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bonding has begun - took a step backwards today - what to do now??

booboobunny

Warren Scout
began bonding around 1pm - they are in a large dog crate, empty except for hay.
for the first hour they had fights, so i stayed very close, half in the crate so i could easily separate if needed. since then they've calmed a lot.
now i'm sat a little further away, water spray bottle in hand!
we seem to have come to a stale mate though. for a while florence would go over to albie and nip his back and pull out fur. now whenever flo goes anywhere near albie he just runs away or jumps over her.
they are very calm at the moment, just foraging around in the hay, so we've made some progress at least. they are basically ignoring each other and just keep eating hay - i've never seen either of them eat so much of it, so at least their digestive systems will benefit! :thumb:

not sure where to go from here though - they'e not really interacting as flo can't get close enough to albie before he runs off.
they have both just been washing themselves at opposite sides of the cage and eating etc which i think are good signs. neither has slept yet or sat still for too long.

just as i've been writing this albie let flo come near him and she sniffed him and it was fine. he put his head down flat but she didn't groom him. i have tried putting a little bit of apple juice of both their heads but they didn't groom. flo is currently grooming herself whilst albie is sat just inches in front of her.

should i just keep putting piles of hay in as they eat together nicely and it gives them something to do? i also wondered if i should put a cardboard toilet roll thing in there as some kind of entertainment?

any advice or opinions on how this is going would be greatly appreciated!

sorry if this is written badly - it's difficult to type with one hand whilst watching the buns! ;)
 
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Sorry, that was a terrible introduction to this thread wasn't it! It was much harder trying to type whilst not looking at the screen and using one hand than I thought it would be! They're much calmer now so I've been able to take the thick gloves off and put the water bottle down, hallelujah!
I had Albie first, got him neutered, then got Florence, she was spayed just over 5 weeks ago. Albie is nearly 9 months old and Flo is nearly 7 months old. They've spent nearly everyday in adjoined runs and I've seen her lick his head through the bars once before she was spayed. Albie is very sociable, he loves attention and he has a stuffed rabbit toy which he likes to groom so I think he's pretty keen for a friend.
They are in a dog crate that neither had used before, the floor is plastic so slightly slippery which I think has helped to separate them when they were fighting. Each time they had a fight I put them next to each other and kept stroking them for a few minutes.
Right now Florence is curled up looking very relaxed whilst Albie is laying in front of her - their faces are almost touching. No grooming yet though.
Flo has just put her head under his now but again no grooming - just sitting very still very close!

Obviously we have made progress since we started 4 hours ago - I'm just not sure if I should be doing anything to encourage them to groom/ if there is anything you can do. How much should I interfere etc? And should I just keep adding hay instead of pellets? I did add pellets about an hour ago but I they had a small scuffle so I think maybe it's too soon?
 
Yes she was, we went to the vet (a different one), her nose isn't wet, her chest sounds normal etc thank goodness
 
They do like to eat lots of hay during bonding - I don't feel there is any needs to give them pellets if it causes friction. I think its going well by the sounds of it. I'd interfere when you feel you need to (nipping / circling) I don't think its possible to rush grooming (apart from the sticky something or other on their heads) - all in good time :)
 
It all sounds very good but don't try to rush things and try not to change their environment for a couple of days. You can give them some food if you wish, they will get excited as they always do but that's normal.
 
Thanks, I'm going to stick with the hay as they are demolishing it!
The fighting seems to be out of their systems for now. I'm not going to work until Wednesday so we've got a good few days to see how it goes.
Fingers crossed they soon fall in love :D
 
We've had no fighting at all since yesterday afternoon. They spent all night cuddled together and have spent most of the day eating hay with their bodies touching so pretty sure they like each other! Only problem is there hasn't been any grooming. Albie keeps putting his head under Florence but she doesn't respond. Yesterday evening I put a tiny drop of apple juice on each of their heads but for some reason that caused Flo to get a bit feisty and nip Albie a bit.
Desperate for them to groom but they seem to be a bit stuck in this peaceful stage!
 
No don't worry about the grooming, it's a private thing anyway so probably do it when no-one's around. Sounds really good :thumb:
 
Hi booboobunny .. Your experience so similar to mine with the chasing and running but your bunnies got through that stage to peaceful coexistence much faster than mine. Mine endured three days of her chasing and fur pulling and him thumping and running until he was cornered and she initiated long grooming session at which point it all changed for the better. One day on she is grooming him frequently and he is enjoying rather than tolerating. He has reciprocated a couple of times but is not so good at doing so when she asks but so far she has accepted that. Am sure yours have their own timeline to follow but from my very limited ( n=1 pair !) experience it's looking good for your bunnies :)
 
haha tonibun, you are right about the grooming in private - I've spent so much time observing them waiting to see if any grooming would happen but they wouldn't do it. The crate is behind the sofa, so I sat on it this morning and held my camera over the back so I could see them without them seeing me and not long later Flo groomed Albie! Who knows how long they've been secretly grooming each other. So sneaky!
So is now a good time to add a litter tray or give them a little more space? I've got a small animal pen which I can attach to the crate and gradually make it bigger when I know they are still getting on. Is it too soon or should I just give it a go?
Griffski - I hope your bonding is going well!
 
It sounds very positive so I would give it a go. Don't make too much fuss about it just quietly do it. Fingers crossed xx
 
Annoyingly they just had a fight, and alot of Florence's fur was on the carpet. I think maybe I have been too optimistic - I have let them have half of the room to hop around in in the evenings when supervised, and because everything was going so well I gave them a gnawing toy yesterday evening. Tonight however Albie had a piece in his mouth and Flo snatched it from him, so he then started a fight with her. I've shut them back in the crate for now and they are OK, although not spending as much time as near each other. I've also not really seen any grooming without the use of food on the head, and even then it's only a little. I haven't seen either of them lay stretched out either, although I'm not surprised Flo hasn't as she doesn't like people being around anyway. They do spend time cuddled up together though.
Do you think I should leave them in the reduced space for longer and not add any extra toys etc? Do you think I should see more grooming before moving them into their permanent home?
 
This evening they've spent almost no time near each other and had a little chase around the crate. Feel like we're back at the beginning again! Don't really know what to do
 
I really can't offer to much in the way of bonding advice as we've been bonding our two females for three months now. Various techniques and so far have found the way you're using most effective (they've spend a night and day together in the create with only the odd tiff - no fur pulling).

I'm personally say to keep at it and take them back to a point when it worked. So if you recently increased the space take it right back down for a couple days - maybe even just the create for a day? We do this with the girls after a fight and within a day they're back to cuddling.
 
It could be because there was extra unfamiliar territory they had to reestablish the hierarchy. I had 2 sisters who would always have a little scrap each time you moved them to a new area etc. So it could have been this. Yhey have "strange" ways. :D
 
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