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Head tilt question *** a ruby update! It's looking good!

beki

Mama Doe
Sorry about my many questions but I am finding it difficult to research online.

Ruby's head seems much more tilted today, almost at a sideways angle. I have seen her clean herself and her head seems almost upright, is this normal? I thought it would be stuck tilted.

Is there any way of working out the cause of the tilt? are there any give aways that it could be ec related rather than say an ear infection? Without the ec blood test? Bertie has ec so he could have passed it on, she didn't show a tilt until a week after getting an ulcer in her eye, but her ear had been lowered for a few days after I noticed the ulcer, the tilt is on the other side to the lowered ear though.

is there any extra care I need to do with a rabbit that has head tilt. The bottom eye looks ok apart from a little watery. The top eye has an ulcer which is being treated.

How long would it take to treat a head tilt? Is it something that will bother her if her head remains tilted? I don't want to think about pts but it's niggling at me that I don't want her to be uncomfortable and it to affect her quality of life. I think I am too early in the treatment to give up on her at the moment but want to be able to decide when enough is enough. She is underweight which is worrying me but she is eating and drinking. Both bunnies are on unlimited pellets to ensure she gets enough. I had a cat who had a tumour on her tongue and I tried and tried to help her knowing that all it would do was prolong her life and not cure her. In the end she died at home which was comforting to me as I didn't have to make the pts decision but really I should have let her go at least a month before that happened, it's just so hard when you love your pet so much and I think that sometimes that love prevents you from making the right decisions.
 
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My bunny had severe head tilt, as far as we could tell from EC, it took her a couple on months to be on good form & afterwards (we had 2 more happy years) she always wore her head on a jaunty angle & had a tendency to run in circles but she had a good quality of life. Our newest bunny, Mouse had head tilt a few months before we adopted her. Both Noodle & Mouse would definitely have more of a tilt at certain times. Mouse has straightened up since we got her but still looks a tad wonky when she sleeps.

I think how long does it take to treat will depend on the cause, treatment & individual bunny. I hope for your little one it's a short journey to a full recovery
 
Oh Beki, I'm sorry this is bothering you.. Not surprising though since we all love our little ones so much.

It's impossible to say how long recovery will take, or even if there *will* be a complete recovery.

The cause of the head tilt is something your vet should be able to help you out with, studying her symptoms. It's very difficult to diagnose accurately, but if there was some ear involvement, then does your vet think it a possibility it could be due to that?

It's so difficult to know when enough is enough. I think we beat ourselves up about 'the time' so much when it comes to our animals. I know there are people who say that they would rather PTS too soon than too late, and that's their opinion. I tend to look closely, and dispassionately, at my little person and make a judgement of when the time is right. They give us so many little signs as to when they choose to give up the fight.

Give her a bit of time to show you how she is - whether she is getting better or hanging back. There will be good days and better days, so try not to judge too hastily. Over time, it will become clear how to proceed :love:
 
Thank you for your reply joey&boo. It's good to hear that your bunnies were happy and treatment worked.

I'm hoping whatever it is it has been caught early. If it is due to ear infection, it has been caught within days of the tilt starting, if it is ec, both bunnies were treated in April so if it is a re infection then hopefully I have caught this early too. I plan on starting treatment with lapizole tomorrow as it only arrived in the post today!
 
Thanks mighty max, the vet seems to think it could be an ear infection but cannot say for definate as Bertie has (most likely) active ec with his eye problems. I'm not ready to stop treatment yet and I don't think she is at that stage either, she is still very inquisitive and wants to come out the hutch. I should probably let her out, maybe in the run on grass, I just haven't so far as I am afraid of her hurting herself, but it's also unfair to leave her in the hutch, even though it's a big one.

She just looks so bad, though I expect she looks worse than she actually is and the big white blob on her eye from the ulcer doesn't make her look any better, I am sure this is improving though but the vet warned there could be some scarring.
 
Thanks mighty max, the vet seems to think it could be an ear infection but cannot say for definate as Bertie has (most likely) active ec with his eye problems. I'm not ready to stop treatment yet and I don't think she is at that stage either, she is still very inquisitive and wants to come out the hutch. I should probably let her out, maybe in the run on grass, I just haven't so far as I am afraid of her hurting herself, but it's also unfair to leave her in the hutch, even though it's a big one.

She just looks so bad, though I expect she looks worse than she actually is and the big white blob on her eye from the ulcer doesn't make her look any better, I am sure this is improving though but the vet warned there could be some scarring.

I know it's very difficult to get over how a bunny looks. But remember, they don't have a mirror (You didn't give her one, did you? ;)). She is taking life for what it is - so try not to let appearances get you down.

If you could let her out for a little supervised run, it may do her good from the point of view of strengthening muscles?

Did your vet recommend another course of Lapizole?
 
Yes the vet recommended another course of lapizole, I ordered it from vet UK as cheaper and it took 5 days to arrive so I have only just got it! I'm going to start it for both bunnies tomorrow. The vet said to try it just in case, she would think it unlikely to be ec as I only finished a 28 day course mid April but she said no harm in trying and we could hopefully rule out ec after another course of that.

It's looking like rain tomorrow and my bunnies are odd and hate the rain! I'll set the run on the grass if there is a dry spell and put them in there, I'm sure she can't hurt herself on the grass.

No I haven't given her a mirror! Lol! She would probably try and eat it though if i did :)
 
Yes the vet recommended another course of lapizole, I ordered it from vet UK as cheaper and it took 5 days to arrive so I have only just got it! I'm going to start it for both bunnies tomorrow. The vet said to try it just in case, she would think it unlikely to be ec as I only finished a 28 day course mid April but she said no harm in trying and we could hopefully rule out ec after another course of that.

It's looking like rain tomorrow and my bunnies are odd and hate the rain! I'll set the run on the grass if there is a dry spell and put them in there, I'm sure she can't hurt herself on the grass.

No I haven't given her a mirror! Lol! She would probably try and eat it though if i did :)

Bless :love:

I hope you all have a good day tomorrow, and that you feel better about it all Beki. These things can get us down so much and sometimes we don't realise how low we are getting.... Strength to you all :D
 
Ruby took her antibiotics just now like a good girl but she wouldn't have the lapizole! I probably only got half the dose down her, most of it went on the table! bertie hasn't had his dose yet, he hopped off and hid in a corner where I can't reach him, I promised him I would be back later! Why can't these bunnies know what's good for them and just take their medicine?
 
Have you tried smearing it on a malted shreddie or something similar. A bit naughty I know but it gets the job done
 
Weetabix worked well last time I have a full course and I might have to resort to this again. I just wanted to make sure they both had the full dose as last time I suspect one of the pair had more than their share of weetabix. I'll have to block the hutch ramp off and give one a bowl of weetabix at the top level and one at the bottom
 
I'd give it them on the tiniest piece possible then less chance of nicking each others. Malted shreddie size was perfect. I hope they are fooled!
 
At the risk of being controversial here, I had a discussion with my specialist recently about Panacur/Lapizole. Because of events with my bunnies neither of us were inclined to give it 'just in case' any more, and felt that in the case of one of my buns, it had actually caused harm.

I won't go into details, but- of course bring light-hearted - maybe your buns know this and are putting up resistance because of that? :)
 
I did ask the vets after the 28 day course I gave if you need to give regular treatment and she said no as it's not proven to have any benefit but advised I give another 28 day course because of the head tilt. She isn't overly sure of the cause of the tilt so wants to cover all bases.

Would you not give more ec treatment for a head tilt bun then mighty max?
 
I did ask the vets after the 28 day course I gave if you need to give regular treatment and she said no as it's not proven to have any benefit but advised I give another 28 day course because of the head tilt. She isn't overly sure of the cause of the tilt so wants to cover all bases.

Would you not give more ec treatment for a head tilt bun then mighty max?

You gave a course in April? Then I personally would not give another course of treatment right now. Please don't let that stop you following your instinct or your vet's advice. Difficult call I know ...
 
I have given them 3 days worth of lapizole now, I'm finding it very difficult to get down Ruby even when putting it on weetabix. I'm unsure what to do with continuing it mighty max especially after what you said. My vet would be surprised if it was ec but she is concerned by the head tilt though does say it is likely to be an ear infection but she can't be 100% sure at the moment.

Ruby's tilt has got worse, almost at a 90 degree angle now. She seems to be coping well though, can get up and down the ramp and is eating and drinking. Can it ever be a car of getting worse before it gets better? We are back at the vets at 6pm.

Before the tilt started I did notice her holding one of her ears down for a couple of days, the ear went back up and around 5 days later the tilting started.
 
I have given them 3 days worth of lapizole now, I'm finding it very difficult to get down Ruby even when putting it on weetabix. I'm unsure what to do with continuing it mighty max especially after what you said. My vet would be surprised if it was ec but she is concerned by the head tilt though does say it is likely to be an ear infection but she can't be 100% sure at the moment.

Ruby's tilt has got worse, almost at a 90 degree angle now. She seems to be coping well though, can get up and down the ramp and is eating and drinking. Can it ever be a car of getting worse before it gets better? We are back at the vets at 6pm.

Before the tilt started I did notice her holding one of her ears down for a couple of days, the ear went back up and around 5 days later the tilting started.

With head tilt things can get worse before they improve, regardless of whether it is EC or Otitis Media that is the problem. I cant remember if Ruby is on Metacam ? Inflammation is the primary cause of the tilt so addressing this with a non steroidal anti-inflammatory may be of benefit.

I have never used Fenbendazole as a 'preventative' against EC, as advised by my Vet. I also posted this thread ages ago

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?431438-EC-Fenbendazole(-Panacur-etc)-Resistance

Many Exotics specialists think that Otitis Media is usually a more likely cause of head tilt. This especially being the opinion amongst US Exotics Vets.

I believe a Iain Cope (Exotics Referral Vet) is in the process of trying to obtain Funding for a major study of EC and it's treatment as part of his RCVS Fellowship Thesis. Not sure how far along the line that process is at now though. Without a doubt more research into EC is needed as at the moment there are so many different opinions on treatment protocols.
 
I have given them 3 days worth of lapizole now, I'm finding it very difficult to get down Ruby even when putting it on weetabix. I'm unsure what to do with continuing it mighty max especially after what you said. My vet would be surprised if it was ec but she is concerned by the head tilt though does say it is likely to be an ear infection but she can't be 100% sure at the moment.

Ruby's tilt has got worse, almost at a 90 degree angle now. She seems to be coping well though, can get up and down the ramp and is eating and drinking. Can it ever be a car of getting worse before it gets better? We are back at the vets at 6pm.

Before the tilt started I did notice her holding one of her ears down for a couple of days, the ear went back up and around 5 days later the tilting started.

From everything you've said, I would go with ear infection. Please don't let me put you off giving another course of Lapizole if that's what your instinct tells you is the best thing.

If she is on antibiotics (and it can be more than one) and Metacam for any pain and inflammation, you are doing all you can. She is getting lots of exercise which is helpful in strengthening muscles.

Rabbits don't get resistant to Lapizole, but it is not without unwanted side effects, as any drug is. One of my rabbits in particular experienced serious side effects which the specialist has attributed to Panacur.

Good luck at the vets tonight x
 
Seen the vet. She admitted she doesn't know what could be the cause, it could be an ear infection but she wonders if there is a neurological element as the eye with the ulcer doesn't blink, it didn't last week either, I have lubricating gel for this eye. She has said that if the lapizole is stressing Ruby out (she will not take it at all) to not give it to her as it is very unlikely to be ec as she has recently had the full course of lapizole. I'm to continue with the eye drops and baytril (not got metacam) and take her back in 2 weeks.

The vet initially though the worst as Ruby was very stressed and flopped on to her side and would not get back up. I told the vet she was acting fine at home. Vet out her back in the box after checking her over and Ruby attacked her towel and her head went from a 90 degree angle to almost upright! Vet said that if she was acting like that she seems ok in herself we would continue the treatment as she is obviously coping and happy in herself. At the moment she thinks she is probably ok and hoping we can make improvements over the next couple of weeks.
 
Seen the vet. She admitted she doesn't know what could be the cause, it could be an ear infection but she wonders if there is a neurological element as the eye with the ulcer doesn't blink, it didn't last week either, I have lubricating gel for this eye. She has said that if the lapizole is stressing Ruby out (she will not take it at all) to not give it to her as it is very unlikely to be ec as she has recently had the full course of lapizole. I'm to continue with the eye drops and baytril (not got metacam) and take her back in 2 weeks.

The vet initially though the worst as Ruby was very stressed and flopped on to her side and would not get back up. I told the vet she was acting fine at home. Vet out her back in the box after checking her over and Ruby attacked her towel and her head went from a 90 degree angle to almost upright! Vet said that if she was acting like that she seems ok in herself we would continue the treatment as she is obviously coping and happy in herself. At the moment she thinks she is probably ok and hoping we can make improvements over the next couple of weeks.

Did the Vet say why she did not want to prescribe Metacam ?

I hope Ruby will settle down OK again now that she is back in her familiar environment xx
 
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