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Two female rabbits fighting - please comment

silli

New Kit
Hello all you bunny lovers,

I have a question about two female rabbits fighting.

To give you a bit of background, they are c. 2 and 1.5 years old rescue bunnies who I've had for a over a year now. When I got them, Pulla, the dominant one, was fully grown and Hippu was still growing up. Apparently coming originally from the same household, they were already friends together. In my apartment, they live free range in the living froom, with a daily access to the balcony.

Last spring they began fighting. Hippu, who was then a teenager, began challenging Pulla's dominance by "humping" her agressively, to which Pulla responded by chasing Hippu around the house and humping her back. I separated the bunnies in different rooms, and got them spayed. After the operations, which went well, I kept the bunnies separated for another week or so, following the vet's guidance. I bonded them again in my bedroom, which at that point had no smell of either rabbit. They became friends again, and had no problems whatsoever for the whole summer.

Just recently, in the last 4 weeks or so, the bunnies have begun fighting again, every day. A pattern similar to the one before spaying repeats. Hippu is challenging Pulla's leadership, it seems. It often starts from request for grooming: Pulla puts her head down in front of Hippu to order her to groom her, and Hippu licks her a bit, then runs away. This gets Pulla annoyed, and she starts chasing Hippu around the house. Another example: the bunnies have a shared bed and it has a roof. Especially Pulla seems to like to sit there on the roof, as the Queen of the Hill. Sometimes Hippu jumps there, when Pulla's not around. When Pulla sees this, she jumps on the roof and agressively humps Hippu, and occasionally chews a chunk of hair from Hippu's neck.

What could be the reason for this kind of behaviour? Boredom? Challenging dominance? And then, what can I do to make the situation better? Get them to do other things as much as possible? Or is it just normal daily bunny life?

I would appreciate any comments you might have.

Lots of bunny hugs to all,
Silli
 
hmm. i'm sure people will come along who can offer advice. i'll just say 'welcome' and i hope you find help.
 
Well, on a positive note they are both spayed and they sound like they have enough space as well if they are free-range. You said though that they share a bed and I know bunnies rarely like sharing things, so I would buy another bed to start with. Ideally, bunnies seem better bonded with one of each sex. I know there are many bunnies of the same sex bonded and that are very close, but you always run the risk of these flare ups and so I would be reluctant to try same sex bondings myself, and you do seem to have with these two, one of them always trying to get the upper hand. If I were in your situation, I would actually introduce a neutered male to difuse the situation, as I have known many trios of this combination work very well, especially if 2 females have not been getting on. If you don't feel that this is something you can do I personally feel you have no choice but to seperate them and you may have to rehome one and then rebond the other with a male. I know this sounds terrible but I would be too worried about one or both of your bunnies being badly injured, and if you get the chance to look through some of the bigger rescues, you will see many more female bunnies being split up and rehomed because of fighting, then you do males, and sadly this does seem to happen a lot. I'm sure you don't want to loose one of your buns, and so really hope that you are able to introduce a male, and I am sure you will see your 2 females soon getting along how you would like them too.
 
I would look into reducing their space, ie, going back to bonding basics. It sounds like the change in daylight hours is affecting them, it's quite common for them to scuffle in spring due to 'spring fever' ie, breeding season, they can breed all year round but it happens more in summer. I would even possibly take them out for a while and neutralise the room and contents with half white vinegar/water in a spray bottle.
 
I agree with Roger but do the rabbits lie together at all. I had to separate bonded sisters (neutered) for this kind of thing and paired them off with boys. They also lived with a male but that wasn't enough. The male has to be dominant to keep both girls in check and he wasn't. Have you tried shouting at them to reinforce your dominance so to speak. Hope you get it sorted.
 
Thank you all for your helpful comments!

Tonibun, yes the rabbits do lie together, and most of the time spend time next to each other, even grooming peacefully at least a couple of times a day. However, I think there's an increase in these short flare ups and I'm worried that they will begin to get worse like Roger was writing.

Roger, you mentioned buying a new bed is an option. I wanted to ask how do you make sure that the rabbits know their "own" beds? Can I somehow reinforce this? Or will they use both at times anyhow? Or even placing them in different rooms and closing the door overnight? Also, what do you think about litter boxes? Should I have two? Somewhere I've read that they should share one box. And food's another thing: this far I've always given one chunk of vegetables for both to share, which results as Pulla sitting on the food so that Hippu can only take some bits and pieces from underneath. Hippu then eats Pulla's "left overs" (which is plenty). Is it normal?

