Doughnut's progress #688 - 6 months on :)

Doughnut's progress - # 817 unwell

[video]http://vid1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj579/Doughnutpic/video-2013-06-08-11-57-32_zpsd29d351e.mp4[/video]

She's making an awful noise again if you put the sound on high you can hear them. She is constantly putting her throat over things, for about an hour while making the noise. Is this normal as the specialist after many tests can't find anything wrong. She seems to start behaving like this in the evening.

cpayne said:

[video]http://s1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj579/Doughnutpic/?action=view&current=video-2012-12-15-20-46-58.mp4[/video]


[video]http://s1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj579/Doughnutpic/?action=view&current=video-2012-12-15-20-59-31.mp4[/video]

She's making an awful noise again if you put the sound on high you can hear them. She is constantly putting her throat over things, for about an hour while making the noise. Is this normal as the specialist after many tests can't find anything wrong. She seems to start behaving like this in the evening.

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:shock:

Definitely not normal. The second video in particular. It looks almost like a neurological issue. The picture is hard to see as it's so dark. She seemed to be 'chinning' the crate, but what else was she doing as she moved her head to the right then made the noise ?

Also, when she raises her front feet off the ground and sort of thrusts her head forward is her mouth open ?

She just keeps chinning it. I really don't know what to do. She's fine this morning again, it seems to happen mostly at night. Still making those noises.

They had her in for 2 night and said she was fine. Do you think I should go and see the specialist tomorrow with the videos to show her? It's getting ridiculous now, been going on 8 weeks, paid out a fortune and they say she's normal! She's also had a bit of diarrhea again last night. It seems it's when this happens. She's eating normally though.

Sorry I don't know if her mouth is open. What do you think it could be? She had antibiotics for coccodiosis for 3 weeks and a weeks of pancur.

Has she had an abdominal xray and/or ultrasound ?

No they all came back fine. Everything was xrayed, she was observed for 2 days up until 8pm-8am and the specialist said she was fine. They did her teeth a bit but that was it!

Two days back and she's like this again. Just going to keep her on hay for the next few days since she was loose again last night. Have you seen this behaviour before?

Sorry Doughnut is unwell again. Sending vibes. xx

cpayne said:

No they all came back fine. Everything was xrayed, she was observed for 2 days up until 8pm-8am and the specialist said she was fine. They did her teeth a bit but that was it!

Two days back and she's like this again. Just going to keep her on hay for the next few days since she was loose again last night. Have you seen this behaviour before?

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Not in one of my Rabbits

When she was at the Vets was she on any medication- I am thinking of Metoclopromide in particular ?

Also, you say she only does it in the evening. What time of day have you been feeding her pellets ?

It's started a few weeks after coming back from the bunnery. She was given an injection of that after she had finished her septrin as i took her back. The specialist then put her on ranitidine for a few weeks and for a few days cisapride.

I am wondering if it is the pellets. Not feeding her any today. It's a few hours after. Do you think it could be them. She is on ss. Was changing her over slowly to the vet care ones but this is more recently. When it started she was just on ss

cpayne said:

It's started a few weeks after coming back from the anyonebunnery. She was given an injection of that after she had finished her septrin as i took her back. The specialist then put her on ranitidine for a few weeks and for a few days cisapride.

I am wondering if it is the pellets. Not feeding her any today. It's a few hours after. Do you think it could be them. She is on ss. Was changing her over slowly to the vet care ones but this is more recently. When it started she was just on ss

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I am wondering if her stomach is not emptying properly and when overful it presses on her diaphragm making the diaphragm go into spasm-ie the chokey sounds and strange actions. Rabbits cant vomit, but she may feel that sort of 'wretch' that would occur if they could

The reason I asked about Xrays/Ultrasounds is that a mass (possibly imapacted food, maybe something else) is partially obstructing the outlet from her stomach. The reason I asked about time of pellets is that it would tie in with the 'over full stomach pressing on diaphragm and causing diaphragmatic spasms' theory. If she was having gut motility meds at the Vets that *might* be why she did not exhibit the behaviour.

I am not saying that this is the problem, but it might be worth discussing it with the Vet.

It would be interesting to see whether having her on a pellet free diet and gut motility meds for a week meant the odd symptoms resolved :?

She isn't on any medicine now as given a clean bill of health. It does sound like she wants to vomit to me.

The xray didn't show up anything.

Will ask the specialist to look at the video tomorrow if she is in. What do you think is the best way forward as think you are right. Not sure why she was ok when they watched her. Do you think she is in pain. She's still eating normally.

Thanks so much for your comments.

cpayne said:

She isn't on any medicine now as given a clean bill of health. It does sound like she wants to vomit to me.

The xray didn't show up anything.

Will ask the specialist to look at the video tomorrow if she is in. What do you think is the best way forward as think you are right. Not sure why she was ok when they watched her. Do you think she is in pain. She's still eating normally.

Thanks so much for your comments.

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She may not be in actual pain, but *if* my theory is in some way correct she may feel 'uncomfortable' when her stomach gets really full and the 'gagging' feeling happens. Sort of like if we eat too much and feel full and uncomfortable.

I would put the theory to the Vet and see what they say. From the video there is no disputing the fact that there is a problem and as I said before it may not have happened at the Vets as she was on meds to make things pass through her more quickly. So the over fullness and subsequent diaphragmatic spasms never got a chance to happen.

Jack's-Jane said:

She may not be in actual pain, but *if* my theory is in some way correct she may feel 'uncomfortable' when her stomach gets really full and the 'gagging' feeling happens. Sort of like if we eat too much and feel full and uncomfortable.

I would put the theory to the Vet and see what they say. From the video there is no disputing the fact that there is a problem and as I said before it may not have happened at the Vets as she was on meds to make things pass through her more quickly. So the over fullness and subsequent diaphragmatic spasms never got a chance to happen.

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Thanks my mind is a bit more at rest that she will be able to see there is a problem.

I only got her back on Thursday and had had no medicine for two weeks so they saw her medicine free. I give her pellets twice a day half an egg cup. Maybe there i think she had them all the time so probably didn't have a lot at one time so the noises weren't as bad.

Im sure you are correct as always have said i imagine she is having reflux as it looks like she is swallowing something down that has come up and sounds like choking.

Since there seems to be no impact from the xray i wonder what could camper it.

I will let you know what the specialist says. She goes on maternity in a week or so so hopefully we will get it sorted quickly. When she was on ranitidine she seemed to have more diarrhea.

Sorry to hear that Dougnut is poorly again, sending vibes and I hope you can solve the problem soon

Thank you.will see what happens this evening when i don't give her any pellets. She still makes the noises every so often but nothing as bad as the video.

I'm so sorry that Doughnut has relapsed.
This is definately not normal.
I also think she has hiccoughs. They seem very forceful to me, & I'm perplexed that she stretches upwards with them

There are many people on RU with a much wider range of bunny knowledge to me.
I'm wondering whether the vet missed it because they mainly happen in the evening when there are few staff around???
It strikes me that we sometimes use a drug chlorpromazine to treat intractable hiccoughs in humans. Metaclopramide is very closely related to chlorpromazine. It probably stopped hiccoughs in the vets by moving something further down the gut & out, like Jane suggests, which fits with her episode of bloat.
Far less likely, did it suppress the hiccoughs in it's own right?

Jane's suggestion makes by far the most sense, & accounts for the timing. Jane also has an infinately greater knowledge of bunny illness from me.

A couple of thoughts to keep on the shelf of our minds.
Has Doughnut had blood tests - urea & electrolytes done?
Finally an extreemly rare cause of hiccoughs in humans (I don't know about rabbits) is "something" deep in the ear canal.

I'm sorry I'm not sounding reassuring. A quick check of her ears, & blood results is so simple, & would allow us to concentrate on her upper gut & chest.

ETA Did she stop wetting herself when the hiccoughs stopped?

I have no idea why they didn't see it. Is it called hiccough and i guess it's treatable. I guess she never even had a parasite.

She is just eating hay now. The noise is still there but not continual like last night.

I feel there is light at the end of the tunnel. At least i now feel i have a diagnosis and it was free. She does normally stretch her back legs out like she's in pain but goes mad with the chinning when it's really bad.

Sorry forgot to say she is still wet. Hard to tell if it stops but i think it might

cpayne said:

Sorry forgot to say she is still wet. Hard to tell if it stops but i think it might

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AFAIK it's called hiccough. I can't think of a medical term for it.
I ask too many questions. :lol:
Just wondering whether Doughnut is actually incontinent, or whether the hiccoughs are forceful enough to make her bladder leak if it's full enough? (Like some women do if they cough or sneeze even when lying down - it's called stress incontinence)

When bunnies chin, they're marking their territory & basically saying "private keep off".
I guess if she's feeling slightly under the weather = "No visitors thankyou".

Is it the same as hiccups as she eats her food soquickly which is why i am swapping her to the vet care pellets which slow her down.

Im sure the urine leaking is linked with the noise as that's when it started. She is always flicking her back legs in annoyance. I go over and find a puddle.

She still has the noise tonight but not manic or strange behaviour since i didn't give her any pellets. She has stretched her back legs a few times though like she's uncomfortable.

vibes for doughnut.