weaning bisc off profibre pellets u/d p37

even though they have helped him alot in the past, and even though they are classed as one of the loves of his life... i think they're starting to become too rich for his sensitive tummy now. gulp! so, we have been reducing them gradually and so far so good. but he is still getting a bit dirty underneath so we have to either cut them down even more, or stop them completely. :shock:

i'm hoping to get some hay pellets from galens garden to mix in with them so he feels like he is still getting something. he will know, but i think it needs to be done.

the other option is to put him back onto normal pellets. he used to be on the oxbow ones.

any advice? :wave:

reducing them is going well. bisc begs alot still, but he accepts it when we don't get them. he never used to :lol:

the thing that has become obvious straight away, is that it was the pellets that were causing his dark urine :shock: i was sure he had some kind of infection but nothing showed on tests. i know orange/rusty coloured urine can be normal, but it wasn't bisc's normal colour. so now it's back to what it was with a sometimes very slight orange tint to it. so that's interesting.

i'm keeping a close eye on his weight aswell because i don't want him to drop too low but he's back to his idea weight now. :thumb:

on wednesday i am ordering some things from galens garden. some hay pellets to mix with the profibre so he feels like he's still getting something. :lol: and some bramble aswell for his tummy. really think that will help him. :thumb:

he's staying alot cleaner now aswell. :thumb:

biscandmatt1 said:

reducing them is going well. bisc begs alot still, but he accepts it when we don't get them. he never used to :lol:

the thing that has become obvious straight away, is that it was the pellets that were causing his dark urine :shock: i was sure he had some kind of infection but nothing showed on tests. i know orange/rusty coloured urine can be normal, but it wasn't bisc's normal colour. so now it's back to what it was with a sometimes very slight orange tint to it. so that's interesting.

i'm keeping a close eye on his weight aswell because i don't want him to drop too low but he's back to his idea weight now. :thumb:

on wednesday i am ordering some things from galens garden. some hay pellets to mix with the profibre so he feels like he's still getting something. :lol: and some bramble aswell for his tummy. really think that will help him. :thumb:

he's staying alot cleaner now aswell. :thumb:

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Oh, glad it's going okay. That's interesting about the urine colour!

scatter said:

Oh, glad it's going okay. That's interesting about the urine colour!

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i never thought but could it be because of the dandelion flavouring in them? :shock: that would make sense.

can't wait to order from galens garden. love buying them things. :thumb:

biscandmatt1 said:

i never thought but could it be because of the dandelion flavouring in them? :shock: that would make sense.

can't wait to order from galens garden. love buying them things. :thumb:

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Oh me too - I get ever so excited:lol:

i'm pleased to hear things are going well.......!!

Is he not getting any pellets now? If not, I'd recommend giving VetCare Digestive a go. Part of Supreme's vet brand. Super high fibre and lots of ingredients to help tums. They are also very light as they are so full of hay, so for the same level of nutrients the volume that he will eat will be much bigger, which will be good if he can't handle much in the way of high-nutrient foods/pellets.

scatter said:

Oh me too - I get ever so excited:lol:

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:thumb: the thing with galens garden though, is that the cheapest postage option in now £8! so to make it worth it, i will have to buy more than i originally planned. :lol:

Fee said:

i'm pleased to hear things are going well.......!!

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thank you. x

nessar said:

Is he not getting any pellets now? If not, I'd recommend giving VetCare Digestive a go. Part of Supreme's vet brand. Super high fibre and lots of ingredients to help tums. They are also very light as they are so full of hay, so for the same level of nutrients the volume that he will eat will be much bigger, which will be good if he can't handle much in the way of high-nutrient foods/pellets.

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he is getting the profibre still, but alot less. i'm torn on whether to just keep him on them, just a smaller amount, or whether to change to something else now, or even whether to mix them with something else. not really sure. he loves them so much though so i can't imagine him being best pleased with having none :shock: think he'd move out :lol:

i think for now i will monitor how he gets on, and if he stays clean and a stable weight on less, then i might just stick with those. if not, i'll have to see what else he could have instead. he doesn't get much in terms of fresh food, as he can't tolerate it, so i think he might need pellets of some kind.

biscandmatt1 said:

he is getting the profibre still, but alot less. i'm torn on whether to just keep him on them, just a smaller amount, or whether to change to something else now, or even whether to mix them with something else. not really sure. he loves them so much though so i can't imagine him being best pleased with having none :shock: think he'd move out :lol:

i think for now i will monitor how he gets on, and if he stays clean and a stable weight on less, then i might just stick with those. if not, i'll have to see what else he could have instead. he doesn't get much in terms of fresh food, as he can't tolerate it, so i think he might need pellets of some kind.