Elena your vinegar tip sounds fantastic I'll try it, too. Both rabbits are always licking all surfaces in the room, apparently to mark it as their own, and I think trying to remove some of these smells could work.

Like Tonibun was saying, maybe I should somehow show my dominance over the rabbits... How do you do it? The problem here is that I didn't get them when they were babies… Pulla loves being groomed and likes people, but Hippu is very shy and doesn't like being petted that much even though she's slowly getting better. Maybe it's worth mentioning that they never lick me, and I've read is sometimes a sign of not being the boss. Difficult to read a rabbit's mind…

Again, please keep those comments coming, they're really useful!!! :)
 
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Also Roger, thanks for the tip about introducing a male - if nothing else works I'll need to consider this option.
 
Also Roger, thanks for the tip about introducing a male - if nothing else works I'll need to consider this option.

What would happen if they all fall out then? Could you accommodate 3 single buns? And then find friends for them individually?

Perhaps a rescue could help out? A neutral area where neither of them have been and start from scratch. I wouldn't consider another bun unless they were being separated and having their own husbun. A male won't necessarily be the dominant one:? In my male/female pair, it's the female who's boss!

Rabbits won't listen to you so trying to be dominant won't work :lol: Have you tried taking them on a car ride in their carrier? Don't know if that will help but that's what people do when bonding.
 
With regards to the beds, they don't need to have their own beds as such, it is more about there being 2 beds so that they can both have a bed to lie on, and it hopefully stopping one of the fallouts. I do feel that the vinegar idea may be a waste of time, as all that will happen as soon as you have spent ages wiping everything down, is that your buns will go round chinning everywhere to put their own scents back on everything. Please don't shout at your bunnies as you will only scare and upset them, and I think it is unrealistic to expect them to think 'crikey she's the boss, we better get along better' as it won't happen, bunnies really don't think like that, and the more you scare and upset them, the more likely they are to fall out more. Rabbits only seem to think about their own kind with regards who is the boss etc, and let's not forget we are only here to be their slaves and do everything we can to make them happy!! Yes, I forgot to say about male rabbit needing to be a fairly bossy one, as that would work with showing your buns who is boss, and I really do think would help them get along a lot better. Because of the risk of a big fall out and possible serious injury, I really would separate your buns when you are not home with them, so that you at least have peace of mind while you are out, that nothing really bad can happen. With regards the feeding I think you really need to nip this in the bud straight away and feed them separately, or sit with them and have 2 piles and make them stick with their own one, as food is probably the highlight of bunny's day, and that could possibly be causing a lot of bad feeling with the one sitting on it and only leaving left overs for the other. That kind of unacceptable behaviour can be dealt with quietly, and if you allow the one to dominate the other at meal times, I really do think your problems are going to get worse over time. With regards litter trays, I'm sure that just the one is fine. I don't know how much time you have to spend on your buns each day, but this wouldn't take long anyway, and it sounds as though you really do care about them, and put a lot of time into them anyway, but I have had a lot of success with grumpy buns with clicker training them. It provides valuable mental stimulation and gives them something to think about, and I have yet to meet a bunny that doesn't enjoy it, as when you think about it, what bunny wouldn't enjoy some fun things to do, time with their carer, and on top of that, to get treats for it as well. As soon as they have made the connection between the click and the treat (healthy of course) you are on the road to success, and I have found that just as fall-outs were about to occur, a click and a treat provides a distraction to a fight, and it could be about with your 2, just breaking the cycle.
 
