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Tell me this won't last forever... [venting]

Silverleaf

Alpha Buck
Meeple and Nemesis are 17 weeks old tomorrow and have been hinting at hormonal behaviour for a few weeks, but I've seen a big change this last week. They are definitely acting like teenagers now - it's quite frustrating at times and it's making spending time with them less enjoyable.

I love my boys very much but right now I'm counting the days until they can be neutered (my vet apparently won't neuter until they are 6 months, so not until the new year, basically).

So in the interests of venting, here are the problem behaviours.

Peeing
Both have started peeing a lot outside their litterboxes - Meeple pees on the floor as close to the pen that separates him from Nemesis as possible. Nemmy pees along the front edge of his cage, literally two hops from his box. And it absolutely stinks - I'd forgotten how bad intact bucks smell.

Nemmy has peed on me twice in the last three days - he sits on my lap grooming my arms and then suddenly I have a warm wet stinky leg. Yuk.

Both will also pee on the sofa given half a chance, especially Meep. I've been using cotton throws so I can chuck them in the wash but I'm not having my nice sofa turned into a litterbox. Bunnies are now banned from the sofa, but unfortunately Meep has other ideas.

Failing to respect boundaries
Now Meep is a very clever rabbit who learns extremely quickly - I'm clicker training him and he's doing very well. But he just won't accept that the sofa is mine and that I don't want him on it. Every time he jumps up (about a million times a day) I shoo him off or pick him up and put him on the floor or even gently push him until jumps down, but he's just not getting the message.

I've tried to make the floor the nicest place to be - that's where all the treats and the strokes and head rubs happen. I spend a lot of time sitting with him on the floor. I think he wants to access the prime comfortable relaxing spot, and he jumps up a lot more when I'm on the sofa so perhaps he's trying to challenge me a bit or even just wants attention.

It's making it difficult to read or watch TV or surf the Internet while he's out, and knitting or crocheting is completely out of the question. And I feel bad shutting them away but sometimes I have to just to get a bit of peace!

"Jealousy" and demanding attention
In many ways, this is nice. Meeple is actually asking for strokes now which is lovely, but both can be really insistent that I give them attention, even if they don't really want to be stroked. Presumably this is because of their hormonal urges - they know they want something but they aren't sure what, and head rubs from me are not it. I'm trying to find the balance between giving them the affection they want but not allowing myself to be pestered.

And Nemmy is hyperaware of whether I'm stroking Meeple or not - he seems to be always watching! If I reach out to offer a nose rub to Meep, Nemmy immediately rushes over to the bars of the pen and stands up against it in a very clear "fuss me too!" fashion. He doesn't even really want to be fussed.

Restlessness
So previously when they were out they'd alternate between eating, racing around, and sleeping. They still eat (obviously) but I'm seeing much less running and binkying, much less flopping and snoozing and resting. They are playing with toys more now but they are also doing a lot more of that unsettled pacing around not-really-doing-anything behaviour, as well as spending a lot of time soliciting attention. They only seem to relax properly when they are in their cages.

I don't think any of us are terribly contented right now. :/

Circling and humming
Clearly sexual behaviour from both of them, but Nemesis is by far the worst for this. We used to have a nice relaxed time with him using me as a climbing frame, grooming me, occasionally accepting strokes, ignoring me (polite behaviour in bunnies) and sometimes even napping next to me. Now he just runs around me in circles sounding like an asthmatic old man, scrabbles at my clothes, and basically doesn't want to leave me alone.


So yeah. Bunny time is not so much fun right now. I know it's not their fault and they are very sweet bunnies really and I love them very much, and I feel bad that they seem to be frustrated and unsettled. I feel bad that I can't spend as much time with Nemmy because getting harassed isn't very pleasant, and I feel bad that 90% of my interactions with Meeps tonight were me being the sofa equivalent of a nightclub bouncer insistent that no-one with fur is allowed in.

Do we really have to live like this for over two months? None of my previous bucks have been like this.
 
