day 1 bonding going well.... but have I made a mistake?

I'm such a stresshead guys, I absolutely cannot relax and worry myself sick hahah....

I need some peace of mind form you again...

So today, I brought Lolita, our adopted white lionlop dwarf, home at last she was super uncomfortable and wouldn't let us touch her for hours after settling in her pen (next to our Hades), so picking her up and getting them onto a neutral territory wasn't possible. We decided to just go along with it since he was quite curious, let him out and opened up her pen.... Mind you, this has been his territory for over a year now... And it went ok. After over an hour of mostly ignoring each other and sleeping in opposite corners, HE started making the effort and coming up to her, and she wasn't very happy, it ended up as an initial chase, with a few kisses and rubs from him later. At last they tried to mount in turns but each time aiming at the face so we ended up separating them.

Round two a few hours later, she managed to get under the chest of drawers (which is one of Hades favourite hideouts) and then he attacked her. I pulled him out and they continued like nothing ever happened... Well, I say that; basically he just chases her around. Whenever she manages to lie down he'd come up and try to hump, 90% of the time her face. So I separate them. Anyway, she doesn't really like that at all, she runs to the other corner and hides there, and so round it goes. Finally, I had to give up because it was all a manic chase with constant thumping.

She's also doing her best to escape the pen....

Plan for tomorrow is basically same as today, after that I have no idea what I'll do since I'll be working for the next 10 days in a row by the looks of it. There is pretty much always someone in the house and looking after him - now them -, but not someone who could carry on with their bonding. My question is, was it a terrible mistake to introduce her on his territory, since he will probably start claiming it back asap? And what does this mad chasing and humping means, especially her running away... It only worries me because neither of them will stop thumping! If anyone can suggest an action plan for what to do after tomorrow when I'm not at home, please do share

I wouldn't do any more bonding on his territory. It really needs to be neutral territory for the bond to have the best chance of working. I think I would leave bonding until after you have finished this stretch of work, as you only have today and they won't be bonded in one day. It will give her chance to settle in properly, and then try to set aside several days where you can stay with them constantly and start bonding then.

Chasing, humping and thumping is all normal. Just intervene if they start circling, fighting or head humping.

Zoobec said:

I wouldn't do any more bonding on his territory. It really needs to be neutral territory for the bond to have the best chance of working. I think I would leave bonding until after you have finished this stretch of work, as you only have today and they won't be bonded in one day. It will give her chance to settle in properly, and then try to set aside several days where you can stay with them constantly and start bonding then.

Chasing, humping and thumping is all normal. Just intervene if they start circling, fighting or head humping.

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Very good advice.

So don't do today at all? They still seem interested and sniffing and trying to get out!

Persephone said:

So don't do today at all? They still seem interested and sniffing and trying to get out!

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I would definitely follow Zoobec's advice re time and neutral space.

You risk any hope of a successful bond if you try to rush things or don't heed the advice about territory - and that would be such a pity.

Can I just add, boys are not as territorial as girls hence the breeders always put the girl into the buck's hutch. I would say that if you give a proper go AND if it doesn't work out you will have to follow the previous advice. But the boy will chase the girl, this is to be expected, also some humping, but no fighting must be allowed to continue for more than 3 seconds, usually the submissive one gives in after this time. Also all bonds are slightly different in one way or another, you are the best person to judge how things are going. Good luck.

tonibun said:

Can I just add, boys are not as territorial as girls hence the breeders always put the girl into the buck's hutch. I would say that if you give a proper go AND if it doesn't work out you will have to follow the previous advice. But the boy will chase the girl, this is to be expected, also some humping, but no fighting must be allowed to continue for more than 3 seconds, usually the submissive one gives in after this time. Also all bonds are slightly different in one way or another, you are the best person to judge how things are going. Good luck.

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Personally I don't think it is worth the risk.

Well, so far my approach has been mostly "go for it". Despite the advice, I did give them half an hour again, because I can see that they are keen on each other, and kiss through the bars. I'm learning to read them and feel like I can see the boundaries. There is still a long way to go between them which I can see, but again, it ended up as him chasing and her not letting him mount her. There is no aggression, she is just so well tempered, but he gets very frustrated. From now on I will follow the advice, but I might try later if he insists on it... Or swap their pens for the night!