Actually, I think if I were you, and especially if you don't really want to bring a male bunny into the equation, who knows, another bed, equall feeding rights, and some mental stimulation with clicker training may be all that you need to sort your 2 out, and in a round about way you will have got them to conform without them even realising it. If you want to try clicking with them, I would have 2 clickers, one for each hand, and decide which bunny is going to work either left or right, which is what I have done with 2 buns before, and then you must stick with that arrangement or you will just confuse them and kind of defeat the object. I am sure when you have got both buns rushing up to you on their appointed side, when you have clicked them and called them, you will be thrilled to bits with your 2 beautifully behaved buns. Once your buns have sorted themselves out with your help and guidance, I am sure you will then find them far more affectionate and loving towards yourself. I think it is fair to say that bunnies are very selfish, and won't give you a thought or kiss if they are at loggerheads with each other. One of my bunnies, Dipsy, used to really upset me with all his attacking and biting, but in 5 weeks with real determination, he has now been turned around, is clicker trained, no longer aggressive, and because all is well in his world, which after all, is all that matters to him!! I am now able to cuddle him a couple of times a day and he gets 'sleepy eyes' and has a bit of a doze, and when he is out which is all day now because he is such a good little guy, he constantly hangs out by me, and comes up for a fuss and head rub, and it used to be a nightmare trying to catch him at night to put him to bed, but now he is called and clicked, immediately jumps into his den, and sits in his food corner, waiting for his bowls to be put down, and if I'm really lucky, do sometimes even get a bunny kiss on my hand!! Clicker training is usually very quick and easy, so please don't think you have to spend hours a day for weeks teaching it, probably 15 mins a day for a couple of weeks would be sufficient, and you know what they say about 'a dissaplined child is a happy child' well, I think the same can be said for rabbits, and no, I haven't had to 'clicker train' my daughter lol
 
how bad is the 'fighting'?

My two sisters hump each other every now and then. When Truffle humps Fudge, Fudge just sits and lets her, but when Fudge humps Truffle, she'll often get a tuft of Truffle's fur and then Truffle chases her away.
I see this occasional humping/chasing as fairly normal behaviour though - I wouldn't say it's particularly aggressive (they did fight propoerly when they were younger and it's nothign like that!) and nobody gets hurt. The majority of the time they're buddies so I don't see it as a problem.
 
Thanks so much for your thorough reply RogerRabbit! :)

I'd really like to try this clicker training - sounds like you've had a lot of success with it! What would you say is the best source for info for it in the internet? Do you follow some method or book? I watched some youtube videos on it and it seems like a lot of fun for both bunnies and people. I find it amazing you've managed to train two bunnies at the same time! I hope I can do the same. I believe this is the kind of thing that would get their minds out of fighting with each other. Because now it's colder outside, they don't like running as much on the balcony, and tend to spend more time indoors. I have different games for them: tunnels, different willow toys, pile of carpets that they dig etc., but I feel like they probably need even more activities.

Also, I'm going to try two separate food piles for the bunnies' dinner tonight!

To esupi: thanks for your message - I think you're right that to a certain degree occasional humping and chasing is normal bunny life. But lately my bunnies do it, depending on a day, about 4-6 times and sometimes even more, and they seem generally more uptight. p.s. Your bunnies look adorable!
 
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What would happen if they all fall out then? Could you accommodate 3 single buns? And then find friends for them individually?

Perhaps a rescue could help out? A neutral area where neither of them have been and start from scratch. I wouldn't consider another bun unless they were being separated and having their own husbun. A male won't necessarily be the dominant one:? In my male/female pair, it's the female who's boss!

Rabbits won't listen to you so trying to be dominant won't work :lol: Have you tried taking them on a car ride in their carrier? Don't know if that will help but that's what people do when bonding.

Thanks Aly&Poppy<3, yep hopefully they'll be friends again after I introduce even more activities for them :)
 
Can you describe the 'fighting'?

Also, when you talk about 'bed' is that somewhere you shut them away overnight or anything? Or is it something they have access to all the time?
 
Having had rabbits over many years I am now of the opinion that any rabbit relationship can be unpredicatable and not guaranteed - whatever the mix of sexes. I would be very wary of introducing a third bunny unless you have plan B for separate living arrangements for them all.

I have had to rebond my two recently (male and female) and I actually think they are better together this time, rather than first time round, but it was totally back to bonding basics with the pair of them and even that took two weekends.

As for food - try scattering it rather than a bowl (I may have missed that suggestion on this thread). Food is definately a flash point where my bunnies are concerned.
 
