At the end of my tether! U/D Feeling more positive.

I am very sorry to post yet another "sore hock" thread but I really have tried everything for Fiver!

He has been on a course of antibiotics and metacam but it did nothing for him. I have tried sudocreme but it hasn't touched them and I stopped it because he was getting so stressed. I have completely redone their room so that they have nothing to vet bed and foam mats to sit/stand on. I have not bound his feet because they aren't bad enough to need bandages but at the same time I am worried that this is what I will have to do in order to get them to heal. He would not tolerate this and most likely get very stressed out about it so I'm reluctant to try.

I was told that tea tree cream is very good for them. I asked somebody to get me some but they got the oil instead. I presume I wouldn't be able to use this as some kind of bath for his feet? I am really at the end of my tether, he has suffered from these for nearly a year and I feel so bad that I can do nothing to help!

Can anybody suggest something I haven't done?

Didn't want to read and run mate *hugs* Not sure about tea tree in rabbits but I used it on one of my rats for bumblefoot. I used to add a few drops to warm water and wash over the sore bits using cotton wool and it did seem to help.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...re-s-nothing-else-they-can-do-to-help-Alice-(

I posted on this thread, dunno if it will help but have a read. *hugs* it's a pain in the butt to get on top of but you can do it

VB, do you have bag balm in the UK?
This is what I used on Fiver's hocks. My vet gave me something called HealX I'm supposed to use instead but I find it doesn't work as well as the balm.

I've seen colloidial silver (you have to get the high quality) used to excellent effect on a friend's conti. with long standing sore hocks.
There aren't the adverse probs of silver absorbtion when applied topically.

Had a read through the other thread but nothing on there has really helped in my situation. I have stopped using the cream for a few months now and it's just not getting any better. They are very slowly getting worse and they are quite sore for him What is colloidal silver?

I have the tea tree oil and I'm wondering if using damp cotton wool soaked in diluted oil and dabbed onto his feet might help. I don't want to try it unless I know it's safe and won't cause more damage. His feet are not open or bleeding, just very very red.

thumps_ said:

I've seen colloidial silver (you have to get the high quality) used to excellent effect on a friend's conti. with long standing sore hocks.
There aren't the adverse probs of silver absorbtion when applied topically.

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I haven't tried colloidal silver with bunnies, but I've used it very successfully with much smaller critters (mixed in with aloe vera gel), so I'd definitely recommend giving it a go. You buy it in the health food shop.

Vegan_Bunny said:

Had a read through the other thread but nothing on there has really helped in my situation. I have stopped using the cream for a few months now and it's just not getting any better. They are very slowly getting worse and they are quite sore for him What is colloidal silver?

I have the tea tree oil and I'm wondering if using damp cotton wool soaked in diluted oil and dabbed onto his feet might help. I don't want to try it unless I know it's safe and won't cause more damage. His feet are not open or bleeding, just very very red.

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Colloidial silver is metallic silver (not a silver salt) ionized in water. It acts as a remarkably broad spectrum ABx & is effective against yeasts but doesn't cause resistance.

As you know there aren't any hard cast answers for hock sores.
Please understand, I'm not saying I'm right - it's just a viewpoint. I'm a bit apprehensive of oily preparations cos they flatten the intact fur round the sore, so it can't cushion the sore area, - like a corn plaster.
Oily preparations can also attract bacteria.
So I always look towards non oily products.

Tea is very high in tannins, another very broad spectrum ABx. As children when we grazed our knees/ elbows, our Mums would pour a few drops of boiling water on a "tea bag" let it cool then slap it on the graze. They never got infected. However I'm reluctant to recommend this for hock sores, because tannins harden up the skin. I presume it's sold as an oily preparation to prevent the skin from hardening.

Sudocreme is the big exception, but only if the hock sore is being made worse by urine burn = bad nappy rash.

Thumper got very small very red hock sores (skin intact) when he was ill with tummy ache, hunched up, & not moving around much. The answer for him was pain relief for his tummy so he could stretch out, move around, & take the weight off them. (I say this just to consider mobility as a potential issue)

When it started to improve he got a bit of thick flakey skin over the red area. The vet would gently lift this off. I noticed that new fur growth started at the edges & worked towards the center. Rightly or wrongly this made me believe the theory about the protection afforded by the intact fur.

thumps_ said:

Colloidial silver is metallic silver (not a silver salt) ionized in water. It acts as a remarkably broad spectrum ABx & is effective against yeasts but doesn't cause resistance.

As you know there aren't any hard cast answers for hock sores.
Please understand, I'm not saying I'm right - it's just a viewpoint. I'm a bit apprehensive of oily preparations cos they flatten the intact fur round the sore, so it can't cushion the sore area, - like a corn plaster.
Oily preparations can also attract bacteria.
So I always look towards non oily products.

Tea is very high in tannins, another very broad spectrum ABx. As children when we grazed our knees/ elbows, our Mums would pour a few drops of boiling water on a "tea bag" let it cool then slap it on the graze. They never got infected. However I'm reluctant to recommend this for hock sores, because tannins harden up the skin. I presume it's sold as an oily preparation to prevent the skin from hardening.

Sudocreme is the big exception, but only if the hock sore is being made worse by urine burn = bad nappy rash.

Thumper got very small very red hock sores (skin intact) when he was ill with tummy ache, hunched up, & not moving around much. The answer for him was pain relief for his tummy so he could stretch out, move around, & take the weight off them. (I say this just to consider mobility as a potential issue)

When it started to improve he got a bit of thick flakey skin over the red area. The vet would gently lift this off. I noticed that new fur growth started at the edges & worked towards the center. Rightly or wrongly this made me believe the theory about the protection afforded by the intact fur.

