E.C and advocating for your rabbit

I hope I don't upset anyone by this post, it's merely a reminder to advocate for your rabbit at the vets.

Sweep contracted what we now know to be EC earlier this year. He was a very severe case, more details can be found on his thread in health

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?428781-Vibes-for-Sweepy

He wasn't eating, he couldn't walk, his head was at a full 90 degree angle and he was continually rolling over and getting stressed. We had to force feed him and then hand feed him for weeks, he had to have towels propping him up to restrict the rolling, he had to have 3 types of medication daily and change his bedding twice daily to stop him resting his eye in anything.

2 weeks went by with no improvement. Then he started to nibble fresh grass for himself. Then herbs. Then dried herbs. Then came the pellets. He started using a water bottle by himself. Then the big leap and he magically started eating hay again.

Another few weeks went by, then he started to stand up properly, he started to move around his cage and the rolling got better. He then learnt to hop again.

Now, months on, he is a normal rabbit again. Yes, he has a head tilt, and yes, I'm still hoping it gets better, but in all other respects he is himself again.

The vet at the animal hospital (not my normal vet, he had to be admitted there) wanted to PTS after one week. I declined - he deserved more of a change. Then week 2, she suggested it would be only fair. I had a lot of support on the thread and wanted to keep trying. After she recommended the 3rd time I stopped going there.

Now, a few times since this saga began, I've noticed owners of other EC bunnies listening to their vet, and opting to PTS EC bunnies, some not nearly as bad as Sweep was. Now, I'm not saying don't listen to your vet but please, please remember to advocate for your bunny. Some vets clearly don't have experience of EC or even don't think it's worth the treatment, but as shown on Sweep's thread and by my experience, bunnies CAN get through EC, no matter how bad it looks at the start. You can't imagine how glad I am that I ignored the advice of my vet! Sweep is still here, he's still Sweep and I plan to re-bond him with his partner over winter so he can live out the rest of his life.

I think that if a client consults a Vet they know well and that they trust then open and honest dialogue about what is right for the individual Rabbit is far more likely to leave the owner feeling that they are making the correct decision. Whilst I completely agree that it is always important to advocate for your Rabbit I dont think it is always 'wrong' that a different decision is made than the one you felt was right for Sweep. Yes, it is very possible for a Rabbit to recover from EC, if not fully then at least to the point where-by they have a good quality of life. On the other hand some Rabbits do not recover, or they go on to develop renal problems due to EC and thus may recover from the neurological symptoms but then have chronic renal failure. Also, some Rabbits cannot cope with a lot of hands on intensive nursing care which is often necessary for weeks on end in severe cases of EC. In such circumstances I personally could not put a very unwell Rabbit through weeks and weeks of stress with no guarantee of a good outcome.

I guess what I am trying to say, but probably doing so badly, is that advocating for your Rabbit is vitally important. But it is equally important to remember that every single case needs to be judged on it's own merit. To treat may be very right for some, as it clearly has been for Sweep. But if an owner, in consultation with a trusted Vet, has made the PTS decision they too have done the right thing for their Rabbit.

I think as long as a person doesn't feel bulldozed by the vet into making that final decision, any decision could be the 'right' one for that animal. The owner knows far more about the quality of life of the animal than the vet does.

I think for me the issue is far more of a wide one about whether a person is seeing a knowledgeable vet than whether they might recommend to put to sleep too early.

Absolutely Jane, and to iterate nowhere have I said it is 'wrong' to PTS, as of course each case is different.

I just worry that sometimes vets opt to PTS too often, and too soon. I know they are the experts and of course we need to be able to trust them, but doing your own research, getting a second opinion (vet), seeking advice from others that have been through the same, is so vitally important than just PTS because your vet says so.

ETA: Sarah I have always said that if my own vet (who is good with buns but not an expert) recommended PTS, I would seek a second opinion from one (or both) of two local rabbit specialists who I know and trust. When Sweep was not improving I made the decision that if he hadn't improved in x amount of time, I would take to see one of those vets, and if they said PTS, then I would do. Luckily Sweep started improving so there was no need to go ahead with that plan.

