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bonding question

biscandmatt1

Wise Old Thumper
when rescues require the rabbits to live side by side first - is this in the original rabbits area?

i am still doing research so we know what happens if we go ahead with getting bisc a new friend but the two rescues near us that i contacted do things like this:

rescue 1 - you bring the new rabbit home. they live next to bisc for at least two weeks before swapping bedding. they have play dates in the neutral area and then go back to their own cages. the play date times are increased until they can live together in the same area.

rescue 2 - either bisc goes to them for about a week for bonding and then i bring them home and into neutral area first. or, we take bisc in for them to supervise the initial date. if this goes well, they travel home in separate carriers, and then live side by side and have the play dates same as above.

would it not be stressful for bisc to suddenly have his space halved and another rabbit in the room? i understand that they want the new rabbit to settle first but this surely isn't best for the owners original rabbit is it? i don't know though how these things work. :?

our issue is space. we have one place neutral which is the bedroom. nowhere else. plus, bisc has under control snuffles and also gets dodgy tum easily and we are worried about the stress but want to keep this option open and know what we are doing, if we decide it is what he needs and we need to get sorted asap.
 
i have emailed rescue 2 again to ask what they think about us having to divide bisc's space to start with, and whether they think this would cause any issues or not.

they said they have a waiting list for bonding but that's ok as bisc is happy and doing well, so we can take our time getting all the info we can for if we decide to go ahead.

if anyone has any advice, let me know. thanks :)
 
Would you trust another person to bond your rabbit ?
Why if your worried about stressing your first rabbit would you want another rabbit ?
 
Would you trust another person to bond your rabbit ?
Why if your worried about stressing your first rabbit would you want another rabbit ?

it's not that i wouldn't trust them. it's more that because of my situation (mental health so i am always at home) that bisc is so used to me being there 24/7 that i worry that i have not done the best thing and made him too needy in a way. to the point that he would be stressed being away from us. it's not what i intentionally did, but my issues meant that i am a constant in his life and when he had matt, it wasn't such a worry as they had each other, but now obviously matt has gone.

the stress issue is because obviously bonding is known to be stressful but the end result is worth it and they are no longer alone which is the best thing ideally for them. i am just thinking out loud really and going through it all to get more advice and info. and to be honest, because i am nervous about it all and want it all clear in my mind so i can weigh up the options properly and do the right thing by bisc. :wave:

eta: i spent one night away from them in 2006 and never could again. so i'm there basically 24/7 and even sleep in the lounge aswell, so the poor thing never gets a break from me. :oops: i am gradually trying to improve my mh and will hopefully not put another pet in a situation where they worry if i am not there.
 
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the thing is -if we had more space then i would probably try it, as the new rabbit could settle in in one room away from bisc, and then i would still have space to do the bonding in an area neutral to them both. but we don't have that space so i would like to know what other people have done to get some idea of if it is possible.
 
I would not want to allow another person to introduce any of my animals to another animal, I would take the premise that my animal is familiar with me and so my scent is the dominant scent all my animals should be familiar with my scent to recognise it on others if that makes sense (0;
I also would not like another person to decide when to end or continue with a 'bonding' session as they would not know my animal better than me (0;

The idea that you are worried about restricting your first rabbit lead me to ask if a second was a good idea...unfortunately I might be unpopular but I do think all animals need boundaries and for me if I had to ask if my rabbit was going to be bothered I would question if I should have a second, I also know the bigger the space the more territorial a rabbit becomes tho I have never had neutered ones one would assume this is mitigated by lack of hormones so for me having two rabbits would work like this rabbit a and rabbit b next to each other in hutches/ crates 24/7 for a week both animals smell of me introductions under supervision 7 days then see how it went used to do this with chinchillas years ago to pair them up!
 
I would not want to allow another person to introduce any of my animals to another animal, I would take the premise that my animal is familiar with me and so my scent is the dominant scent all my animals should be familiar with my scent to recognise it on others if that makes sense (0;
I also would not like another person to decide when to end or continue with a 'bonding' session as they would not know my animal better than me (0;

The idea that you are worried about restricting your first rabbit lead me to ask if a second was a good idea...unfortunately I might be unpopular but I do think all animals need boundaries and for me if I had to ask if my rabbit was going to be bothered I would question if I should have a second, I also know the bigger the space the more territorial a rabbit becomes tho I have never had neutered ones one would assume this is mitigated by lack of hormones so for me having two rabbits would work like this rabbit a and rabbit b next to each other in hutches/ crates 24/7 for a week both animals smell of me introductions under supervision 7 days then see how it went used to do this with chinchillas years ago to pair them up!

alot of people do send their rabbits for bonding elsewhere and it works well. but i think for bisc personally it wouldn't be the best idea. i agree that i know him best and would know what he was feeling better than anyone. i don't mind the thought of him going for that initial 'date' as i think it's better to have some idea of if they will get on or not. i know you can never be sure but going through the slow bonding and then having to start again with a different rabbit wouldn't be great for anyone.

i guess i am a worrier so i do worry about how bisc would be. but it's the thought of him having a friend that makes me consider it a possibility to try as it does seem bad him being alone after being bonded for so long. luckily he is ok and happy for now so we don't have to rush, but i know generally they are happier when not alone.

so really my question is - would you move a new rabbit into bisc's area to live side by side until they were moved to the neutral area? or would he maybe see that as a new rabbit in his space, even though they would be separated by a fence? this is my main worry at the moment really. stupid small house :evil: :lol:

:wave:
 
How big is Bisc's area, the space that you would halve?

I've done dating bonding, but not had them living side-by-side. I had Barney in my bedroom as normal and then the new rabbit (Annabella) just in the hallway temporarily, and then I bonded in my housemate's bedroom.

Barney has snuffles so I took things slow (dating method with a slow start) and took my cues from him about when to progress - thankfully it went perfectly smoothly and was pretty stress-free for him. I understand your concern about having her in his area - if he has the whole lounge I don't think the space is an issue, but having her in what is his territory may be stressful for him, he may feel territorial. When Barney meets rabbits at the edges of their territory or in his territory, he chins and sometimes poos all around their cages. On the other hand, he does get used to it.
 
it's hard to explain, but he has the run of the lounge, but one side is all his things, and the other side is our settee then tv and little drawers opposite that. so to make her an area would mean eating into his main area, where he has his trays, water, tunnels etc, and where two of his favourite places to sleep are. i think halving that area, which is about 5.5 x 4 c+c grids, would upset him. obviously this area is open so he has the rest of the room aswell, but that is basically just down the centre of the room as we then have our things on either wall. so his main area is the only place to section.

we thought of moving the settee out and making her pen the size of the settee. then she is in the room but on a floor space that bisc doesn't regularly go (only when we move it to clean behind ;)) - but then would that be them living side by side if he is able to go away from her, because he might choose to stay away in his main area then. :roll:

i can't really think of any other way which isn't awkward really.

i had hoped that we could either bring a girl home, or take bisc to choose, and then bring them home and straight into the neutral area in the bedroom. it seems that these rescues want the new rabbit to settle in first before bonding. but if i took bisc to them for bonding, i doubt they would wait a week or two for him to settle before the bonding :? i know they have to do what they think is best for their rabbit. but what is best for them, isn't necessarily what is best for bisc, and vice versa. :?

alternatively i could ask other rescues and see if any allow us to bring them home and straight into the neutral area. i personally don't like the idea of 'dates' and the separating again, and building up the time that way. i always thought it was better to keep them together once the bonding had started. :?

o/h says not to think about it unless we decide to go ahead, but i like to have things ready and sorted in my head just incase. he also thinks bisc is fine on his own, and although not ideal, that he is happy and has constant company.

the other thing is that we have wanted to move to somewhere bigger for ages, and o/h thinks we should wait until we do and if that doesn't happen, that bisc is ok anyway. but i don't know now if i want to move from the house that bisc has always known. i don't know if that in itself would be too stressful.

bisc is close to us but he is also an independent bun aswell and does sometimes like his own space so if we did want to stop the cycle of rabbits then o/h thinks we probably won't get a better option than bisc, as he is secure in himself. we also have the issue of him being a snuffle bun, and a tummy bun which means he will have a different diet to the new rabbit.

it's just so many things to think about, and i am stressy about getting things right.

o/h thinks it's ok aslong as bisc doesn't appear sad and lonely, but i do feel guilty that he will spend the rest of his life without rabbit company. but like i say, he seems ok with that. :? it's like with him, he would be fine either way, whereas if bisc had gone first, we know that matt would have become very down and sad because he craves other rabbit company. bisc isn't really like that to be honest.

argh, so complicated. :roll::roll::roll: i think way too much aswell don't i? :oops:
 
the other thing that wise old other half said was that if i truly believed bisc wasn't happy now and needed a new friend, that he would have one by now. which i guess is true.

i know it can't happen, but i just want matt back. i wish he could have stayed longer. :cry: he should be here. with bisc, and with us. :cry:
 
I don't think halving his area would upset him, as he has the whole room, but I do think it would be a good idea to de-clutter (remove most toys etc and maybe move furniture a bit if that makes more space). If he needs more space he can always jump on the sofa. He'll soon find new places to sleep. But I do think that it has the potential to stress him out, not because of space but because you will be putting a strange rabbit in his territory.

Personally, I think that a slow approach, meaning swapping bedding and litter trays etc for a while, wiping each other's scent on them and then starting to date and using them as markers of how long to keep it (stopping when either seems stressed) would be less stressful than the 'put them together and see what happens' method. I also think that a larger area for bonding with neutral objects and scattered food for distraction would be less stressful than the forced bonding method which means they can't get away from each other. That is just my opinion and personal experience, but I think the forced bonding method can be quite stressful and isn't always suitable for bunnies that can get ill when stressed. If a larger area is used, it will take longer, and then once you have built up the time in the large area to 24 hours a day and you think they are ready to move onto the next stage, you can then put them in a smaller area for a day or two to force them to interact more. For what it is worth, if you do decide to use my method, I would also not keep her in his room between dates, as I would not want them meeting on non-neutral territory at all, at first.

I'm sure if you speak to the rescue, they will let you choose the method of bonding. They will understand that you have a special bun that needs things tailoring to his needs. I think it is important that, as long as you follow the basic rules of neutrality, that you don't follow any bonding method to the letter and instead adjust it as you feel he needs, in order to reduce stress for him.

Only you know if he is happy. Many single buns seem happy, they're often not outwardly sad, but that doesn't mean that they aren't lonely. When Barney was a single indoor bun, he expressed his loneliness as intense friendliness. He was very needy, couldn't spend half an hour of awake-time without coming to ask for a stroke. When I walked in the door, he'd come bounding over; when I left the room he'd stand at the top of the stairs watching me. He'd follow me around when I walked around the room. All of this was very sweet behaviour, but it showed that he was actually very lonely, as he was attempting to replace his need for rabbit company with me, which is really quite sad. He was also becoming reliant on me, and I don't think that is healthy - if I had to go away I wanted him to not be lonely or sad, so he needed a friend.

On the other hand, I have decided that I don't really want rabbits anymore after these two, so if Annabella did die (which is highly unlikely) I would probably not get Barney another friend unless he seemed depressed/ very lonely. The reason for this is that he is ill with gut problems and snuffles, both are incurable and he is living on borrowed time, he may get another 1-2 years if he is lucky. Annabella is only 3 so I'd get her another friend.

It is all down to your circumstances and how you feel he is feeling, noone can make the decision for you.
 
thanks for your reply.

the rescue have sent me some more info on bonding and have suggested that we would put the new rabbit in the lounge but after neutralising it first. they would live side by side, swapping things and then when settled we would beable to use the bedroom for neutral space.

they've been so helpful but did say the only thing i need to be aware of is that because bisc is a snuffles bun, and although he is stable, that the stress of bonding could potentially make him have a flare up.

at least i know now how we would go ahead so that's something. it's now upto us to decide what to do.
 
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