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Bonding two males

Hi there,

Two days ago we picked up a new addition, a 3 month old mini lop x. Our current rabbit a 1-2 year old Old English x was neutured 2 and a half weeks ago. The new rabbit is a male, as when viewing ones for adoption we were told as ours is neutered and as the new one hasn't matured they will be fine, so long as he get the new rabbit neutered immediately.
The initial meeting was great, no aggression from either, Paul (new rabbit) ignored Harvey while Harvey sniffed around the cage and then proceeded to flop down next to it. Great! We waited 24 hours before first introducing him and it didn't go quite as amazingly as planed. Paul ignored Harvey but then Harvey mounted him, Paul allowed him to so again we thought great, Paul is submissive Harvey's dominant. But then when we pushed Harvey off, when he tried it a second time straight away Paul had clearly had enough and they started circling, Paul pulling hair out of Harveys side and Harvey desperately trying to mount him again. Harvey kept making a very quiet honking noise but while circling neither made any noise and haven't since. We haven't let them mix again, and we've gone back to square one, exchanging spaces, cages right next to each other, putting their food bowls so they're facing one another etc. They aren't bothered by each other at all, both eating and drinking, flopping down either side of the cage so they're close to each other. In general both very relaxed.
Then Harvey did a bit of a worrying thing this morning, there is a very small section where they can both fit their noises through that we had tried to blck off but they both got through. Paul put his head as far down as he could and at first it was like Harvey was grooming him, then all of a sudden he started scratching at the cage (what we now think was his attempt to try and get to Paul through the cage) and in retalisation Paul scartched back. Since then every time paul has gone up to anywhere near where they can see each other and put his head down Harvey's tail as stuck up and he has attempted to bite Paul through the bars. But then currently they have just flopped down as close as they can to each other next to the bars!

It's all very confusing, and we feel personality wise Paul is great, he is so laid back and submissive to Harvey bar that one time spinning but to be fair at that time we read that you can allow it (mounting) for up to 20 seconds it probably wasn't fair on him. Looking at other sources it says only 5-10!

Any help would be greatly appreciated, is it best to keep going but just give more time for the hormones in Harvey's system to flow out and for Paul to be neutured when he matures?

Thankyou very much

:D
 
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Neutering doesn't stop males from fighting, oh if it did! Could you perhaps get a female rabbit to go with your male as it would be so much easier. You would then have a happy couple instead of a dodgy relationship which could break down at any time, even when they are both neutered and assuming you will get them together in the first place. As there has already been aggressive signs I would be very surprised if they eventually settled down together. Sorry to sound negative, if you feel you have a chance with them then go ahead
 
Thanks for your reply tonibun. I do understand what you're saying, I think we want to just try and carry on for now as bar the nipping in the cage no real aggression has been shown and they are so incredibly relaxed around each other. Also this is only day 4. Also their very first meeting was absolutely fine but then they seem to be in a love-hate relationship. Especially as with each day they do seem to become increasingly more relaxed around each other and until they get even more relaxed we are hesitant to put them together in the same environment. I just feel like the hate dissipates a little every day and the love increases. I know we're both certainly willing to be as patient as we cant and just give them as much time as they need.

Do you honestly think there is no chance of it ever being ok? We've just been told and heard so many mixed things that it's all very confusing. We were told that they should be ok as Paul is young and Harvey is already neutered, and especially as we know we want to get Paul neutered asap. At the time the new rabbit Paul was the only one Harvey showed any sort of positive reaction to and also the females we saw were either paired or aggressive towards people and didn't want to know Harvey. Just as there may be children in contact with them at times as well and Harvey is such a great, friendly house rabbit we were very put off by the idea of an aggressive rabbit. We do know of females through word of mouth, people looking to get out of the two bunny cycle but don't want to leave their current rabbit alone so want to rehome.
Can you suggest anything that might help? Or any signs that definitely mean a pair won't work as some of the things they do like lay as close as they can through the cages to one another, sniff each other as soon as they're let out into their neighbouring runs in the morning etc seem incredibly positive. And bar the nipping from Harvey through the cage every now and again they have shown great progress.