I share catherine09's experience. Were it not for RU and lots of other research on my part, plus listening to what I felt Mimzy wanted, he would not be here today. My vet is certainly compassionate as well as knowledgable and she also recommend pts, but admitted that she hasn't seen everything and so Mimzy's recovery was miraculous for both of us.
I've had occasion to encourage others to advocate since then and some have fared well...others have not. I feel very badly for those who have fought alongside their bunnies and then had to PTS shortly thereafter. Not every bunny can beat this or live well afterwards and I hope somehow in seeing the survivors, and in remembering those lost, it will spur the veterinary community to dig deeper into researching e.c. and maybe one day come up with something more efficient to combat it.

But always, always it is about that voiceless life and what would be best for him/her. I realize my 'stolen time' with Mimzy may be drawing to a close before much longer, almost three years on, but I'm so glad that continuing was the right decision for both of us. And when that final decision comes I think we will both be better prepared for it. As much as anyone is at least.

I had exactly the same experience a couple of years ago with one of my buns. The young vet I saw had only seen one case and I had no experience of the disease before. It was only with the advice from this forum that I knew what meds to ask for and was told how long it can take before they improve that made me not give up and keep nursing her. She also made a good recovery and was rebonded with her sister and had a normal life with a very slight tilt of her head. The advice on here from experienced owners can be invaluable. Thanks. X

catherine09 said:

Absolutely Jane, and to iterate nowhere have I said it is 'wrong' to PTS, as of course each case is different.

I just worry that sometimes vets opt to PTS too often, and too soon. I know they are the experts and of course we need to be able to trust them, but doing your own research, getting a second opinion (vet), seeking advice from others that have been through the same, is so vitally important than just PTS because your vet says so.

ETA: Sarah I have always said that if my own vet (who is good with buns but not an expert) recommended PTS, I would seek a second opinion from one (or both) of two local rabbit specialists who I know and trust. When Sweep was not improving I made the decision that if he hadn't improved in x amount of time, I would take to see one of those vets, and if they said PTS, then I would do. Luckily Sweep started improving so there was no need to go ahead with that plan.

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They are not always the experts. I have rung my trusted vet surgery and been given advice which would have led my rabbit to certain death had I followed it. Intuition and our own knowledge, and also knowing our pets better than any vet, gives us a massive advantage.

Of course a vet's input can be vital, but just as with GP's, there's a great variety of expertise out there, and IMO we have to use our own judgement in conjunction with vet's advice.

I think yes its important to advocate but also pts is not necessarily the wrong decision E .C requires a huge personal and time commitment from the owner severe cases can need nursed long term not every owner would be able to cope in this situation pts would be kindest I have nursed one bun with E.C and had another one pts each case is individual jamesey hated human contact so the amount of stress he would have endured was not best for him

seeking advice from others that have been through the same, is so vitally important than just PTS because your vet says so.

willowflower27 said:

I think yes its important to advocate but also pts is not necessarily the wrong decision E .C requires a huge personal and time commitment from the owner severe cases can need nursed long term not every owner would be able to cope in this situation pts would be kindest I have nursed one bun with E.C and had another one pts each case is individual jamesey hated human contact so the amount of stress he would have endured was not best for him

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I work full time. Sweep stayed at the animal hospital being intensively nursed until he started to drink and eat small pieces for himself, he then came home and I would pick him a huge bunch of fresh grass and herbs in the morning (the only thing he would eat at the time) and made sure I had seen him eating before I left for work. I then repeated this as soon as I got home (I picked so much in the AM that he always had some leftover, so I'd replace that for fresh). I got up half an hour earlier to do meds, etc. He was syringe fed every evening to keep his weight stable. I also came home any lunchtime that I could to check on him (although with the nature of my job sometimes isn't possible). This went on for a couple of months and yes it was taking up a lot of my time but I didn't care as long as he was showing signs that he was still fighting.

I agree it depends whether the bun is happy with being intensively fed, etc, and we are lucky that Sweep is very calm and friendly (although he did put up a real fight at syringe feed time, admittedly), but I personally don't think anyone should PTS a bunny that could make a recovery just because they don't have enough time to intensively nurse? Just my opinion as I managed fine with working full time and would either pay for them to stay admitted or pay a bunny friend to nurse in the daytime if they weren't eating.

MightyMax said:

They are not always the experts. I have rung my trusted vet surgery and been given advice which would have led my rabbit to certain death had I followed it. Intuition and our own knowledge, and also knowing our pets better than any vet, gives us a massive advantage.

Of course a vet's input can be vital, but just as with GP's, there's a great variety of expertise out there, and IMO we have to use our own judgement in conjunction with vet's advice.

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Absolutely, although that's a seperate debate :lol::roll: