Georgeypudding
Wise Old Thumper
When I get the chance I will nip down to the 2 nearest stores, if they have VIP and SVIP buns I will ask some questions about the neutering procedure and speak to a manager not just a memebr of staff :wave:
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VIP and SUPER VIP buns ar P@H!!!!!! *worse than ever!*
- Thread starter shell1805
- Start date
Captain Helen
Wise Old Thumper
:shock:
This can't be happening...
This can't be happening...
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
I have now spoken with the Manager of the same store I contacted yesterday. She apparently knows NOTHING about where these Rabbits come from. When I asked specifically if they were imported she said that she had no idea. So at the very least one would have hoped that a store Manager would have this basic information.
I went on to ask specifics about the neutering. She did a fair impression of a Politician in trying to avoid a direct answer. In the end she said that they are neutered at 5-6 weeks of age 'by a team of Vets'. She claimed not to know who or where these Vets are.
She did not know anything about the vaccinations, either what is given, at what age and by whom. All she did know was 'they all have to have a booster at 12 weeks'
All she knew about the micro-chipping is that 'it's been done'
I am guessing that the microchipping may be part of the criteria that would need to be met for importing the Rabbits :?
Anyway, she advised me to contact HO on Monday as 'they are the only ones who can answer all your questions'
Whatever the facts about this, in my opinion it is totally WRONG to neuter a 5-6 week old Rabbit
It is WRONG to import them
It is WRONG that a person responsible for an entire store knows almost nothing about the animals for whom she is responsible
I thought it could not be possible for me to to loathe P@H any more than I already do. But this really does take my loathing to a new level.
I went on to ask specifics about the neutering. She did a fair impression of a Politician in trying to avoid a direct answer. In the end she said that they are neutered at 5-6 weeks of age 'by a team of Vets'. She claimed not to know who or where these Vets are.
She did not know anything about the vaccinations, either what is given, at what age and by whom. All she did know was 'they all have to have a booster at 12 weeks'
All she knew about the micro-chipping is that 'it's been done'
I am guessing that the microchipping may be part of the criteria that would need to be met for importing the Rabbits :?
Anyway, she advised me to contact HO on Monday as 'they are the only ones who can answer all your questions'
Whatever the facts about this, in my opinion it is totally WRONG to neuter a 5-6 week old Rabbit
It is WRONG to import them
It is WRONG that a person responsible for an entire store knows almost nothing about the animals for whom she is responsible
I thought it could not be possible for me to to loathe P@H any more than I already do. But this really does take my loathing to a new level.
BattleKat
Wise Old Thumper
I didn't think it was actually legal to sell them at less than 8 weeks old, or is that puppies?I'm no expert but the little ones this morning looked younger than 8 weeks
I don't think there's much point in everyone going mental until we know for sure what's going on, but equally I'm thinking if they're charging £100 and people are paying it, why not charge £120/£130 and do it all here instead of importing from Spain? The people buying are obviously prepared to spend a decent sum of money.
They could neuter the unsold baby buns to be the super VIP bunnies, which then also solves the problem of unsold stock.
Or, if they think they won't sell so well at 5/6 months then sell them as babies but at a higher price and with a neutering voucher so it still works out good value for the customer.
I think neutered and vaccinated buns is essentially a big step forward, and should certainly have a positive influence on the consumer, but it depends on the breeding conditions and how the neutering is done as to whether they're actually doing anything for rabbit welfare.
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
OK, so as yet we dont know for certain what conditions these imported Rabbits come from.
But I have been doing a bit of research about European Rabbit Farms who supply the Pet trade aswell as the meat/fur trade
There are some very worrying and upsetting facts as revealed by investigation done by a working party from The European Food Safety Authority
Farmed rabbits are genetically not far removed from other rabbits used in laboratories or those in the wild and so their needs, the causes of poor welfare, and their susceptibility to disease is very similar. In particular, the Panel notes with some concern, that the mortality and morbidity of farmed rabbits seems considerably higher than in other farmed animal species due to enteric and respiratory infections, and reproductive problems. The breeding life of does is very short with more than 100% often being replaced each year.
In addition to improvements in health there is also a need to improve rabbit welfare by modifying both housing and husbandry practices. The panel has recommended increases in cage size and lower maximum stocking densities for growing animals, bearing in mind that slaughter weights vary greatly between countries according to local customs. The panel is also mindful that aggression between rabbits at certain times in the farming situation precludes them having social contact that they may choose to have. “Enrichment” of the rather barren normal cage environment for rabbits may sometimes carry the disadvantage of causing poor hygiene, but the Panel is convinced that more could be done to overcome some of these problems. In fact, disease status may actually be improved as a result of improving the environment particularly in addition to more research being carried out into some of the common diseases. A better understanding of their aetiology would lead to improved hygienic and husbandry measures as well as therapies aimed at prevention and optimised early treatment. The use of floor mats and platforms (as is happening in some countries) may well reduce the incidence of sore hocks, another serious cause for culling animals, although hygiene has to be well controlled.
The main problems holding back development and improvements in rabbit health and welfare is the lack of research and of a cohesive structure in the industry by which improvement strategies can be implemented at farm level.