Thank-you again for your reply!
 
At thge end of the day it is down to personalities and quite a few members of this Forum have 2 males living together happily. But we also get loads of people saying their 2 boys have fallen out so if I had to bet on whether they would be happy or not I know where I would place my bet.

At the moment both your boys have their own territory so they are relaxed and there is no threat as the other bunny is on the other side of the wire. And even if they display aggression through the wire it doesn't mean they won't get on when together as most rabbits react the same way.

The acid test comes when they are put together (in neutral territory) and left for a couple of days supervised, then you will be able to see how it's working out. I wouldn't recommend you do this with a 3 month old as he could be very traumatised or injured, as he will fight back if your other rabbit annoys him, even soft rabbits will fight. On the other hand he (the younger one) could become so submissive he is scared to almost move in fear of what the other one might do. There will always be the dominant rabbit when 2 boys or 2 girls are together, but if you have boy and girl this isn't as noticeable as there is a much more balanced relationship between them. I have many boy/girl couples all very happy.

So, if you can't get them to be happy together, will you be satisfied with 2 single rabbits? I think you mentioned they started circling, this is usually a lead into fighting, not always though as they will do this when they get excited if food is coming.
 
I'm no help at all here, but I will be following this thread!
I hope to eventually bond my two boys together when both are neutered, would love to know how it all goes!
 
Afraid I can't be much help either as I have exactly the same situation here with my boys (lie right next to each other and have even groomed each other through the bars but the one time they met in the open was messy). Taking the advice given here and are now waiting for the younger one to get neutered so we can try a formal introduction again. Very interested to hear how you get on ☺️
 
my boys were great for 1 year, now they are not very happy together. at the moment they are separated by a wire, so they can still see each other. they were out in the garden together while i cleaned out the runs, and it went fine no fighting. so i am going to do it a little at a time. it's so sad to see them on their own.
 
Just thought I'd give a little update and see if there's anyone able to give me some advice. There have been great developments between Harvey and Paul. Harvey hasn't attempted to mount paul for several days now and they are very relaxed around each other. We use the same room each time for bonding, our bathroom which is mopped down with disinfectant after each session to try and prevent it become neutral territory. They are very good at ignoring each other for the most part and appear very relaxed. They will eat in the same room as one another, bunny flop, allow each other to approach but every now and again there are still issues. Paul has been given the green light to be neutered in a weeks time and I think what we're seeing is his spunkiness. Harvey now is genuinely interested in Paul and shows no aggression but randomly and every now and again Paul will be quite aggressive towards Harvey, or at least it looks it and hair pulling occurs, but no biting (both short haired rabbits). Usually Harvey just gets chased away and Paul gives up the chase quite quickly. We've found once paul gets in a 'bad mood' it's hard to get him out of it so we've been putting him in time out. Basically putting him in the shower cubicle with lots of distractions for a few minutes before putting him back in. It seems to hit reset on him and he is then fine. They will quite happily be in the same space as each other but until we have Paul neutered we're wary to put them in a small enough space where they can't both get away from one another. Is this the right thing to do or should we just try it? As they are very comfortable with being the same space as one another is it best to cary on with this tactic until they can be in the same larger area with no chasing before downsizing the territory? We originally thought of slowly but surely making it smaller, making the playpen around the outside slightly smaller every day... But then we don't want to ruin their progress. In some ways we want to just keep them both being around each other the 'norm' until Paul is neutured as obviously for a couple of weeks after that there will be no face to face interaction.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
I'd stick with what's working - just give it more time. I'm not one for small space bonding. Nice to hear its going better - I know what you mean by the reset button thing , it was the same with Boo!
 
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