Muesli based diets - new research

halfpenny said:

Actually, I'm surprised such a small number was used, I get what your saying about rabbit being seen as less important, but at the same time they are cheaper and more easily kept for studies compared to dogs and cats.

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True, I hadn't looked at it that way round :thumb:

nessar said:

I agree there should have been a pellet-only group. However, how about if we ignore the existence of the muesli only group for a moment? The study still indicates (okay doesn't prove but still indicates) that health problems are more likely to occur in a rabbit eating 60g of muesli with unlimited hay than a rabbit eating 50g pellets and unlimited hay.

I find the dental problems in particular very interesting and I wonder what the reason is, perhaps as Thumps suggested dental health is linked to the gut health, and therefore a diet lower in fibre (as mueslis are not above 14%) has a negative impact on the digestion (as indicated by the study as well) and then this has a knock-on effect on the teeth - that is just a speculation of course, but there must be a reason for the muesli rabbits to have teeth in worse shape. Or perhaps that extra 10g made all the difference or the shape of the pellets help dental wear. I imagine we'll find out the reason for the difference in portion size, albeit only about a tablespoon, when the study comes out.

Sample size has been a problem in most rabbit studies I have read, I wonder if it is for a reason other than cost, or simply cost :?

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I got the info about caecal bacteria & dental health from Neil Forbes, Principal of the European zoological college.
His main strength is avian medicine & lameness in horses. Apparently laminitis can also be caused by poor gut health. (I was intrigued that bacterial toxins could act in such a localised way to increase small blood vessel proliferation.) However a link with rabbit dental issues still remains unproven.
But yes I think that hay works by improving digestive health.
There's a problem with the fibre in all synthetic feeds too. They rarely stipulate the fibre size which is critical for digestive health. Goodness it's about 5 years since I looked into this. :shock: Much of the fibre in synthetic foods was too small to aid gut motility. I suppose it diluted the concentrated nutrients though.

It's purely anecdotal, but on 2 occasions Thumper managed to improve chronic caecal hypomotility & chronic dysbiosis with blackthorn leaves. He managed to go 6 weeks between dentals rather than his usual 4 weeks. Obviously other factors could explain this - mainly that with improved dysbiosis, general gut motility improved & he could manage to eat & drink more/24 hours. It's one of those things where I would like to see a repeating pattern of 8-9 cases before I even considered throwing the idea out for research.

I couldn't agree with you more about sample size. Whatever the results, they're simply not statistically valid on the basis of sample size = meaningless. This angers me beyond belief. Why do it if you know in advance that the results will be totally invalid?

jwr said:

and one about the idiots who buy them

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well, possibly, couldn't say. mine were from breeders ...:lol: