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Weght reduction versus GI stasis

I have a 6- year old neuter female rabbit who has suffered bouts of stasis and slow gut motilily all her life. I recognise the signs and usually get her to the vet quickly and she pulls round in a couple of weeks. She is a cross-breed and weighs 4.2kg. I have been told she is overweight and switched to extruded pellets (20% fibre) last year. She usually eats 3+ handfuls off mixed greens and an egg-cup full of pellets a day, but is not a big hay eater.

At the end of June her gut slowed- small poos strung together with hair as she was moulting heavily. Got Metaclopromide and Baytril for 5 days. Seemed to pick up but then relapsed when the meds were stopped. Given a 10 day course of Metaclopramide but no more Baytril. She went back to eating pellets, but no greenstuff. This is unusal as its usually the other way round, and she loves her greens. Back to the vets to see if she had tooth problems - no sign of that but given Metacam in case she was in pain. Eating habits continued to be unusual - eats pellets, still not really interested in greens -she would eat crunchy stems but not soft leaves.

Vet referred me to a rabbit specialist. 3-rays showed no tooth issues but some athritis and kidney stones. Said this was probably due to her weight and general couch potato behaviour! Recommended that she should go onto permenant Metacam for the arthritis, but wanted to do blood tests to make sure her liver/kidneys could cope. He said until she was eating properly again she could have anything she would eat (e.g. pellets, museli mix - all the bad fattening stuff) but then would need to switch to a grass and hay diet with no pellets. Liver/kidney results were fine so Metacam increased to .75ml twice a day. She came off the Metaclopromide, but still wouldn't eat greens, just pellets.

I've cut out pellets, given lots of hay and greens which she isn't interested in - she will just nibble a couple of sprigs of herbs if I sit and wave it infront of her, and when she gets fed up with that she sits with her face to the wall! But her poos got very small again so currently back on the Metaclopromide and I'm syringe feeding with Recovery (about 1/3rd of recommended daily dose) to keep her tummy ticking over in the hope that she will eat greens when she's hungry.
Is she having me on, in the hope of getting have favorite foods? Is this the right thing to do, or should I just give in and let her have as many pellets as she wants even if this puts more weight on her? Help I'm at the end of my tether!!
 
This is a very difficult thing to advise on. As she is 6 and knows what she likes, doesn't like etc I would be inclined to give all the normal things but in reduced portions. She wont eat hay as she is getting too much of the other food but maybe if you reduce her intake she might look to the hay if she feels hungry enough.

Are you sure the dosage of Metacam is correct as it seems very high but I don't know for sure. I would give my rabbit say .06 He is about 2 k. Perhaps start another thread asking for appropriate dosages for your rabbit.
 
Could she be in pain, maybe from the kidney stones? Has she only had her head x-rayed?

The metacam dose sounds fine :wave:
 
She had three x-rays - one of her head which was fine. The vet said she had good teeth for her age - probably because of the amount of greens she usually eats. She had one x-ray taken from the top, which showed some arthritis in her left hip, and this probably explains her "drunken sailor" gait when she runs. The final x-ray was from the side, this showed up the calcium deposit in one of her kidneys and also some thinning of the bone on her lower spine which the vet said was due to lack of exercise. So now I put her down in the garden as far from her favorite sitting spots as possible and she has to hop to them before she adopts her usual Sphinx like posture! (PS I make sure the Metacam ha had time to work before doing this, and I've noticed she is hoping more evenly on both legs).

They checked out her teeth when she was under the anaesthetic for the x-rays - slightly uneven, but no spikes, so I can't see any physical reason why she won't eat her greens. She is very stubbon though and basically a right little madam, but so lovable with it!

She has always had between 1-1.2ml of Metacam a day when she has the gut motility/stasis problems, so this is a bit more than she's had before.
 
Every time she has had gut motility/stasis problems my usual vet has given her Metacam to help with the pain of gas and bloated tummy. The dosage has always been between 1-1.2ml taken once a day becasue she's a big girl!!. She has the Metacam for dogs, but apparently rabbits are way more tolerant of the drug than dogs which are often given a set number of drops.

The specialist vet said that he wanted the dose divided into two, because in some rabbits the effects only last for 12hours before the drug is excreted and he didn't want her in pain half the day. I did query the quantity with my own vet as it was a bit higher than she had had before, and I wondered if this could be putting her off her food. My vet checked out and confirmed with the specialist that it shouldn't put her off eating. The specialist said I could reduce the dose slightly if I wanted but needed to check that she was hopping evenly (i.e. showing no pain from the arthritic hip) and that the dosage definitely had to be split into two.

With the rest of her food - do you think I should stop the Recovery syringing and go back to the egg cup of pellets , and then just try reducing this over several weeks - am I trying to do things too quickly - the specialist didn't give any guidance on timescales
 
Sorry Weedug, I forgot to say that now she is through the stasis she doesn't flinch if you gently massage her tummy or around her sides, (which I do every morning just to check she feels normal) and she doesn't seem to suffer from other symptoms associated with urinary tract issues (she doesn't drink excessively - though I am trying to encourage more consumption as per specialist instructions - she doesn't have problems peeing and no blood in her urine) so I don't think the kidney stone is bothering her - I guess the Metacam would help with that anyway?

Should I go back to giving her pellets and reduce them more slowly, rather than an abrupt withdrawl? I've also bought some Fibafirst to see if that might make up for not eating hay - most people seem to suggest about 3 sticks per day? any experience with this stuff?
 
I would try giving her pellets and reduce the dose gradually. You could also try a different hay to see if she shows more interest.
 
I think if she were my bun, I would start to reduce the Recovery and introduce pellets giving her a bigger amount. Then very gradually start to reduce the pellets whilst giving her a selection of hay with dried herbs or crushed treats scattered over it in the hope that she will get the hint and start to eat the hay as well.

Perhaps switching her greens as well might help? Does she get wild foods at all like raspberry leaves or apple leaves? Mine always find the wild foods hard to resist.

Sorry that's not much help.
 
Weedug and Susie Bun
Thanks for your suggestions. I wan't sure whether removing the pellets in one go was a good idea - the vet didn't give much guidance. I think I might give them to her at bedtime as usual and gradually reduce the amount. I tried the Fibafirst to try to get some long fibre into her, but she isn't very impressed she'd rather chew her toilet roll middles! At the moment she has the meadow hay from our local farm that they use for their horses - perhaps I might try the timothy hay as lots of people seem to use that. I've tried buying the packets of dried forage, but usually she just looks at me like I'm bonkers expecting her to eat dried up stuff when fresh is available!

On a positive note she did show some more interest in her greens yesterday evening and ate a few bits without me waving them in front of her face - so some progress there, although she didn't eat anything except her cucumber and one scorzenera leaf over night.

Weedug - she always gets a big selection of greens - both cultivated and foraged, because I've got an allotment and a big garden. Usually she has 5-7 different types a day - herbs (thyme, savory, dill, fennel, lemon balm, mint, corriander, parsley), tree shoots (pear, plum, apple, chery, willow, hawthorn), veg leaves (pea haulm, bean leaves, fennel, celeriac, salsify, scorzenera, sorrel, chard, watercress, rocket, jerusalem artichoke and spring greens/kale in winter) , fruit leaves (strawberry, raspberry, grape) and wild food (dandelion, milk thistle, clover, plantain, coltsfoot, grounsel, mallow, chickweed, hogweed, wood avens, salad burnet, yarrow) and vegetable trimmings (carrot peelings, bean trimmings, parsnip peelings, cucumber, celery tops and even the odd cherry tomato). At the moment she's ignoring most and just picking at her favorites - thyme, dill, plum leaves, scorzenera - but not much of those!
 
Whilst she's not eating, I'd give her want she wants even if that is lots of pellets.

Once she's back to normal, you can then work on her diet. As she usually likes greens, I would gradually up those whilst reducing pellets. Have you tried fresh grass as an alternative to hay?
 
This moring I didn't syringe feed, but tried giving her the pellets she went crazy for several days ago - distinct lack of enthusiasm! Yesterdy she ate some greens without me having to hand feed them, but today won't even take hand fed ones. I've been putting her out on the lawn for 5 hours a day (in the shade), but she just thinks its a comfy bed. She does nibble a few plants in the 3 hours supervised free ranging, but just a nibble not a serious munch.

I'll go home to see her at lunchtime and if the pellets haven't gone it will have to be back to syringe feeding with Recovery mix again.
 
Has she had blood tests done? There is surely some underlying reason why she isn't eating :? Sorry, just thinking out loud :oops:.

Hopefully the pellets will be gone by lunchtime and she just didn't want to eat while you could see her.
 
The vet could find no physical reason why she can't eat (teeth, blockages, tumours etc). Yes, she had blood tests when she went to see the specialist - I don't know exactly which tests - I was told it was to check liver and kidney function and also a test for "inflammation" I guess that may have been to see if she had underlying conditions giving an immune response. I was told everything was fine. Perhaps I should get back to him and ask exactly what blood tests and what the results actually were?

Went home at lunchtime, all she had eaten was a 1 inch pice of carrot and 2 slices of cucumber - no pellets. She wouldn't take hand fed greens, and only took about half a dozen hand fed pellets/nuggets (small pieces of SS & Burgess excel). Despairing!! I ground about 20 of the Excel nuggets, mixed it with a little recovery mix and syringe fed again. I don't know what else to do - one day she looks like she's improving, the next she's back down again - this has been going on for a month now - I don't know how long it is realistic to continue, but she seems bright enough in herself - not huddling in a corner, tooth grinding or laying down in funny position.
 
Just a quick update. Spoke with the specialist and he wanted to double the dose of Metacam! I really wan't happy about this as Metacm is a non steroidal anti-inflammatory, and in every other animal - people included it can cause stomach bleeding and further tummy upsets. Some people/animals can take high doses and others react badly.

So I was a "bad" bunny Mum and went with my instincts rathr than the vets advice. She had a 0.65ml dose of Metacam in the morning, but I didn't give her the evening dose - she looked brighter and although she didn't eat - she did nose around the greenstuff. Didn't give her any Metacam the next day and she started eating greens on her own. She's now eating like a horse and I'm gradually introducing lower doses of Metacam just before her outdoor playtime to try to limit the pain from her arthritis when she is moving about more.

Just goes to show that while many bunnies can tolerate high doeses of Metacam for long periods they are all different - just like people. Specialist has suggested Tramadol instead of Metacam, but as this is a synthetic opioid I want to avoid that for as long as possible and reserve it for when the arthritis gets really bad. I don't think I could cope with a spaced out junkie bunny at the moment, and if she doesn't react well to it, it has to be withdrawn slowly (no going cold turkey with that one!).
 
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