What surprises me most is that when they met at the rescue she was the dominant, and grooming him, and trying to calm him down. Now she's the scaredy one! But at the same time, I already said that Hades has become a nightmare after neutering, constant aggression and destruction. Since yesterday he has been so different! He comes up to me for cuddles all the time which is something he's rarely done even in his good days.

Fingers crossed I don't make a mistake! Oh also, are you saying she might become territorial?

Persephone said:

Well, so far my approach has been mostly "go for it". Despite the advice, I did give them half an hour again, because I can see that they are keen on each other, and kiss through the bars. I'm learning to read them and feel like I can see the boundaries. There is still a long way to go between them which I can see, but again, it ended up as him chasing and her not letting him mount her. There is no aggression, she is just so well tempered, but he gets very frustrated. From now on I will follow the advice, but I might try later if he insists on it... Or swap their pens for the night!

What surprises me most is that when they met at the rescue she was the dominant, and grooming him, and trying to calm him down. Now she's the scaredy one! But at the same time, I already said that Hades has become a nightmare after neutering, constant aggression and destruction. Since yesterday he has been so different! He comes up to me for cuddles all the time which is something he's rarely done even in his good days.

Fingers crossed I don't make a mistake! Oh also, are you saying she might become territorial?

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I hope all goes well but won't be offering any further advice.

Babsie said:

I hope all goes well but won't be offering any further advice.

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I understand, thank you! As I said, I will follow the advice, I'm just inexperienced and feel sorry for them! Lol

To be honest - we've bonded 4 pairs using this sort of method - 'just see what happens' and we've been exceptionally lucky. Bug and Prudhoe were the hardest as both of them wanted to be dominant and weren't actually bonded when we moved into our new house - but just seeing how quickly they sorted themselves out in the new house - and being on neutral territory - taught me a very valuable lesson - LISTEN to the RU folks - they know what they're on about.:lol:

Whilst it is very natural for your boy to hump the girl - face and bum - BUT the girl may eventually get totally fed up and retaliate faster than you can seperate them and there could be damage done. You need to give them a very long time together constantally for the boy to get the 'humping' out of his system. The putting together/taking apart is just pronlonging this. And it really is better in a small, neutral area - you can use a pet carrier to get your girl there if she is being snarly about being picked up. Once the humping has more or less stopped and there is grooming then you know you're more or less there -but no guarantees. You will need to make sure the area they have been living in/will be living in is as neutral as possible - cleaning and scrubbing thoroughly with white wine vinegar/water will help with this.

Good luck though - I know the buns are saying 'please let us be together' but you need to be patient to ensure a good and proper bond.

Thanks Fellie, that answers all my questions! It helps a lot to hear the reasons for the advice, if you know what I mean, since at the same time I am only going by how I interpret their behaviour. It starts to look like she's getting more comfortable so if I leave them be over the weekend? Or is that too long? I can do it properly then. His room has been cleaned thoroughly before her arrival, but now I need to start letting him out again. Is it a problem that they are in the same room? I'm really limited on space so there isn't anywhere else I can put either of them.

I have only ever bonded in a small, neutral space and really wouldn't recommend bonding on his territory... but lots of people have already told you that.

Personally until you can put them in a small, neutral space I wouldn't try and bond them. Attempting to let them bond in a whole room just won't work I don't think, and you run the risk of failing the bond altogether.

I've bonded various bunnies including two trios, and I've only ever had one failed bond (two girls that fell out) so I know my method works

chloemurray said:

I have only ever bonded in a small, neutral space and really wouldn't recommend bonding on his territory... but lots of people have already told you that.

Personally until you can put them in a small, neutral space I wouldn't try and bond them. Attempting to let them bond in a whole room just won't work I don't think, and you run the risk of failing the bond altogether.

I've bonded various bunnies including two trios, and I've only ever had one failed bond (two girls that fell out) so I know my method works

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Right, I am fully set on following the advice! I admit that I have made if not a mistake, then certainly not the best decision. Now I have just one question...

Obviously, Hades is my first and most beloved, and it's his room (my bedroom) they are in. He *is* spoiled, and used to being let out, not just being in a pen, but for most of the day around the top floor. Right now I don't know if I can let him out, since she's in the same room.... They sniff and try to rub through the bars, but obviously after you guys have said all this about bonding, I need to know whether I can let him out with her being there.

Also, this is less relevant, but I've encountered an issue.... Basically she's in the 5.5"x5.5" playpen for now. I'm not going to lie, I cannot afford to buy a cage or hutch at the moment. But today, after leaving for a few hours, I came back to see that pen moved off the flooring we laid down and all the way across the room. She tries to force through the bars as if to escape, but at the same time she manages to literally move the whole thing. And altogether that pen is 6kg. I guess I will have to buy a cage for her tomorrow... But I really cannot afford it. Anyway, I just needed to let this off my chest.

Bobo was our first bun - and like Hades a very spoilt little chap who had full free range of the lounge/hall way/bedrooms. When we got Harley - he did have to back to into his pen whilst so that Harley could have free range time as well - and he was absolutly fine with it - a bribe of a bowl of herbs worked wonders . We did use to block up his pen though so that he couldn't see Harley when she was out and we would block of Harley's pen so she couldn't see Bobo when he was out. We flattened cardboard boxes to do this...and it just kept the buns calmer as they couldn't see what was going on. Your girl is trying desperately to get out of her pen because she can see Hades. Maybe you can use some heavy books or something to keep the pen in place?

It is more difficult to bond if you don't have a neutral area - but it is still do-able but I would let her settle in first and let them get used to the idea of having each other in the same territory. It seems great that they are getting on well when seperated by the bars of the pen - Bobo and Harley started off like this. Maybe give it a week or so and then try them together properly again - and try to leave them together as long as possible so that they have a chance to settle down. But don't for one moment leave them alone - I've seen 2 peaceful buns ignoring each other suddenly turn on each other with no warning.

As a very last resort - you could put them into a pet carrier together and take them for a 30 min car ride - the stress of it will make them forget about humping etc and they will turn to each other for comfort. However - I hate this method but I know it does work - we had to take Sheldon and Holly to the vets anyway for vaccinations so took advantage of that and it sorted them out (Sheldon would not stop humping Holly).

Bonding is one of the most stressful things I find about bunny ownership - we cannot always do bonding by the book as it depends on individual circumstances- but there are loads of different experiences on RU and at least you know you're not alone.

Fellie, thank you for your support. As I said, my method wasn't great but I am also frustrated due to feeling handicapped. I run between two houses and three jobs to make ends meet and at the moment a whole day off is just not something that happens. I had to move back with my parents when I already had Hades, but it's hard on them after I've been independent for 6 years. At least my mother loves him! I've negotiated to have the kitchen space for their proper bonding, which would be either Tuesday or Wednesday. I'm still worried that they will start perceiving the being together but separate as the way it's supposed to be and won't get on if I delay it... But I think what you've explained makes perfect sense. As far as I understand, bonding for a few hours then separating is a bad idea, which is good to know because that's what my mum decided to do tonight! Phew.... I'll just need to get home on my split and try to secure the pen.

Her settling down isn't going very fast. She's letting us stroke for a couple of seconds then runs away. Then she does the flop and once she's stretched like that, she is more keen on petting. As you can imagine Hades wasnt ever like that. Her litter training isn't going well at all, but at least she's started to groom herself, she was super mucky and caked in everything from the rescue.

As they say on that baby food ad 'Take it from us - you're doing great':thumb: I think Bobo must be a tough little bun - the amount of mistakes we made with him just purely trying to do the right thing...poor little sod - and we did all of our bonding completely wrong but were just extremly lucky to have just two fights which we were able to split up quickly - but I am older and wiser now (yeah right :lol

It does sound incredibly tough for you - and I am so glad you've got some space now for the bonding. It's just something you have to go through - and then you'll have a pair of loved up buns that will just make you want to cry at the cuteness. And with all the madness happening in your life - I think is lovely that you still found time to re-home your girl, and to give Hades a partner - and it will be repaid when you come home to two happy buns.

All buns take different times to settle in - and your girl might just be one of those buns that doesn't really like human contact or insists it is on her terms - my Harley hates being stroked and just bolts if I try (she seems to adore the lady I have in to groom her though - falls asleep on her lap the little traitor :lol:). Time, patience - and bunny treats (AKA bribes) are all that is needed.