Click to expand...

Thank you. That is very helpful
I know mobility isn't an issue BUT I do think that is what caused it in the first place. When I lost Ellie, Fiver took it bad, he went into repeated stasis, which caused him to need a dental and he refused to move about. He would just sit in one place, never flop out. I believe some of the problem is the opposite of this, he is so active that I don't believe he gives his feet time to heal. At the moment, on his worst foot, he has some yellowy scabbing, almost like dried skin. I have left it because touching his feet makes him flinch; he had these before and the vet picked them off and it was just the same red underneath

Would you say the silver mixture would be the best thing to try?

Vegan_Bunny said:

Thank you. That is very helpful
I know mobility isn't an issue BUT I do think that is what caused it in the first place. When I lost Ellie, Fiver took it bad, he went into repeated stasis, which caused him to need a dental and he refused to move about. He would just sit in one place, never flop out. I believe some of the problem is the opposite of this, he is so active that I don't believe he gives his feet time to heal. At the moment, on his worst foot, he has some yellowy scabbing, almost like dried skin. I have left it because touching his feet makes him flinch; he had these before and the vet picked them off and it was just the same red underneath

Would you say the silver mixture would be the best thing to try?

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Yes, that all makes a lot of sense to me too.

I think there are 2 main possibilities here.
The simplest is that he's got a very low grade infection indeed, which is preventing fur regrowth but not actually invading through the skin.
The conti I'm thinking of was rescued from a filthy hutch he couldn't even stretch out in, but even when put to free range on grass, his weight was against them healing. I can only say that colloidial silver eventually did the trick & my friend must have tried virtually everything, including manuka honey. I think it's well worth a try.

As you rightly say, fur regrowth could also be prevented by friction "burns" as he skids round corners.
Fiver wouldn't like it one bit. You can buy felt from the chemist (often used to pad out bunyions) the principal is to cut a hole in the felt exactly the same size & shape as the sore to take their weight off it. I've a strong feeling Jack's Jane has done this in the past. There's quite a technique to shaping & putting dressings on bunny feet as well as holding them. It's sort of remembering that everything comes to light if you bend it backwards!!:lol: If you go down this route, someone like Jane can give you far more practical advice than I can.

In your shoes, I'd go for the simplest things 1st. & give the silver a try.
Good luck & please let us know how you get on.

Right I'll try the silver first then I do not want to have to bandage his feet unless I have no other choice. As you rightly said, he will NOT like it! :roll: I will keep you updated on any progress. Fingers crossed!

Good luck with it all. Can you call a specialist if not to see if they have any solutions or email them the photos and let them know what you've done if they are too far away. My specialist has helped me so much. I have to pick Doughnut up on Sunday from another specialist but I could always ask him if he has any ideas if you want me to.

I wouldn't use tea tree oil. I used it once on an insect bite on the back off my leg, and it burn the skin and made it a whole lot worse - it's too consentrated.

I used sudocream and cotton baby socks when one of my elderly girls started to get sore hocks a few years ago. I've also heard good thing's about aloe vera cream too.

That would be very helpful Cpayne.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Colloidal...auty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item43b7e4e124


Is this the right stuff? :? There seems to be a lot of different types to chose from. It doesn't look like Holland and Barratt do it, or at least they don't do it online. I will ask in-store if they have any but thinking it would be cheaper online. It's expensive stuff but I don't mind paying it if it will work, just need to make sure I get the right one!

Holland and Barrett are useless!

I'd go for this one: http://www.highernature.co.uk/Products/Colloidal-Silver-Spray That's the one I've used in the past, plus it comes in a small size.

Ah, that's a better price! :lol:

Do I spray it directly on his hocks? Is it ok if he licks it?

Vegan_Bunny said:

Ah, that's a better price! :lol:

Do I spray it directly on his hocks? Is it ok if he licks it?

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Yes you put it straight onto the hocks. Yes, it's alright if he licks it. I'd suggest you aim it as much on the sore as possible with as little spillage onto the fur as practicable.
AFAIK There's only been probs with silver in a very few silly humans who've taken large amounts by mouth, every day, for several years & for no very good reason!:roll:.

Believe it or not there've been a few silly humans who heard that carrots were good for their eyesight. They ate well over 1Kgm/day, eventually turned orange, & ultimately gave themselves mild liver damage. :shock:
I consider it perfectly safe for humans to eat carrots, even on a daily basis, in "normal" portions!

It's difficult to get the silver into the water so there's only tiny amounts in colloidal silver but it's also difficult to get it out of the body. The main problem is that the silver is 1st stored in the skin which gradually turns a blue/grey colour all over. If they don't take heed of the warning, & carry on taking colloidial silver, it is eventually stored in the internal organs.
Weight for weight basis, assuming that a rabbit licked off every particle, & if the rabbit only weighed 1kgm the most they'd eat is 1/4 the equivalent of the dose recommended for humans.
On that basis it would take well over 12 years of daily use, before they even started to get skin discolouration if indeed they ever did.
That's safer than any of the orthodox human medicines we use for rabbits.

Please take this light heartedly as it's intended. The info about humans & colloidial silver is easily found on the net, & looks really scary until you realise that the problem isn't the silver, it's silly people. :lol:

ETA It's actually a very ancient form of ABx. used by the Romans.

To add to that, I think the silly people also made the silver themselves, so didn't necessarily have the right particle size.

:lol: Brilliant. That makes me feel a lot better! It'll probably be safer for him to lick that off than the sudocreme! :thumb:

I've PMed you.