That's brilliant news about giving the clicker training a go, and maybe more mental stimulation is what your buns need, and to give them something else to think about. I think people tend to forget just how intelligent rabbits are, and it does kind of make sense, that sheer boredom and frustration could well prompt some fallouts. Actually training 2 rabbits at once isn't hard, as when you think about it, that is the whole cause of a lot of your bunnies fallouts, i.e. both wanting to be doing or using the same thing such as the bed. Often you see rabbits copying each other, because they don't want the other to have or be doing something that they aren't doing or haven't got, and so when I started training Dipsy, it was probably all of about 30 secs before Marshall was then wanting to have a look. You can make it a lot easier if you can find something that your bunnies really, really like, as they will then be wanting their treat so much, you will be amazed at how quickly they respond to the clicker. I probably implied that of course I give them healthy treats, but actually their passion is the Belvita Breakfast Biscuits!! Obviously, they don't have a whole biscuit, every time they are given a treat, just a tiny bit of it. I know a lot of people would frown on that, but there are worse things they could have, and I was really tearing my hair out with Dipsy's aggression, and after looking into it a lot more, I kept coming across people that had used 'clicker training' with very aggressive rabbits, with excellent results, which is what prompted me to give it a go myself. The book that I found the most useful, and suited me, because it's like an idiot's guide to clicker training, is 'Clicking With Your Rabbit' by Joan Orr and Teresa Lewin. I'm sure you will find that if your rabbits start to do something positive and fun together, that that will help their relationship a lot, as don't forget they remember their fallouts with each other, which obviously has a very negative effect on their relationship, and I think when rabbits have just had so many fallouts, you do then reach a point where all you can do is seperate them permanantly, and no amount of going back to the basic's, and starting the bonding process all over again, is ever going to get some bunnies to like each other. If I could just say, I saw the idea about scattering the food about, and I think this is fine for bunnies getting along well together, but I personally feel that food can be a real bone of contention with rabbits not getting on, and you need to have a lot more control over the situation, and to feed them and then stay with them to make sure they stick to their own piles, and when you've been clicking them, as one goes to go to the others food, you will be able to click them back to their own food. However, if it is scattered all over the place, mealtimes are just going to become absolute mayhem with you run ragged trying to maintain order, and your clicker won't even help, because there will no be one designated food pile for the bun to return too. Don't forget when one of them goes to the other's food, you probably think they will just be hopping all over the place and how on earth can you keep them at their own food, but as one starts to move away use your clicker and tell her to sit, and then guide her back to her own food. Sounds mad I know,but Dipsy is only 4months, and he comes when he is called and when I want him to go to bed, he will sit, and he understands 'stay' and I used this to stop him attacking me. Believe me, if an asbo bunny like Dipsy can become a reformed character in a few weeks, think how good your two could be and also much happier, and working together.
 
What would happen if they all fall out then? Could you accommodate 3 single buns? And then find friends for them individually?

Perhaps a rescue could help out? A neutral area where neither of them have been and start from scratch. I wouldn't consider another bun unless they were being separated and having their own husbun. A male won't necessarily be the dominant one:? In my male/female pair, it's the female who's boss!

Rabbits won't listen to you so trying to be dominant won't work :lol: Have you tried taking them on a car ride in their carrier? Don't know if that will help but that's what people do when bonding.

Not strictly true - I have many rabbits I can calm/control with my voice
 
Roger Rabbit, can I ask about the clicker training please. I can see how it works with a rabbit who has issues with the person because the issues are only present when you are there so if the clicker works, then that eradicates the problem. However, in this situaton potentially the problem can occur when the person is not present so can't use the clicker training if she find it works. So what would you suggest for that unsupervised time?
 
Until the bunnies were getting along a lot better, and are not fighting so much, I would not leave them together unattended. I would separate them for peace of mind that no serious injury could occur while I was out. The 'clicker training' has been proven to have excellent results with treating aggressive rabbits such as my Dipsy, who was a absolute horror, and to be honest, I was becoming really scared of him, because his attacks were really nasty and painful, and I really did loose blood most days!! I'm not meaning that clicker training will make them get on much better, but rabbits always at loggerheads with their friend, don't tend to be happy bunnies, and I think it is worth giving it a go to try and give them something else to think about, stimulate them more mentally, and rabbits tend to remember their fall outs which can ultimately prevent them from ever getting on, and to give them more memories of fun, good things they have done together, so that hopefully in time, they will view each other as a good bunny to have about, and not a fighting opponent.
 
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