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If he can't tolerate veg, and with him having chronic snuffles, I would look at him having something like the VetCare digestive or some other digestive-friendly pellet, even if only a small amount. The thing is, Profibre pellets are not a pellet replacement, not at all, they are designed to supplemt the diet. They don't have any of the vitamins and minerals needed. Being a snuffles bun, it is even more important that he gets the right nutrition to support his immune system. His body will also use more calories trying to fight the infection.

nessar said:

If he can't tolerate veg, and with him having chronic snuffles, I would look at him having something like the VetCare digestive or some other digestive-friendly pellet, even if only a small amount. The thing is, Profibre pellets are not a pellet replacement, not at all, they are designed to supplemt the diet. They don't have any of the vitamins and minerals needed. Being a snuffles bun, it is even more important that he gets the right nutrition to support his immune system. His body will also use more calories trying to fight the infection.

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thanks for the info. i like the look of the vetcare digestive ones. i was also considering the fibafirst aswell, or the oxbow like he used to have. not sure which to go for now :?

matt was the chronic snuffle bun. bisc does have snuffles, but has been very stable for a long time now. he has scar tissue damage in his nose though, but apart from that, he's really stable. :thumb:

i think that because our vet is a no pellets needed kind of vet, it made sense at the time to just give the profibre. bisc was very ill at the time and they really helped him get well again. i suppose we ended up just staying with them all this time because of how well he did on them. then when matt went, i think i overdid feeding them really, because he loved them so much and i wanted him to be as happy as possible :roll:

the fresh food he has is just coriander and thyme now. he's a brilliant hay eater, and he has grass when it's dry.

i think now he's nearly 8, it might be time to switch things again, just to make sure he is getting extra nutrition. i think once he is more stable generally, then he may beable to have some new fresh foods. nothing veg wise, but maybe some more herbs??

if you have anymore thoughts then let me know. help me decide what to do!! :lol: x

just wanted to update this as it's been a while now.

bisc has been doing well on less profibre. he is alot cleaner underneath. nearly completely clean now so they must have been alot to do with it. he is on two half teaspoons now, one half in the morning and one half at bedtime. inbetween when he begs, he has a couple of the timothy hay 'pellets' from galens garden. they're quite big and take him longer to eat, plus they are just hay and nothing else so they've been really brilliant as he still feels like he is getting a treat, especially after metacam when he expects a reward :lol:

i have decided to put him back on oxbow pellets again. he had these for years before the profibre and after considering a few options, i feel like these ones would be the best for him. i've ordered them now so when they arrive, he will be having one of the half teaspoons of profibre replaced with the oxbow and we will do that for a while to make sure his tummy copes, and then see where we are at then.

we're keeping an eye on his weight and he has lost 80g since starting. he is still within his safe weight range though, but we are keeping a close eye on him and weighing him regularly just to make sure he's ok and so we know whether to adjust things.

my aim is to stop the profibre completely and just feed the oxbow and timothy hay 'pellets' from galens garden. bisc may have other ideas though, but i really don't think he needs the profibre ones anymore.

eta: in terms of the brambles.... he refused to even try them! :roll:

That good news

I used to get Fibafirst for my buns but they weren't that keen on them. I also got the vetcare urinary and digestive - which looked exactly like fibafirst sticks. The urinary ones smelt of cranberry and I was tempted to try them myself :lol:

You do get absolutely loads in a box! I did find that 2 of my buns would munch a couple over night when they run out of anything else that interested them.

Hope Bisc is still doing really well with his diet x

This is an interesting thread. My crew are on Oxbow T but also get a very few Profibre in with their supper of dried herbs. I have maybe been giving them more Profibre of late and have noticed a lot more orange/red wee. One or more of the threesome is also producing some malformed caecotrophs. Nothing in their diet has changed so it is hard to pinpoint the cause of this - could it be the Profibre????? Or maybe a stress factor as they are a relatively new bonded threesome????

I will have a look at the Vetcare and also Galens garden. Four out of the five buns are now 7+ old so I did have a look at the Oxbow supplements. However as I still haven't cleared the 2013 vet's bills I cannot afford these for four buns at the moment

I have been considering swapping the Oxbow pellets to a 'mature pellet' but am not keen on the alfalfa in these having had problems with this in the past.

Why is nothing straightforward with bunnies.

My buns all get mucky bum from pellets now and yet since Mimzy was a snuffly bun to begin with I continued to try to keep him on them originally because he tolerated them a lot longer than the other two. Eventually he also succumbed to cecal dysbiosis episodes due to pellets.

However, and here's the odd thing, he's on a month long baytril regimen and is asking for pellets again and they are causing no distress. I can't suss it. He's not getting many and it's one of those Oxbow treat mixes with chamomile in, but he had pellets all through his head tilt recovery that first year with no issues. I'm guessing the baytril is countering the dysbiosis in some way.

One thing that would gripe me when Mimzy first came to us was I'd send OH for pellets and he'd come back with guinea pig ones. :roll: I spoke to my vet and she said the only difference was extra vitamin c in these and they would be okay to feed him especially since he was immune compromised. Not certain how correct that is but I thought it might be relevant to Bisc's situation when you mentioned snuffles. I wouldn't feed him anything like that though without checking with your own vet as mine has been off the mark before.

Rabcat said:

That good news

I used to get Fibafirst for my buns but they weren't that keen on them. I also got the vetcare urinary and digestive - which looked exactly like fibafirst sticks. The urinary ones smelt of cranberry and I was tempted to try them myself :lol:

You do get absolutely loads in a box! I did find that 2 of my buns would munch a couple over night when they run out of anything else that interested them.