Is it worth finding a new vet? I see you are in Chesterfield, I'm in Sheffield and my vet is brilliant and i've seen people say they are good with rabbits. They are certainly good with Dylan the two trips hes had for neutering and his post op check. He's not 6 months old yet and hes been done, maybe if its not too much of a trek they could do your two? I'm not sure if there is a reason your vet won't do it early or whether they just like to wait until 6 months with animals
 
waiting until six months for bucks is not very common really, especially amongst rabbit savvy vets. i'd probably try and find another vet (exotics/rabbit-savvy) and get them done sooner if possible.

bisc and matt were neutered at 14 weeks old when bisc's hormonal behaviour started :)
 
Is it worth finding a new vet? I see you are in Chesterfield, I'm in Sheffield and my vet is brilliant and i've seen people say they are good with rabbits. They are certainly good with Dylan the two trips hes had for neutering and his post op check. He's not 6 months old yet and hes been done, maybe if its not too much of a trek they could do your two? I'm not sure if there is a reason your vet won't do it early or whether they just like to wait until 6 months with animals


Which is your vet? I'm also in Sheffueld so if there's a good vet it would be very useful to know
 
It sounds to me like your Vet is very wary about neutering bunnies and likes to wait un til he has a more or less adult one so the chances of something going wrong are slimmer.
 
I've just read through your post. You have 2 male Netherlands which are known for their feisty behaviour, they are vying for dominance and while they are apart they can't actually prove to one another who the dominant one is. Are you prepared to have 2 separate rabbits for the future as the chances of them ever being friends looks dubious. Netherlands are small but usually have big personalities and it could be their size which is holding the Vet back from neutering them.

They have become territorial feeling happier in their own cage and when let out they are marking the territory just to let the other one know whose territory it is. Can you keep them farther apart so all this territory marking can decrease a bit.
 
The girl on reception at my vets told me it's practice policy to wait until 6 months - they like to be on the safe side because it lessens the risk of anaesthetic.

I'm also going on the advice of Jack's Jane, who told me that they should be 1kg before neutering. Neither rabbit is big enough yet - Meeple was 815g last Sunday and Nemesis 720g. Being Nethies though there's a chance they might never make 1kg (although I suspect Meep will be bigger than that because he has quite a chunky build).

I have high hopes of them living together after the neuter. They are littermates and have lived right next to each other since they were separated. They often sleep close together, they are perfectly happy to eat close together, they sniff through the bars and haven't shown any signs of aggression (apart from the initial little incident weeks ago which prompted me to separate them).

Obviously I'd prefer not to have to keep them apart if they aren't compatible but I will if I have to. We won't be able to tell really until after the neuter though, of course.

I don't want to move them further apart for a couple of reasons - I'd need to put one in the kitchen/dining room and they'd get less attention from humans. It would completely break the semi-bond they have now, making rebonding much more difficult. And since exercise time has to be supervised and I can't be in two places at once, they'd get less time out.
 
The girl on reception at my vets told me it's practice policy to wait until 6 months - they like to be on the safe side because it lessens the risk of anaesthetic.

I'm also going on the advice of Jack's Jane, who told me that they should be 1kg before neutering. Neither rabbit is big enough yet - Meeple was 815g last Sunday and Nemesis 720g. Being Nethies though there's a chance they might never make 1kg (although I suspect Meep will be bigger than that because he has quite a chunky build).

I have high hopes of them living together after the neuter. They are littermates and have lived right next to each other since they were separated. They often sleep close together, they are perfectly happy to eat close together, they sniff through the bars and haven't shown any signs of aggression (apart from the initial little incident weeks ago which prompted me to separate them).

Obviously I'd prefer not to have to keep them apart if they aren't compatible but I will if I have to. We won't be able to tell really until after the neuter though, of course.

I don't want to move them further apart for a couple of reasons - I'd need to put one in the kitchen/dining room and they'd get less attention from humans. It would completely break the semi-bond they have now, making rebonding much more difficult. And since exercise time has to be supervised and I can't be in two places at once, they'd get less time out.

If you want to stick with your practice and the advice you've been given on here by Jack's Jane, then I guess you'll have to sit it out.

RWAF advice is four months (with a good weight for their size) is fine. My Nethie hovered under 1kg for a good while .. I wouldn't have waited until he was 1kg to get him neutered, as with a good rabbit vet I wanted him to have the benefit of companionship.

He was absolutely fine :)
 
A lot of this is reminding me of my nethie(?) crosses, Ben and Timothy, when they were that age! They also enjoyed spraying me with pee. The number of times I'd open their cage door and be greeted by a spray of pee right in the face, urgh:lol: They did calm down after awhile though...I can't remember how long that took though.. sorry!

But on the plus side, at least rabbits CAN be neutered! My ducks can be so hormonal which causes all sorts of issues (but I quite like their naughtyness..it's kinda endearing, although annoying at times), sometimes I wonder what they'd be like if they could be neutered!

On a random note, I have a duck named Nemesis that I nicknamed Nemmy! :D Surprised to see someone else with a pet named that. It's a nice name but not very common!
 
I use Peak Vets :) Dylan is my first rabbit with them, but they always treated my rats very well and they have their own out of hours cover :)

Thank you, I'll check them out. They are too far away from me to use as a regular surgery as I don't drive, but I might be able to work something out for the neutering, perhaps.

I've just had a thought - I wonder if the receptionist is thinking of spaying does when she says six months?
 
If you want to stick with your practice and the advice you've been given on here by Jack's Jane, then I guess you'll have to sit it out.

RWAF advice is four months (with a good weight for their size) is fine. My Nethie hovered under 1kg for a good while .. I wouldn't have waited until he was 1kg to get him neutered, as with a good rabbit vet I wanted him to have the benefit of companionship.

He was absolutely fine :)

There's so much conflicting advice out there! I don't know whether to listen to my head (which says wait until 6 months or 1kg -whichever comes first - to minimise the risk of anaesthetic) or my heart (neuter as soon as testicles descend so they can be together again as soon as possible).

I definitely don't want to change vet practices but I guess I could get them neutered somewhere else anyway. I'll have to look into other surgeries I think, and get some options.
 
A lot of this is reminding me of my nethie(?) crosses, Ben and Timothy, when they were that age! They also enjoyed spraying me with pee. The number of times I'd open their cage door and be greeted by a spray of pee right in the face, urgh:lol: They did calm down after awhile though...I can't remember how long that took though.. sorry!

But on the plus side, at least rabbits CAN be neutered! My ducks can be so hormonal which causes all sorts of issues (but I quite like their naughtyness..it's kinda endearing, although annoying at times), sometimes I wonder what they'd be like if they could be neutered!

On a random note, I have a duck named Nemesis that I nicknamed Nemmy! :D Surprised to see someone else with a pet named that. It's a nice name but not very common!

My first bunny (dwarf lop called Kenny who I got in 2000) was a terror for spraying, he used to squirt out a huge jet of pee right at the apex of a binky so it had incredible range! I was forever wiping pee off the walls but luckily usually avoided getting hit in the face. :lol:

Meeps and Nemmy haven't done any spraying, so fingers crossed that they won't get any ideas...

Ducks sound awesome! I'd love to have a few but the boyfriend isn't keen, so it wouldn't be fair for me to keep them. What breed(s) do you have?

Yes, I've never heard of another Nemesis pet either! I really wanted unusual geeky names for my bunnies and I decided on Meeple very quickly (a meeple is a little wooden human-shaped piece from the board games I love) but Nemesis took longer to choose. Eventually I picked it from a mechanic in Sentinels of the Multiverse, my favourite card game.

I've definitely had mixed reactions to it! Some love the names, some clearly think they are weird and don't like them, but everyone agrees they're unusual and a refreshing change from Carrots or Fluffy or Lopsy (not that there's anything wrong with those names, I just wanted something really unique). And there's absolutely no way their vet records will get mixed up with another pet's! ;)
 
You know what's weird? Tonight they are like different rabbits.

I put a litterbox by the pen where Meeple tends to pee, and so far he's been using that instead of the floor. Both have had a run around and multiple resting periods very close to each other including several proper flops. I've had floor time with both rabbits (separately) with minimal circling and no humming, we've done some clicker training and where's-the-food games which they enjoyed. Meeple's jumped on the sofa only twice in four hours, choosing to snooze in the new litter tray instead. I've caught up with most of the forum threads without having to put my iPad down. Nemesis did scrabble at me once but I was distracted while petting him and didn't stop immediately he told me to, so I pretty much deserved it, and he stopped when I squeaked to let him know he hurt me (he didn't hurt me, but he doesn't know that ;)).

It's just been so much calmer and nicer for all of us.

Please tell me this will last forever! :lol:
 
Okay, this is a bit weird but I'm throwing it out there - is it possible that they are responding to my hormones? Not in a sexual way, but just picking up on my behaviour and scent changes which might be a bit unsettling for them? I've been a bit on the premenstrual side (feeling a little irritable and uncomfortable) most of this week and it looks like my period will start tomorrow. I feel much more normal today.

I suppose since they are such social animals and I spend a lot of time with them it would make sense for them to detect even the slightest subtle changes in my behaviour. If I relax, maybe they feel more safe. If I am a PMS monster (honestly I'm nothing more than a bit more grumpy and achy) maybe they can't settle properly.

I know most of the "problem" behaviours are due to their hormones, but perhaps the restlessness and demanding attention is worsened by my behaviour.
 
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