Nena's jaw/tooth root abscess

My Jigsaw may have the same issue as Nena, we're off to see Frances Harcourt-Brown for a referral appointment he will stay overnight and have any operations / treatment on Wednesday.

I've read your old post and some of it sounds like what Jigsaw is going through now, hopefully tomorrow I will have better info on what's going on with him

P.S - Hope Nena's treatment goes well

Just read this, adding my vibes and really hoping today goes well for Nena xxx

Hope Nena gets on ok today and hope the aftercare isn't too bad for either Nena or you xx

Thanks everyone

Not long had a call from Marie the vet - Nena's coming round from the operation okay although she's in the very early stages of waking up. Should be picking her up later this evening, although they might push it back until tomorrow if she's struggling a bit later.

She's coming home with metacam twice a day, plus tramadol for a few days, plus we need to continue with her antibiotics which all sounds great to me

The operation took quite a bit longer than the vet thought it would, as the abscess was found to be really quite large inside her mouth which we didn't expect. She also said the tooth/tooth root was really firmly wedged in and it took a long time to get it out as it's so delicate. There was quite a lot of bone damage due to the abscess(es) but she's managed to remove everything well.

The aftercare will entail me flushing her wound 2+ times a day (not sure what with yet); and then putting manuka honey in. I'm not to remove any dead skin/scabs with tweezers, as if Nena jumps and bashes her jaw on the tweezers the jaw could easily break as it's really quite fragile right now due to how much she's had to remove. That's a bit of a relief as that was the more scary bit tbh! I need to bring her in Friday to have some local anaesthetic to give it a good scrub out if necessary.

Marie took x-rays of the other side of Nena's mouth and found that she has the same kind of problem on the other side. There's no abscess yet, but she says it's quite likely it'll happen on the other side too so I need to be vigilant with checking her weight every week or two. She said it was good that I'd noticed this abscess so soon, as it was relatively small compared to the last one. She said her teeth all look pretty good - no spurs, etc. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is with her back teeth (I'll find out more later as I'll see the x-rays) but it's not her diet that's causing molar spurs etc, which is great. She may need the odd dental for the upper molars now as the bottom ones have gone, but obviously that's a side effect of the operation rather than diet related. So it's good in one way as she's not definitely going to have dental problems, but it also does mean she's likely to have another abscess on the other side.

I must remember to ask the vet later whether I should remove their wooden castle thing from their shed for a while. Sometimes N or T get too excited and accidentally miss when they go to jump up, and smack their head :roll: It only happens once every few months and they're always fine after, but I'm worried that if Nena does it anytime soon she'll snap her jaw - and I know jaw breaks can be hard to notice at home, especially if she's already sore all around her jaw/mouth anyway...

Sending loads of healing vibes to Nena. xxxxxxxxxxx

Poor Nena, sounds horrible but at least its gone and the tooth. Hope her recovery is quick. Send her a lovely little nose rub from me. xxx

yaretzi said:

Thanks everyone

Not long had a call from Marie the vet - Nena's coming round from the operation okay although she's in the very early stages of waking up. Should be picking her up later this evening, although they might push it back until tomorrow if she's struggling a bit later.

She's coming home with metacam twice a day, plus tramadol for a few days, plus we need to continue with her antibiotics which all sounds great to me

The operation took quite a bit longer than the vet thought it would, as the abscess was found to be really quite large inside her mouth which we didn't expect. She also said the tooth/tooth root was really firmly wedged in and it took a long time to get it out as it's so delicate. There was quite a lot of bone damage due to the abscess(es) but she's managed to remove everything well.

The aftercare will entail me flushing her wound 2+ times a day (not sure what with yet); and then putting manuka honey in. I'm not to remove any dead skin/scabs with tweezers, as if Nena jumps and bashes her jaw on the tweezers the jaw could easily break as it's really quite fragile right now due to how much she's had to remove. That's a bit of a relief as that was the more scary bit tbh! I need to bring her in Friday to have some local anaesthetic to give it a good scrub out if necessary.

Marie took x-rays of the other side of Nena's mouth and found that she has the same kind of problem on the other side. There's no abscess yet, but she says it's quite likely it'll happen on the other side too so I need to be vigilant with checking her weight every week or two. She said it was good that I'd noticed this abscess so soon, as it was relatively small compared to the last one. She said her teeth all look pretty good - no spurs, etc. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is with her back teeth (I'll find out more later as I'll see the x-rays) but it's not her diet that's causing molar spurs etc, which is great. She may need the odd dental for the upper molars now as the bottom ones have gone, but obviously that's a side effect of the operation rather than diet related. So it's good in one way as she's not definitely going to have dental problems, but it also does mean she's likely to have another abscess on the other side.

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Glad she got through it okay, sorry to hear there's chance of it happening at the other side too. Erin had the same treatment in April last year and she's needed a tiny spur taken of the opposite tooth twice at four month intervals so far, so not bad at all. The second one was conscious, in the consultation as it's quite near the front of her mouth so fortunately just needed a little knock.

Argh

We were due to pick Nena up at 5.50 unless we heard from them, so I set off at 4.50. Got a call at 5 saying Nena had knocked a blood clot free and had bled quite a lot. They'd stopped the bleeding but weren't happy for her to come home tonight in case it happened again which I 100% agree with. She'd also bled quite a lot on the table. So since we were already on the way we went to see her anyway.

She was so floppy and limp Bless her, she's totally doped up. I had a snuggle with her in my arms for the first time in 5 years! She has eaten today - hay, carrot, pellets, etc... but she looks so poorly to me! I know she's fine as she'll be monitored through the night but I feel so terrible for her since she's usually a cheeky bundle of naughty.

Took a few pics... the hole is actually bigger than this, it just looks smaller since she's all scrunched up.



The vet took some x-rays beforehand showing the extent of the bone loss in her jaw...

This is her right side, which hasn't had an abscess:



And this is the left side, where the abscess was:



Look behind the furthest back lower molar, if you're not sure what you're looking at! On the right side there's an area where you can't see much bone, that's just a normal depression in the skull - but on the left, there's a much larger area where it's totally missing basically. This is before her surgery so there's even more missing now. Her jaw is very fragile now, bless her. You can also see all her elongated tooth roots on both sides.

I'm due to pick her up before midday tomorrow. It's definitely twice a day I need to flush the wound and add honey. Dreading it, as I know she'll hate it. Might confine them both to the shed for a few days or even a week... they're barely going out atm anyway, and I don't want Nena's wound to touch the side of the runaround tubes or get knocked somehow. I'll ask the vet tomorrow.

Thanks for your vibes and well wishes everyone

Bunny Buddy said:

Glad she got through it okay, sorry to hear there's chance of it happening at the other side too. Erin had the same treatment in April last year and she's needed a tiny spur taken of the opposite tooth twice at four month intervals so far, so not bad at all. The second one was conscious, in the consultation as it's quite near the front of her mouth so fortunately just needed a little knock.

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Oh that's great news, every 4 months isn't too bad even if she does need it under anaesthetic. Has Erin had any re-occurances of the abscess or any further problems? I'm off to find your old threads and have a nosey I think I remember reading about it at the time but I have a terrible memory.

Sending lots of recovery vibes for Nena.

yaretzi said:

Thanks for your vibes and well wishes everyone



Oh that's great news, every 4 months isn't too bad even if she does need it under anaesthetic. Has Erin had any re-occurances of the abscess or any further problems? I'm off to find your old threads and have a nosey I think I remember reading about it at the time but I have a terrible memory.

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No re-occurrence *touch wood* she was last seen at the beginning of January. I was told at the time that the prognosis was good for it staying away. As I'm not at all hands-on (useless) she was kept in for quite a few days for the hole to be cleaned as they knew I wouldn't be up to it. I really don't envy you that task.

Just had a phone call from the vet where she is, and she's been grooming herself and acting normal. They think she's eating normally too, although it's hard to tell as she's back with Tapla now. They're going to ring in the morning with an update

Bunny Buddy said:

No re-occurrence *touch wood* she was last seen at the beginning of January. I was told at the time that the prognosis was good for it staying away. As I'm not at all hands-on (useless) she was kept in for quite a few days for the hole to be cleaned as they knew I wouldn't be up to it. I really don't envy you that task.

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I wish I could admit her for the entire healing process, it breaks my heart to see her like this! But I'll manage, and she'll be better off at home Plus it'd cost millions to have her admitted for 5-6 weeks :lol:

Poor Nena Sending many healing vibes for her and hugs for you. I would be a wreck! None of my bunnies are great with handling (Mimzy used to be) so I couldn't imagine having that much aftercare to do without quite a lot of stress.

So, since she has the beginnings of an abscess on the other side, how are any future dentals achieved without risking the jaw breaking? Will the bone grow back at all? I really know very little about this condition, just what I've seen other bunnies go through by reading the forum.
I'm so glad you have such a good vet on the case, I wouldn't feel confident that even my favorite girl here could manage this level of care. She does well, but the one vet dentist/specialist we used to have moved to the states and I dearly miss her because she had the most awesome surgery and her skill was unparalleled. Sadly she'll still be too far away when we get down there in the fall.

I hope Nena does well when she comes home. It must be such a worry for you. xxxx

What a wee brave soul you have there. The hole looks huge!

I really do hope she recovers well. Good luck with the cleaning regime, it really is a time consuming task and Manuka can be messy, but it really is natures miracle cure

Give her extra cuddles from me, Herbie n Hollie when you get her home xx

Aaw poor Nena, good luck with her recovery, she's a very brave bunny

Poor little Nena, looks awful but hopefully she is now on the road to recovery.

Poor Nena! Hopscotch says she can join the face hole club!

I'm just waiting to pick Nena up

helennnnnn said:

Poor Nena! Hopscotch says she can join the face hole club!

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Nena says she'd happily trade her place in the exclusive holey face club for her normal face back! I think Tapla might feel a bit left out now though..

So Nena and Tapla are home! Nena is pretty happy - eating fine etc. She's begging for food and bouncing around happily. She's a bit flinchy if Tapla goes near her face or comes anywhere near that side, so she keeps running off. I've removed anything hard from the shed (carrier, wooden castle thing) just in case. She only has cardboard and her litter trays in the shed now. I'll give her some extra food when I clean her up twice a day as Tapla eats too fast. Not sure of her weight right now but I'll check later and monitor it, I'd like her to put on the 200g or so that she's lost. Got a post-op checkup on Friday.

The flushes/cleaning and medications all look tremendously easy compared to her last abscess. All they want me to do is put some saline and F10 into the wound 2-3 times a day, and put a little honey on the outside of the wound. No cleaning inside as the jaw bone is too delicate, no scrubbing/tweezing etc, and no inserting honey deeply. No packing the wound either, just very hands off compared to what I thought I might have to do. The wound is so large that it'll remain open without me having to poke it open. Nena sits nicely when the vet does a bunny burrito, but I'm not sure if she'll be quite as co-operative at home! Here's hoping she's happy with it. She has medication twice a day (tramadol & metacam twice a day, and azithromycin once a day) but that's much easier than last time too.

Had a ridiculously busy day. Got them a new bale of hay so I had to get rid of the other one, also cleaned them out and reorganised the utility room to accommodate all her stuff!

Tried to get some new pics today but they're not very good, but it kinda shows the scale of the wound. Again, not all is visible but as you can see it's most of her cheek.