Hope Bisc is still doing really well with his diet x

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i was nervous of trying new ones. i know he was fine on oxbow for years so felt safer going back to them. he also refuses to try alot of new things so probably would have turned his nose up at them! :lol:

he's still doing really well. feel bad now that he was dirty because of the profibre. i just didn't expect that because of how well they used to suit him.

x

Vanessa.B said:

This is an interesting thread. My crew are on Oxbow T but also get a very few Profibre in with their supper of dried herbs. I have maybe been giving them more Profibre of late and have noticed a lot more orange/red wee. One or more of the threesome is also producing some malformed caecotrophs. Nothing in their diet has changed so it is hard to pinpoint the cause of this - could it be the Profibre????? Or maybe a stress factor as they are a relatively new bonded threesome????

I will have a look at the Vetcare and also Galens garden. Four out of the five buns are now 7+ old so I did have a look at the Oxbow supplements. However as I still haven't cleared the 2013 vet's bills I cannot afford these for four buns at the moment

I have been considering swapping the Oxbow pellets to a 'mature pellet' but am not keen on the alfalfa in these having had problems with this in the past.

Why is nothing straightforward with bunnies.

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i do think it could be the profibre definitely. they suited bisc so well for a long time, but then as his tummy seemed to rebalance, the profibre seemed to become too rich for him. and the darker urine definitely could be caused by them. the difference in the colour of bisc's wee just stood out straight away.

it could be the stress of being newly bonded aswell. or a combination of both maybe.

bisc is nearly eight now but i will be sticking with the oxbow basics adult and not changing to a mature pellet. :wave:

MimzMum said:

My buns all get mucky bum from pellets now and yet since Mimzy was a snuffly bun to begin with I continued to try to keep him on them originally because he tolerated them a lot longer than the other two. Eventually he also succumbed to cecal dysbiosis episodes due to pellets.

However, and here's the odd thing, he's on a month long baytril regimen and is asking for pellets again and they are causing no distress. I can't suss it. He's not getting many and it's one of those Oxbow treat mixes with chamomile in, but he had pellets all through his head tilt recovery that first year with no issues. I'm guessing the baytril is countering the dysbiosis in some way.

One thing that would gripe me when Mimzy first came to us was I'd send OH for pellets and he'd come back with guinea pig ones. :roll: I spoke to my vet and she said the only difference was extra vitamin c in these and they would be okay to feed him especially since he was immune compromised. Not certain how correct that is but I thought it might be relevant to Bisc's situation when you mentioned snuffles. I wouldn't feed him anything like that though without checking with your own vet as mine has been off the mark before.

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bisc used to get a mucky bum quite alot but i've noticed lately that he seems to have a 'stronger' tummy. i'm not sure why but reducing the profibre certainly seem to have helped. he has fresh herbs morning and evening now, whereas before he just had the evening ones. we also had to feed only one fresh food a day but now we can do a different one morning and evening and he's fine. he was even having dodgy poops after even a slight increase in grass and now he is fine with that aswell as dandelions.

i just wish i'd thought sooner that the profibre might not be suiting him anymore :roll:

that is strange about the baytril :shock:

i'll ask the vet about the guinea pig pellets next time we go. i'm always interested in his opinion on everything. i joke with him that i can come on here and say it has been marked as 'approved by aidan' :lol: :thumb:

bisc still snores bless him but he hasn't needed to be nebulised in ages now. he's even seeming more stable snuffles wise aswell. he isn't a sneezy snuffle bun, except when it's very cold, but he's not needed any extra snuffles help at all really. :thumb:

o/h and i actually think he's in better health and condition at the moment than he was when younger. he's just really bright and happy. very springy aswell lately. i bet he's so much happier being cleaner underneath. he doesn't like dirt of any kind. :lol: he doesn't even like water on his chin when having a drink. :lol:

he's just doing really well lately. and if i can keep control of his pesky sore hock then even better.

i am nervous about introducing the oxbow pellets back though. they arrived today so we're starting tonight and replacing one half teaspoon of profibre with them so fingers crossed his tum copes. we'll do this for another few weeks and then hopefully increase again and stop the profibre! :shock: this may be when he decides to move out of home! :shock::lol:

Would be interested in your opinion, well Biscuit's really on the Oxbow. I bought 10 or so bags about 18 months, maybe 2 years ago as they were a ridiculously low price online. These have just run out and I have started on a new bag bought recently. None of the five, particularly Gabe and Spring are anywhere near as enthusiastic about them. I give them their pellets first thing - sometimes Gabe and Spring's are still there at teatime.

Vanessa.B said:

Would be interested in your opinion, well Biscuit's really on the Oxbow. I bought 10 or so bags about 18 months, maybe 2 years ago as they were a ridiculously low price online. These have just run out and I have started on a new bag bought recently. None of the five, particularly Gabe and Spring are anywhere near as enthusiastic about them. I give them their pellets first thing - sometimes Gabe and Spring's are still there at teatime.

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i'll let you know what he thinks of them later :wave: