Bonding frightened bun & new bun temperament change?

Hi there, sorry for the chunky post!

I have a couple of questions regarding bonding, but also behaviour. I have heard so many different opinions on bonding buns – so much I'm a bit lost and getting very stressed. I will also be bonding the buns outside now. 1 have a male eight year old dwarf lop named Thumper. His much loved companion, my baby Honey, recently died. He seemed perfectly fine with just my company enjoying our herby treats and grooming, but I thought it was time for him to have some proper bun company and adopted a young female dwarf lop named Poppet. She was neutered by the rescue centre and declared fit to come home with me, which she did last week.

While at the rescue they noticed how incredibly tame she seemed – in fact it was hopping up to a couple of strangers in a park that saved her. She loved her cuddles and her strokes. When I got her home, she seemed to immediately take a 'dislike' to me, as if I'd done something unforgivable – flicking her feet as she turns away, refusing treats, sometimes nipping/biting me, grooming with her back fully to me. I figured, ok shes been through a lot just let her be and get used to my presence without touching or reaching out to her/fiddling with her environment in her presence etc. But it continued. As I had to bond her with Thumper myself (which I had done with Honey and Thump) I figured putting her in that kind of situation, being the 'referee', is not really going to help her trust me. They were already in two parts of their large aviary style run, split down the middle so they can smell/see each other. But I figured I'd call back the rescue to see if they would bond them for me, but this would be way to stressful. They couldn't understand poppet’s temperament change, but thought perhaps it was just too much change for her so to just ignore her completely for a few days for her to get her bearings. Which I'm doing but it doesn't seem to have made a difference. I've come to terms that winning her trust is a very long term thing now, but I'd hate to think it was something I've done so wrong to have broken her sweet temperament. Any thoughts on this would be wonderful, thank you.

Anyway, its been a week of them living side by side, the rescue said its best not to leave it too much longer before I start the bonding process. Yesterday I took them up to the bathroom to see how things go. Thumper was so terrified because I brought him to the bathroom in the carrier, by himself (he hates being in the carrier but hates being picked up even more than that – hence moving him in the carrier) he was breathing so hard, shaking a little at first and hardly moving. Then he practically flung himself on me, which he does at the vets, as if saying 'save me!' and stuck near me pretty much the whole 20 minutes. There was no fighting and poppet spent the most part exploring the bathroom. There was one little attempt to groom thumper (nipping the fur a little – not the skin) but thumper was frozen. She put her head down many times for him to groom (which I know is trying to assert dominance) and thumper ignored this which is fine, but he just seemed frozen rather than making a choice not to groom. I'm thinking it might be better to make a space outside their run that thumper can just hop into for their next meeting? Hopefully he wont be as terrified as I'm really worried it will be a case of him suddenly exploding with fury. At least Poppet felt comfortable enough to flop and groom herself in Thumps presence. If anyone could give me any insights into how to help Poppet settle in, despite all the changes and stress associated with bonding (and given that she will still have all those post neutered hormones) and advice on how to help ease the bonding process for Thumper – you have no idea how grateful I would be! Thank you x

How long ago was she spayed? You need to wait at least 6 weeks after spaying before trying to bond them.

First off, she will probably take months to settle in properly and get used to you. It is a very stressful thing for a bun to be moved away from where he/she knows and then encounter all sorts of new smells and sights and sounds etc. Don't worry about her temperament for now, you want to get the bond out of the way first. You can start on gaining her trust once she has settled into a new routine etc.

Personally, I'd do the bond inside so you can keep an eye on them 24/7. Some people choose the "dating" method, but I have always believed that this can cause more problems than needed because it is unnatural for them. Of course it really does depend on the rabbits involved so I would try putting them together full time and splitting them if you feel they need a break from each other. I did this with Fiver and Xena, mainly because Fiver constantly humped Xena so for their both their own good, I split them on a night.

You really need to use a small pen to bond them in. The smaller the better really (within reason obv!). I would also avoid putting ANYTHING but a bowl of water and some hay in the pen with them. The small space forces them to interact and sort out their hierarchy. The fact that Poppy has flopped and attempted to groom Thumper is an excellent sign. They would need to stay in this pen for at least a week (longer if poss) and they will need constant supervision. Obviously this is quite a commitment and not everybody is in a position to watch a pair of buns for a week straight, in which case you could rig up a partition in the pen so that they cannot hurt each other but can still see and smell each other.

Thank for your reply. She was only spayed two weeks ago - which worried me too. I thought this was a bit too soon, but the rescue centre seemed amendment that bonding should happen sooner rather than later. What do you think I should do in terms of their living arrangements now - given that she is so recently spayed? Your advice would be much appreciated. I'm really not happy about the run being split in half, I dont think there is enough running space for either of them for a longer term. It's a 14ft by 5ft aviary/walk-in run attached to a 5x3ft shed. So at the moment its split into two 5x7ft sections although Thump has the shed as well (alway open into the run) but Poppet has some of her space taken up by a small cage. Again, im not happy about the size of cage either. Do you think it would be too stressful to remove Poppet from the run entirely into a brand new larger cage for the next month? They wouldn't be able to see each other though, that's the downside. I guess as she is newly neutered its way too early to talk about bonding, but would stopping the process now be detrimental in anyway to the success in a month or so when she is ready? Sorry for the barrage of questions!

In terms of bonding, there is a room where I kept Honey and Thump during Honey's illness. Thumper pretty much detests it, but it could be turned into a space for bonding. The only problem is that it is south facing so turns into a complete hot house during the summer. Its barely habitable for me, even now with the slightly warm weather! There isn't really anywhere else to keep them for a week. I've heard about neutralising, using vinegar and water spray to neutralise the existing space. Would that work do you think, on the outside run? Thanks so much x

Honeylovesthumper said:

Thank for your reply. She was only spayed two weeks ago - which worried me too. I thought this was a bit too soon, but the rescue centre seemed amendment that bonding should happen sooner rather than later. What do you think I should do in terms of their living arrangements now - given that she is so recently spayed? Your advice would be much appreciated. I'm really not happy about the run being split in half, I dont think there is enough running space for either of them for a longer term. It's a 14ft by 5ft aviary/walk-in run attached to a 5x3ft shed. So at the moment its split into two 5x7ft sections although Thump has the shed as well (alway open into the run) but Poppet has some of her space taken up by a small cage. Again, im not happy about the size of cage either. Do you think it would be too stressful to remove Poppet from the run entirely into a brand new larger cage for the next month? They wouldn't be able to see each other though, that's the downside. I guess as she is newly neutered its way too early to talk about bonding, but would stopping the process now be detrimental in anyway to the success in a month or so when she is ready? Sorry for the barrage of questions!

In terms of bonding, there is a room where I kept Honey and Thump during Honey's illness. Thumper pretty much detests it, but it could be turned into a space for bonding. The only problem is that it is south facing so turns into a complete hot house during the summer. Its barely habitable for me, even now with the slightly warm weather! There isn't really anywhere else to keep them for a week. I've heard about neutralising, using vinegar and water spray to neutralise the existing space. Would that work do you think, on the outside run? Thanks so much x

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Don't worry about asking lots of questions. We are here to help.

I don't think stopping the bonding process will cause any problems right now. It would be better to wait and avoid any hormonal behaviour from her that could seriously affect the bond. I'm not sure why the rescue want to rush into bonding her. Many people actually wait at least a week after getting a new bun so that they have time to settle in and calm down before the stress of bonding. :? Bonding a hormonal bun will most definitely end in disaster, so their advice is not very reliable.

I would say that the 5x7ft space she has now would be fine for her in the short term. You could move her if you wanted, this may actually benefit her as the aggression and "moodiness" could be because she can smell and see Thumper. She may see him as an intruder into her territory and so put her on edge. You could also use this time to try and bond with her to make things a bit easier when bonding her with Thumper. Do you want some tips on gaining a bunny's trust?

