Rudy is no longer anaemic

I hope the lab are able to shed a bit more light on things and that Rudy will be OK xx

Jack's-Jane said:

I hope the lab are able to shed a bit more light on things and that Rudy will be OK xx

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Thanks. The lab thought that the urea readings wouldn't be an indication of kidney problems, rest of discussion went over my head but the result could be a blip given x, y and z, so not strong evidence regarding kidneys. So 'internal bleeding' seems the most likely, *if* it's gastric ulcer it could heal, he's getting Zantac. He's being reviewed in a couple of weeks. Meantime I just walked through the room he's in and he was out for the count whilst the other two were racing around begging for treats and Rudy just slept through it

Rudy's follow up appointment

On Thursday, Rudy was tested for anaemia and his red cell count is now really good

The best fit for diagnosis (by no means certain) is that Rudy has had a liver torsion:shock: Despite my previous experience with Izzy this had never occurred to me. It fits with him being anaemic then recovering.... it fits with there being a descernible 'mass' to palpate then 3 days later no mass and also the 'something' on the liver on ultrasound. This possible diagnosis came as a bit of a shock. I've already lost one to liver torsion, I don't know what the odds are of having another bunny suffer one Shocking though the news was, it also means that it's most likely something in the past and not threatening his present and future.

Sadly though, I tried him in a pen next to Tink today and though he was desperate for her company she seemed unsettled by his and at times defensive/aggressive I'm heartbroken for him as on reflecting now he's alone again he seems really depressed, he brightened up no end when communicating with her. I think the way forward is to send them away for re-bonding, I hope they want to go back together again, but there are plenty of alternatives if they don't. It was clear to me today that Rudy wants company, I always thought, with Tinks not being human-orientated, that she would be the most in need of company but she seems to cope better solo than he does.

Rudy continues to be well.

Sadly he and Tinks are still apart and as I have been working continuously I've had no opportunity to alter that.

I found the weight loss difficult to factor in to the otherwise fairly strong evidence that he'd had a liver torsion but it turns out that Eloise and Erin, possibly others too have lost weight over the last few months. Only thing I can put that down to is I swapped them all from Excel to Alpha pellets, partly due to cost (2/3), partly due to I was annoyed with Burgess over some inconsistencies in information and also Alpha pellets don't contain molasses but otherwise the ingredients seemed pretty much identical to Excel. They get very few pellets anyway but I can't come up with any other reason why they've lost weight.:?

I hope I don't start getting paranoid about liver torsions now, it was a very hard thing to lose Izzy to so to have a second rabbit suffer one is a bit :shock:

I don't know how I have missed these updates, but I am glad to hear Rudy is doing better.
Liver torsion...gosh that sounds terrible. I have dealt with gastric torsion and dilatation in dogs but have never heard of this condition in rabbits. There is no chance it will recur? I can imagine the news must have been a shock.
I'm sorry to hear the bunnies are having trouble reintegrating though. Sending prayers and vibes that they will learn to enjoy one another's company again.
((((((((Huge hugs)))))) to you. xxxx

MimzMum said:

I don't know how I have missed these updates, but I am glad to hear Rudy is doing better.
Liver torsion...gosh that sounds terrible. I have dealt with gastric torsion and dilatation in dogs but have never heard of this condition in rabbits. There is no chance it will recur? I can imagine the news must have been a shock.
I'm sorry to hear the bunnies are having trouble reintegrating though. Sending prayers and vibes that they will learn to enjoy one another's company again.
((((((((Huge hugs)))))) to you. xxxx

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Thank you so much for your reply.

There is a chance that the torsion could happen again but there is nothing that points towards it being a strong chance. It is a fairly rare condition in rabbits but it was talked about at the RWAF conference three or four years ago so it's flagged up there for vets to look out for if the symptoms fit the possibility. Apparently it's often fatal but it's to hard to diagnose so it's often too late when it's obvious what is going on.

I still have hope that the bunnies will rebond, the reason they are still apart has been more down to my circumstances rather than the degree of friction between them, I just hope my working 7 days a week for the last few weeks hasn't come at a bad time for them regarding rebonding.

I tried Tink and Rudy in adjacent pens today, with fine dividing mesh so that they could socialise but not get to each other. She was defensive and ready for the attack much of the time and several times tried to attack him through the mesh. He was mostly just trying to be pleasant to her. It ended with them both trying to fight each other How can it be like this when they've been extremely happy for 5 years?? I've always trusted them together 100%.

Just because of space issues they are now where they can't even see each other. I really don't know where to go from here

Oh dear I'm sorry to see this.
I would be at a loss as well. I know that a lot of bunnies separated by illness often don't rebond. It happened with Pip and Mimzy...although at least they will sit in separate pens next to each other passively.
I wish I had something to help. I'll keep sending vibes for Rudy and Tink that a breakthrough ensues and they can be together again. xxxx

MimzMum said:

Oh dear I'm sorry to see this.
I would be at a loss as well. I know that a lot of bunnies separated by illness often don't rebond. It happened with Pip and Mimzy...although at least they will sit in separate pens next to each other passively.
I wish I had something to help. I'll keep sending vibes for Rudy and Tink that a breakthrough ensues and they can be together again. xxxx

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Thanks again for your post, I would have been talking to myself for the last couple of weeks without your support

They seem reasonably happy alone, in the short term. I wonder if Tink was being territorial over their pen which I split to put him next to her - his half had been empty for a few weeks before I tried the second time so I didn't think she would count it as hers - I honestly didn't think she would anyway after 5 years together :?

Because of space issues I've now got Rudy in half the big pen and Gracie (14 month old doe) in other half - they are both very amicable. Tinks is at the other side of the room and not at all aggressive/defensive with Dinky (female) from whom she is only about 10" away - I would have expected her to be less comfortable in Dinky's company than Rudy's but maybe there's some 'history' that I didn't witness and she's bearing a grude:? Anyhow, all happy and settled for the time being but I haven't got a long term plan yet.

I just thought I would update this for anyone researching liver torsions and their presentation etc.

**POST-MORTEM DISCUSSION**

Rudy's PM this week shows that he did indeed survive a liver torsion in August 2013:

"One liver lobe was missing, which fits with my provisional diagnosis of a liver lobe torsion in 2013. I think the lobe must have atrophied. We found something that could have been the remnants."


Quite scary that I watched him overnight instead of rushing him to the vets when it could actually have been fatal. How amazing that he survived it

Bunny Buddy said:

I just thought I would update this for anyone researching liver torsions and their presentation etc.

**POST-MORTEM DISCUSSION**

Rudy's PM this week shows that he did indeed survive a liver torsion in August 2013:

"One liver lobe was missing, which fits with my provisional diagnosis of a liver lobe torsion in 2013. I think the lobe must have atrophied. We found something that could have been the remnants."


Quite scary that I watched him overnight instead of rushing him to the vets when it could actually have been fatal. How amazing that he survived it

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Indeed. Another good 4 years to enjoy his happy life

brave wee soldier. I always imagined liver torsion was a very gloomy prognosis with medical treatment.

It is amazing how some bunnies manage to survive illnesses that woud take others quickly, and not just of their own species. Rabbits will always surprise me with their will to live and thrive even when the odds are against them.

Rudy was a special lad...no question there.