So much for P@H careful sourcing of 'stock'
But I have been doing a bit of research about European Rabbit Farms who supply the Pet trade aswell as the meat/fur trade
There are some very worrying and upsetting facts as revealed by investigation done by a working party from The European Food Safety Authority
Farmed rabbits are genetically not far removed from other rabbits used in laboratories or those in the wild and so their needs, the causes of poor welfare, and their susceptibility to disease is very similar. In particular, the Panel notes with some concern, that the mortality and morbidity of farmed rabbits seems considerably higher than in other farmed animal species due to enteric and respiratory infections, and reproductive problems. The breeding life of does is very short with more than 100% often being replaced each year.
In addition to improvements in health there is also a need to improve rabbit welfare by modifying both housing and husbandry practices. The panel has recommended increases in cage size and lower maximum stocking densities for growing animals, bearing in mind that slaughter weights vary greatly between countries according to local customs. The panel is also mindful that aggression between rabbits at certain times in the farming situation precludes them having social contact that they may choose to have. “Enrichment” of the rather barren normal cage environment for rabbits may sometimes carry the disadvantage of causing poor hygiene, but the Panel is convinced that more could be done to overcome some of these problems. In fact, disease status may actually be improved as a result of improving the environment particularly in addition to more research being carried out into some of the common diseases. A better understanding of their aetiology would lead to improved hygienic and husbandry measures as well as therapies aimed at prevention and optimised early treatment. The use of floor mats and platforms (as is happening in some countries) may well reduce the incidence of sore hocks, another serious cause for culling animals, although hygiene has to be well controlled.
The main problems holding back development and improvements in rabbit health and welfare is the lack of research and of a cohesive structure in the industry by which improvement strategies can be implemented at farm level.
So much for P@H careful sourcing of 'stock'
lucy24
Mama Doe
look what i copied from P@H website:
When you buy a pet from us, you can be sure it was bred in comfortable and caring surroundings. We only source pets from suppliers who fulfil the 5 basic freedoms laid down in the Animal Welfare Act 2006, and we regularly inspect our suppliers to make sure they meet our high standards and that they have the right attitude towards animals.
We check our suppliers around the world against the ethical trading code we’ve developed, based on the Ethical Trading Initiative. And for our own-label products, we work closely with our suppliers to make sure that the social development and welfare of their employees are protected.
If these rabbits are form spain, how on earth can they always check conditions???:roll: talk about double standards!
When you buy a pet from us, you can be sure it was bred in comfortable and caring surroundings. We only source pets from suppliers who fulfil the 5 basic freedoms laid down in the Animal Welfare Act 2006, and we regularly inspect our suppliers to make sure they meet our high standards and that they have the right attitude towards animals.
We check our suppliers around the world against the ethical trading code we’ve developed, based on the Ethical Trading Initiative. And for our own-label products, we work closely with our suppliers to make sure that the social development and welfare of their employees are protected.
If these rabbits are form spain, how on earth can they always check conditions???:roll: talk about double standards!
I quoted this in my email to them, I used the term double standards too. I was beginning to think maybe I shouldn't have done but given what Jane has been told today I have changed my mind.
I am hoping beyond hope that the staff are confused and these rabbits are being neutered at 5/6 months and not weeks.
I am hoping beyond hope that the staff are confused and these rabbits are being neutered at 5/6 months and not weeks.
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
Just told C about this
She is :shock: :evil: :evil:
She has given me some advice as to who to contact. Cant do it til Monday though
Her closing words were 'this would appear to be a major Animal Welfare issue'
She is :shock:
:evil: :evil:She has given me some advice as to who to contact. Cant do it til Monday though
Her closing words were 'this would appear to be a major Animal Welfare issue'
As I said I mentioned on FB about how great i thought it was BUT after realising what it actually involved Ive asked some questions and others have also joined the thread..pets at home have asked people to email their queries and given an email address...when I saw this - Ive asked why they cant answer on the public forum when its a public question? It makes me wonder whats going on...Ive said hopefully pets at home will reply with some actual facts and figures in monday.
I feel horrible about all this and am really glad that people on here do have contacts and know the right way to go about this.
Ive asked some questions and others have also joined the thread..pets at home have asked people to email their queries and given an email address...when I saw this - Ive asked why they cant answer on the public forum when its a public question? It makes me wonder whats going on...Ive said hopefully pets at home will reply with some actual facts and figures in monday.I feel horrible about all this and am really glad that people on here do have contacts and know the right way to go about this.
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
:wave:
Mischief and Tinker's Mum
Wise Old Thumper
oh my god
and here i was thinking this was a good step forward....
i feel sick.....
im so sorry for saying i thought this was a good thing.... i didnt know.... i didnt know....
xxx
It's not your fault! We all thought it was a good thing xx
Liz47
Wise Old Thumper
oh my god
and here i was thinking this was a good step forward....
i feel sick.....
im so sorry for saying i thought this was a good thing.... i didnt know.... i didnt know....
xxx
Hey, hun! No one knew, I thought it was a good step forward too xxxxx
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
what the hell is wrong with these people!!!!!
xxx
I agree that it is awful. BUT at the moment we really dont know the true facts. It will never be 'good', not in any shape or form. But we need to know the true facts before we know just how bad things really are.
I wonder if the email system at HO will crash on Monday morning :?