Personally, I keep buns completely separate until they are going to be bonded. However, I did let Shadowfax see Fiver and Xena a few days before the bond, mainly to gauge how Fiver and Xena would react to each other and make sure there would be no referred aggression between them. For a pair, I would keep them completely separate, though.

Vinegar and water will work. I think white vinegar is best, but I just used household vinegar and that seemed to work just as well. I bonded mine in the conservatory, which was boiling, but I closed the blinds and kept the door open for them so they had a breeze and it wasn't too bad. I also put a big sheet over their pen so they were in the shade. Is there any way you can do this? I know how warm a room can get when it's south facing, so don't worry if you think it's going to be too warm for them. Perhaps you could bond them in the living room or bedroom? I think people neutralise carpet by spraying vinegar over it..I'm not sure if this is a good idea, though...I think the carpet would stink of vinegar for a while!

Oooh yes, any tips for gaining trust would be very welcome thank you.

You know, it had crossed my mind that it might be Thumper's scent that was causing the issues. I have been spending a LOT of time with Thumper since Honey passed sitting down in the run with him, getting licks and giving him cuddles so am no doubt covered in Thumper smell! So I think you are right, it might be worth investing in a separate combi/hutch for Poppet. It's not ideal, but for 4 weeks it will provide a little more room as the hutch will be on top and not taking up her playing space. Then she can settle in before all systems are go for bonding.

The room I have in mind is an old extension from the garage, with large patio doors which would mean they would need to be open to the floor but I might be able to block the bottom off so they can't escape. But because of the roof the warm air just gets trapped in there and it turns into an oven, even with the curtains closed. I do have one of those large indoor cages for when we have stasis episodes/sickness and I need to keep an eye on them over night. It might be fine for the initial stages of bonding but it may be a bit difficult to split up fights and I wouldn't want to leave them in there for a week. Thumper is, well, a bit of a pee-er! He loves any soft surface he can get his bum on. As an outdoor bun, he's tidy and clean but apparently indoors is simply one giant litter box! We also have a dog in the rest of the house and the bedrooms are very small, too small for a couple of bunnies. The downstairs room has a laminate floor that can be newspapered - it such a shame, the room would be perfect if it wasn't so hot at the moment! I wonder if thermal fabric would make a difference, or even a big fan. How do rabbits feel about fans, I know they are sensitive to draughts?

Ok she's getting more and more territorial. Shes been digging dirt from the centre of her section and flicking it through the wire at me. She's been doing a LOT of digging anyway, which was fine because the run is set on cemented paving stones, covered in wire then cemented again. So I let her carry on. She started nibbling at one of the legs of the smaller hutch in order to get round the back and dig (as if trying to get out). I thought ok, she's bored, she really needs more space (kept an eye on it as I was worried about splinters) but now she's actually gnawing and pulling away at the fence boards to get out! I'm going to have to cover them in 1cm holed mesh to stop the gnawing - I keep a roll of it around - but I think she's really going to take exception to me being in there to do it. Plus, although the outside posts of the run are sunk into concrete I am worred she will start chewing through those next. Not only will it mean she could come to harm/escape. It would compromise the safety of the run (we have very confident foxes about) and replacing a concrete sunken post would be a nightmare.

Thumper also still seems terrified and is staying well away from 'her' section. I guess the longer she is there, the more likely she will really associate that end of the run as her territory despite any neutralising? The soil is deep there and I'm worried anything I do/turf I put on top will still have her sent on and the wood will have her chew marks. I'm seriously debating forking out for a http://www.homeandroost.co.uk/produ...ra-large-hutch-and-run-combination-6ft-hutch/ and put wire on the bottom covered with turf - even if it's just for the next 6 weeks until her hormones calm down, but I am wondering whether her inner escape artist was the reason she became a stray. I really don't know what to do for the best, honey was always cheeky and loved outwitting me but I've not experienced this level before even prior to honey or thumper being spayed/neutered. I feel very over my head (i'm also long term ill) and don't want to make any wrong moves with her as poppet's and thumper's well being are at heart. I don't know what to do

Ok. Take a deep breath.

The small cage you are on about for the garage extension is something that the buns will have to be in for the week. Don't worry about it being too small, they need to be in a small space for as long as possible. Some people use large dog crates or small puppy pens. I bonded my trio in a 3ftx3ft pen, and they stayed in there for about 5 days before I gave them more room. Tbh, I gave them more room too soon and it caused a few problems, but that's by the by.

As for Poppet...she sounds to be frustrated. Perhaps she has come to associate male rabbit with being harassed or something. It's difficult to say. I would definitely split them completely for now, even if it's just so they don't start associating each other with stress. I do have a lot of experience of rabbits who just like to destroy things and escape from things. Try not to worry, she is probably just feeling quite stressed with the move and everything and is "taking it out" by digging and chewing. It also sounds territorial as you mentioned, so it might be a good idea to take her out of her accommodation when trying to bond with her. However, I do think that it's best to bond with them whilst they are somewhere they feel safe and comfortable. I find the best thing to gain a bun's trust is to sit with them, feeding them bits of hay. Some buns won't accept anything from you at first, and if this is the case then just sitting with her and offering her bits whenever she comes up to you. The main thing is to never try to pick her up. You are best to try and stroke her whilst she is eating, stroking only her nose and maybe her ears if she likes that. See how she does with this first of all, just sitting quietly with her (without trying to touch her) will definitely help her get used to you. It might be best to start this once she is in her new accommodation, though.

That hutch would probably be ok temporarily. It really does depend on how much you want to spend. I am not the best person to advise on outdoor accommodation since my three live indoors. :lol:

Honestly Vegan_bunny thank you so much for your reply. I was totally hyperventilating today but have now chilled out! I need to remember how much change has happened to her poor little body and mind and stop putting so much pressure on her. I went ahead and bought that cage, I figure its a good investment for her to be in for at least 4 weeks before bonding with Thumper and can be taken apart and stored or given to a rescue etc. It's not ideal, but I know that she will be in the big run and shed in a month. It was a big investment but honestly, I'd rather everyone/bun was in a stress free place. I'm glad the indoor cage will be ok, it feels really cruel but at least its only a week then they will be in love I feel better already now that I've done something proactive.

I will definitely take your advice re gaining trust - should I tempt her into the carrier to take her to a neutral space for us to bond (rather than pick her up)?

I'm hoping the territorial stuff will lesson with her hormone levels but is there any advice you could give me regarding transferring her to her new accommodation. that might lessen this behaviour?

It's lovely to have some sage advice and comforting to know you are not on your own, that you can come on this forum and find help and support.

I'm glad you are feeling better. Remember also that our buns will pick up on our emotions and react accordingly. If you are feeling stressed, this can be transferred to the buns. So always remember to be as calm and relaxed as possible around Poppet, she will certainly benefit from calming vibes.

As for transferring her into her her new accommodation, I'm not sure there is much you can do to stop her being territorial over it. I have a bun who will have your hand off for going near his litter tray. :lol: I simply avoid going near him when he's in there. He trusts me completely, but a bun always need their own space where us humans are not allowed. Many buns are territorial over their own accommodation, but to help stop them becoming too aggressive over their whole enclosure (and so preventing you from cleaning or anything else whilst they are in there) I would spend as much time with her either in or next to her hutch/run. Avoid putting your hands out to her because this can actually be seen as an intrusion, just let her come and sniff you. Feed her some treats...I usually prefer to feed forage because it is healthy and very tasty. If you can't fit in the run with her (not sure how accessible her new accommodation will be) then you can always feed her some forage through the bars. She will get used to your smell and your presence whilst associating that with something good. :thumb:

It's a long, long process. It took nearly a year for me to gain Xena's trust. She used to charge out and bite my ankles whenever I walked past her...she drew blood on more than one occasion but she is such a sweet and loving bunny now.