BONDING advice and opinions

Hello Bunny-friends,

We are first timers in terms of trying to bond two bunnies… We have our boy (neutered, 4,5 years old), who has been with us since he was a baby…he was not around other bunnies in his life), and now we adopted a little girly, who has been around other bunnies… The introduction went perfectly fine, the girly seemed to be interested, she showed her dominance, our boy was fine with it… And thus the bonding process began..when they are next to each other in separate cages, they are relaxed, even from 2 inches away from each other, they flop, eat, etc… when one of them is outside, our boy really doesn't like it, he makes sudden movements towards the hutch, etc… after about 2 weeks we started the actual bonding in a neutral environment (my office).. At first everything goes as it should, they ignore each other, these sniff around, and then they have a little running session, not too harsh, not too violent, some nipping, nothing serious..she is smaller, and more agile, so she is always jumping away from him easily…

And here is the thing, she seems to be terrified of him. whenever he wants to hop closer to investigate, she thumps her feet and runs away to the other side of the bonding area.. every…time.. at one point, when we tried a much smaller space she did show dominance again with the humping movements, and nothing violent happened, but she seems to be scared just as much afterwards…. It is like she doesn't want to forgive the way he acts when they are at home…. It is so strange to see, I am very confused by the signals… she dominated him, yet she seems to be afraid.

Based on your experience, can this improve? He does't have a chance to show interest and gentle intentions, because she immediately runs away, looking scared.
Any thoughts?

Right. Normally what happens for say 3 days is the boy chases the girl and she runs away. By day 3 she is becoming more confident and he shouldn't be chasing as much. You will start to see them sitting closer together, eating together and this is the start of them bonding. Don't separate them at this stage just keep things the same and in about a week's time they should hopefully be settling down with one another. Then you can extend their area or try them in the place where they will be living. Good luck. If you see them doing something which is too rough tell them to stop it, give them something to eat to take their minds off their aggression - this also shows them what the purpose is of putting them together

tonibun said:

Right. Normally what happens for say 3 days is the boy chases the girl and she runs away. By day 3 she is becoming more confident and he shouldn't be chasing as much. You will start to see them sitting closer together, eating together and this is the start of them bonding. Don't separate them at this stage just keep things the same and in about a week's time they should hopefully be settling down with one another. Then you can extend their area or try them in the place where they will be living. Good luck. If you see them doing something which is too rough tell them to stop it, give them something to eat to take their minds off their aggression - this also shows them what the purpose is of putting them together

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Well, they are not in one hutch, they are in separate hutches right next to each other…literally flopping and eating next to each other (2 inches?)… We cannot let them outside together or put them in the same hutch, because the whole house is our boy's territory. And he is quite offensive with her because of this. To get used to each others scent, etc, they switch hutches ever day. And no, there is not one room he is not familiar with. That is why we take them to my office (5 mins walk), where he is not offensive at all. We did this 3 times, they spent roughly 45-60 mins in each others company. And it is not real chasing that takes place… Every now and then the male would like to hop closer, but she makes a run for it when he gets close.. He tries to reach after her for about a split second, and then he is just sitting there, not understanding it. He is comfortable in this situation, he is flopping, sorting out his ears and fur..quite calm. Ad in the meantime, the girly is just sitting further away, not moving, just watching him. genuinely looks afraid. So this goes on and on…boy taking time to just chill, flop, and after a while decides to check her out, and then she makes a run for it, thumping..even humming at times...3 times we tried, 3 different days… It is really strange, because at home, they both change. The boy is really aggressive towards her, but she is curious…(they cannot be outside the same time, due to his offensive moves), it is really puzzling. I am hoping that she would stop being afraid eventually, and then if they could start bonding, situation would change at home, too.

I understand what you are saying but you must keep them together as every time you separate them you move backwards. Once they are bonded he no doubt will be less territorial.

tonibun said:

I understand what you are saying but you must keep them together as every time you separate them you move backwards. Once they are bonded he no doubt will be less territorial.

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Wow, I was told to gradually let them be in one space…little by little.

Most of us here agree not to separate them unless they are fighting. I have 25 bonded pairs so I do have a little bit of experience. You could keep 2 rabbits next to one another for years and when you put them together they would fight as when they are in separate cages nothing is being proved and if you let just 1 out it will cause aggression between them if the free one can approach the other's cage.

tonibun said:

Most of us here agree not to separate them unless they are fighting. I have 25 bonded pairs so I do have a little bit of experience. You could keep 2 rabbits next to one another for years and when you put them together they would fight as when they are in separate cages nothing is being proved and if you let just 1 out it will cause aggression between them if the free one can approach the other's cage.

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I understand… I am just worried, you know…it is the male's territory, and he is much bigger than the female… I am afraid he would hurt her…and since it is the living room, I am also afraid that in the haste and all the motion they would run under something, or be hid something, and I wouldn't be able to reach them in the case of an aggressive situation...

A lot of males aren't very territorial, some are but it's usually the girls who are the territorial ones. Boys usually just want to mate with the female. Breeders usually put the female into the male's hutch as they know he won't attack her, he just wants to mate with her. They would never put the boy in with the girl. She could seriously injure him. He doesn't know he is neutered so acts like an entire buck but after a few days of chasing he seems to forget about it.
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Yeah, didn't quite work... the male kept attacking the little girl...had to separate them... they didn't do the usual gig of looking and sniffing around.... then slowly showing interest.. the male instantly went for her... awful, really..

You're right, you need to stick with neutral until they know each other better. Go back to the office and let them spend time together, it's absolutely fine if she ignores him and they don't interact much - that will come in time. I'd start with some short meetings again, just because of the fight. If that goes okay then just build up the time they spend together - so start in the morning, for example and let them spend the whole day together. You should find they may more progress that way.

A pile of hay is a good bonding activity as eating together is relaxing but hay isn't seen as really exciting treat so they won't fight over it.

Tamsin said:

You're right, you need to stick with neutral until they know each other better. Go back to the office and let them spend time together, it's absolutely fine if she ignores him and they don't interact much - that will come in time. I'd start with some short meetings again, just because of the fight. If that goes okay then just build up the time they spend together - so start in the morning, for example and let them spend the whole day together. You should find they may more progress that way.

A pile of hay is a good bonding activity as eating together is relaxing but hay isn't seen as really exciting treat so they won't fight over it.

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Hi Tamsin,
I think that is the only option we have, so I will definitely try pushing the neutral territory.. I am just a bit worried about the girly being terrified…she is not ignoring him, she is scared.not moving, just watching him, and when he makes a move, she makes a run for it, humming and thumping her feet. Do you think her being afraid will change?

When they've been together for a few days, the female will become more relaxed and confident. Pretty soon she'll be bossing him around!

tonibun said:

When they've been together for a few days, the female will become more relaxed and confident. Pretty soon she'll be bossing him around!

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They have been together quite a few times, and we introduced them 2 weeks ago.

Is the female spayed?

tonibun said:

Is the female spayed?

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Yup, she is.

One option of bonding:

I would choose a weekend when you are able to dedicate 100% to bonding.

I would put them in the smallest space possible - litter tray size with them both sat in it, and just enough room for a bowl of water. (We achieved this by sectioning of an area with large pieces of cardboard). Wear some gloves to give you confidence (oven gloves if necessary!). If a scuffle breaks out, gently lift one or the other and turn it around or plonk it back down. Keep doing this. It can be a very, very long process. My husband has sat all day long in a shed outside doing this! If necessary, you would have to separate at night time. Maybe put them next to each other, but separate. Repeat the process the following day. It can be exhausting! It might take a couple of weekends.

When any progress is seen, enlarge the space but very, very gradually - so gradually they may not even detect it!

When it came to leaving them alone (when I felt fairly confident all would be ok), we set up our telephone on 'child minder' (a feature not often used!) and were able to listen out for any scuffles. Lots of false alarms, but it helped.

I think you have to just go for it. Not separate as such, but lift them apart and distract and keep repeating this. And of course throw in the odd treat too. It's a horrid process, I know :shock:

Personally I wouldn't go that small for a rabbit that is fearful because, if they are backed into a corner, fear can turn to aggression.

I agree though, what you need is time. I think the more time she spends with him, learning he isn't scary the quicker she'll relax more. When I talk about time, I mean consecutively, bonding often going back a few steps each time you split so it takes longer with lots of short meetings. I know it is tougher with a bonding a nervous bun as you have to balance her welfare in too.

What does he do when she backs off? My guess is that with a day together, he'll get less interested in investigating her and she'll start to learn that she can back off if she wants, but will do so less and less because nothing bad happens so she has less reason.

It's a bit like a rabbit nervous of people, you let them back off and relax and eventually they get curious and start to investigate in their own time. It's just tougher because you can't explain to the other bun that he just needs to relax and play hard to get :lol:

Tamsin said:

Personally I wouldn't go that small for a rabbit that is fearful because, if they are backed into a corner, fear can turn to aggression.

I agree though, what you need is time. I think the more time she spends with him, learning he isn't scary the quicker she'll relax more. When I talk about time, I mean consecutively, bonding often going back a few steps each time you split so it takes longer with lots of short meetings. I know it is tougher with a bonding a nervous bun as you have to balance her welfare in too.

What does he do when she backs off? My guess is that with a day together, he'll get less interested in investigating her and she'll start to learn that she can back off if she wants, but will do so less and less because nothing bad happens so she has less reason.

It's a bit like a rabbit nervous of people, you let them back off and relax and eventually they get curious and start to investigate in their own time. It's just tougher because you can't explain to the other bun that he just needs to relax and play hard to get :lol:

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Hmmm... It is really strange, because both of them act differently at home and in a neutral territory.
At home, he is really aggressive, trying to bite her. Here is this short video of how he acts. I know he looks frustrated because she is outside, while he is isn't, but he has the same approach when they are both outside, he just flips his tail up, and is very offensive...
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AldLWdrFBk&list=UUC_X1WJpEe0fu3nUE9D0-cg

The interesting thing is, she is curios of him at home...

And here is the other scenario: She changes her attitude from curious to being terrified, whenever he makes a move, she immediately runs away...even if the bonding session last for 1,5 hours.. And the boy is like a completely different rabbit... he is relaxed, occasionally tries to check her out..and when she is running away, he tries to reach her, but she is much faster..he just looks confused. here is a video of this scenario, in a neutral space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6juMFZV_uA&list=UUC_X1WJpEe0fu3nUE9D0-cg


What do you think?

sharkfur said:

Hmmm... It is really strange, because both of them act differently at home and in a neutral territory.
At home, he is really aggressive, trying to bite her. Here is this short video of how he acts. I know he looks frustrated because she is outside, while he is isn't, but he has the same approach when they are both outside, he just flips his tail up, and is very offensive...
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AldLWdrFBk&list=UUC_X1WJpEe0fu3nUE9D0-cg

The interesting thing is, she is curios of him at home...

And here is the other scenario: She changes her attitude from curious to being terrified, whenever he makes a move, she immediately runs away...even if the bonding session last for 1,5 hours.. And the boy is like a completely different rabbit... he is relaxed, occasionally tries to check her out..and when she is running away, he tries to reach her, but she is much faster..he just looks confused. here is a video of this scenario, in a neutral space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6juMFZV_uA&list=UUC_X1WJpEe0fu3nUE9D0-cg


What do you think?

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I think that is a big space, even taking into account Tamsins comment.

I am not sure I would particularly focus too much on that behaviour as a lot of it will be typical with unbonded rabbits. I have said before in other threads that my rabbits were practically airborne and potentially (I intervened) vicious toward each other. You would never in a million years think they would have bonded

I would reduce the space, take root alongside them and be prepared to supervise for potentially a long day or two

cara said:

I think that is a big space, even taking into account Tamsins comment.

I am not sure I would particularly focus too much on that behaviour as a lot of it will be typical with unbonded rabbits. I have said before in other threads that my rabbits were practically airborne and potentially (I intervened) vicious toward each other. You would never in a million years think they would have bonded

I would reduce the space, take root alongside them and be prepared to supervise for potentially a long day or two

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I haven't lost hope just yet, I know it can take a while It is reassuring to know that other vicious couples were able to work it out…
We did try with about with a space that is third of what you've seen on the video… And the girly tried to escape, but then she managed to the mounting movement to show dominance, and interestingly, she was just as terrified afterwards..even though she just dominated him… puzzling. The problem is, the boy seems to be fine (in neutral space), but when she makes a sudden move, even just scratching herself, or whatever, he instantly nips towards her….