's good he's still keen on it.

Wishing you loads of luck xx
 
Heleni am I correct in thinking you live in Nailsea? Sorry if I am mistaking you for someone else. If by chance I do have the right person I can highly recommend Golden Valley especially a vet called Liam. I have been using them for years and in particular they have recently supported me through a very difficult period with my rabbits.

Reference your current issues if he is strong enough to go without antibiotics for a week you could get a culture and sensitivity test to find out exactly what bacteria you are dealing with and exactly which antibiotic is needed. You have other options such as Zithromax or alamycin or if really needed injectable penicillin.

Also agree that an xray of tooth roots would be beneficial to rule this out and that heart issues could be a cause.

If its definitely respitory issues you could try a nebulizer either with meds or just saline. If there is discharge and mucus build up you could try an antimucoltic such as bisolven.

If he has had repeated issues there is likely to be some degree of scar tissue on his lungs.
 
Amy104 said:
Heleni am I correct in thinking you live in Nailsea? Sorry if I am mistaking you for someone else. If by chance I do have the right person I can highly recommend Golden Valley especially a vet called Liam. I have been using them for years and in particular they have recently supported me through a very difficult period with my rabbits.

Reference your current issues if he is strong enough to go without antibiotics for a week you could get a culture and sensitivity test to find out exactly what bacteria you are dealing with and exactly which antibiotic is needed. You have other options such as Zithromax or alamycin or if really needed injectable penicillin.

Also agree that an xray of tooth roots would be beneficial to rule this out and that heart issues could be a cause.

If its definitely respitory issues you could try a nebulizer either with meds or just saline. If there is discharge and mucus build up you could try an antimucoltic such as bisolven.

If he has had repeated issues there is likely to be some degree of scar tissue on his lungs.
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Your rabbit does *not* need to come off antibiotics. I really wouldn't advise this. The lab can be told what antibiotics he's taking and the test is still perfectly valid. (sorry Amy x)

Agree with nebulising and Bisolvon x
 
Your rabbit does *not* need to come off antibiotics. I really wouldn't advise this. The lab can be told what antibiotics he's taking and the test is still perfectly valid. (sorry Amy x)
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Don't be sorry - it was almost 10 years ago I had a culture done for respitory issues so I expect things may have advanced. That's really useful to know for future thank you. :D
 
Thanks both of you. Yes, that's me in Nailsea. I go to Watkins & Tasker and see Mario who has always been very good with my multiple rabbit issues in the past.

He is a bit sneezy as well (though no obvious snot) which is why I think it is probably respiratory, plus he has had respiratory problems a number of times in the past so probably does have scarring. Last time the vet listened apparently his lungs sounds like a plastic bag being crinkled. I think we will need to ask them to look into it further though, since there has not been any improvement in nearly two months and I know chest/lung infections can take a while to clear, but that is quite a while. I hope it's not his heart, and fingers crossed with his good hay habits it's not his teeth.

Have googled images of rabbits with nebulizers so I can prepare for what might be needed if that is an option. Amused by the pictures of rabbits in plastic boxes for this, though doubt they were.

Booked him another appointment tomorrow evening so we will see what else can be done and will ask about heart and teeth.

Edited to add: I'd prefer to avoid syringe feeding him if possible as he is a wriggler and the stress of being picked up will probably make him worse. However, I will go for the hand feeding little and often option whenever possible, as he will have a short burst of eating that way. He had a bit of warm porridge last night which he quite enjoyed and I think is quite high calorie (for a rabbit), though he wasn't impressed by my choice of a ramekin to serve it in.
 
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Check the inside of his front legs - that's where you most commonly see the discharge as they often wipe it away.

I don't know how good Watkins and Tasker are these days, I left them years ago after a vet dropped one of my rabbits, made another one scream and almost injected me instead of the rabbit. They also refused to spay female rabbits and when I explained the reasons it was beneficial and that this was information given by the RWAF they phoned the RWAF to check I was a real member and telling the truth!

You use the plastic box as a chamber - its less stressful for most bunnies. I'll try and find my pics.
 
If you want to help his weight I recommend Pro Fibre Pellets - they seem to help the bunnies absorb the nutrients from their other food much better. Also junior pellets are great for bunnies who need extra help.
 
Good point about the pellets. They get a mix of Science Selective and Burgess Fat Rabbit pellets, as Miss Fatty (not her real name) tends to the tubb. They both prefer the SS and so if he is not eating so quickly, that means he is getting left with the diet pellets. that's not going to do him much good at the moment. Do they sell the Pro Fibre in either of the pet shops in Nailsea?

I've only had good things with W&T, I usually see Mario or sometimes Amy who is also very good with rabbits. They spayed one of my late rabbits for me, when she was around 5 or so, and had no problems with it.
 
I took the rabbit back to the vet.on Friday. Saw a different one as Mario was ill, but I mentioned heart and teeth. Luckily Bramble had only lost around 0.05kg so I'm relieved by that, and his teeth are fine. The vet listened again and thought it was most likely the lungs still, but we are trying some frusemide in case there is liquid around the heart which can cause problems. he had an injection of it and the vet said we would see an improvement pretty much overnight if it was that, and we've got tablets, but it doesn't seem to have helped. So he is going in for x-rays at the end of the week. It may be a chronic infection that is not responding to the anti-biotics, scarring on the lungs or even lung tumours, in which case we might need to consider pts at some point if his quality of life declines. I hope it doesn't come to that though.

Both rabbits are currently inside, we've moved their outside run into the kitchen and Bramble seems more comfortable, but I am most disappointed in them - I was hoping for all sorts of entertainment but instead they both sit in litter trays, often inside their box/night compartment, and just sit there looking grouchy. It may be that's what they usually do when I'm not around but it's not so exciting as I was hoping!! I don't think they would make the best house rabbits!!
 
A final update on Bramble. He slowly got worse, despite being in the house, struggling to breathe even when he'd not been doing anything. As a result, we decided the best thing for him would to have him put to sleep. So my husband took him to the vet this afternoon, had a final discussion about whether anything else could be done (yes, but they would only have short term effects and then we'd be back to current state) so the vet put him to sleep there and then. So although we're both terribly sad we know it was the best thing for him. Happily the vet agreed that he hadn't been in any pain, only difficulty with the breathing, so that is a relief.

However, poor old Oreo has now been widowed for a third time. We've left his body in the inside run with her, though I'll move it shortly, and she seems a bit glum. The only good thing coming out of this is that we'll be able to give a good home to another rescued boy rabbit, and that is something for us to look forward to! We'll have to wait a bit though as Windwhistle (if they'll let us have one of theirs!) do their bonding in sheltered outside runs, and we'll need to wait for the weather to warm up a bit before we let Oreo out as she is getting used to 19 or 20 degrees.
 
heleni said:
A final update on Bramble. He slowly got worse, despite being in the house, struggling to breathe even when he'd not been doing anything. As a result, we decided the best thing for him would to have him put to sleep. So my husband took him to the vet this afternoon, had a final discussion about whether anything else could be done (yes, but they would only have short term effects and then we'd be back to current state) so the vet put him to sleep there and then. So although we're both terribly sad we know it was the best thing for him. Happily the vet agreed that he hadn't been in any pain, only difficulty with the breathing, so that is a relief.

However, poor old Oreo has now been widowed for a third time. We've left his body in the inside run with her, though I'll move it shortly, and she seems a bit glum. The only good thing coming out of this is that we'll be able to give a good home to another rescued boy rabbit, and that is something for us to look forward to! We'll have to wait a bit though as Windwhistle (if they'll let us have one of theirs!) do their bonding in sheltered outside runs, and we'll need to wait for the weather to warm up a bit before we let Oreo out as she is getting used to 19 or 20 degrees.
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I am so very sorry to hear about Bramble. You did the very best thing, with your vet's advice.

Vibes for you and Oreo xxx
 
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