A relatively small cage.

I have two indoor rabbits, Roger and Riley, who live with me in my flat in North London. I'm a law student with about 8 hours of lectures a week so obviously I have a lot of time to dedicate to my rabbits, and believe me, they get most of my spare time!

This brings me on to my question - despite having two rabbits, I only have a 4x2x2 cage (I know a six foot one is recommended for two). Before people start to get at me for being cruel, I need to point out that my rabbits spend a majority of their time free-ranging in my bedroom, and are more or less only in the cage at night, or the few hours in which I am in lectures, and during this time they sleep. Often, as well, my flatmate or OH has them out. They are very well loved, and I am very careful about their welfare in every aspect of their lives. I would estimate they are out about 8 hours a day.

This doesn't stop me feeling guilty about the cage though. Is it a disaster? When they're in there they tend to sleep and have ample room to stretch out. It doesn't seem particularly small to me, to be honest, and I've only been concerned about it since I've seen people going on about cage size on here. Once they are fully house-trained (we're working on it (!)) I would love them to be free-ranging bunnies, but for now, the cage is necessary.

Is it really, really too small? :?

I'd say yes

Cant you get a dog crate, they are a reasonable price and will be better

If they are shut in at night, then really, the do need a bigger space as it is unfair. Dog crates are good, the biggest size, are good and they are cheap on ebay. Or you can get a pen and put it round the cage so they can be free range at night. Rabbits are most active at dawn and dusk, so they appreciate the space.

Do you mind me asking why they can't be out at night with the cage door open?

There's lots of us on here who have been guilty of too small accomodation, so don't feel too bad, just work on how it can be improved

I've just bought a doggy pen (not crate) on eBay for £30, it has 8 panels which are 60cm (w) and 91cm(h) each. It makes a 6ft by 2ft run when fully assembled

Xxx

I have a dog crate, in fact, I am at my parent's house right now so they are in it. But tbh, it's not much bigger... It's about the same in length and about half a foot bigger in width - plus it was expensive and they kick everything out of it? I don't know.

I'm in a rented flat at the moment and the lease ends in August. After that I'll be looking for a new place and will know a little more about the size I'm looking at. I did look for a bigger cage but the only reasonable indoor cage I could find was really badly reviewed and everyone was saying don't get it. Ahhh it's so irritating. I spent AGES looking for a good cage and there just arent many available. My room is an awkward shape as well so its difficult to get something really wide in. Good thing I'm moving, really, this should sort out that problem, at least.

I feel mean now :? I'm just irritated there aren't more reasonable options out there.

The reason they don't free range at night is because they wee on the bed whenever they get the chance to get up there. It sounds mean, but they are in my bedroom most of the time and I spend a LOT of time washing my sheets and duvet which gets to be a pain. Also, if I'm sleeping, they'll jump on me in the night and wake me up constantly. They are very, very noisy all the time. When I move they are going out of the bedroom, for sure!

I like the idea of a pen that I could put around the cage, although I'm not sure how much extra space that would really give them. I'll have a look, anyway.

If I could get their house training just a little bit more down this wouldn't be nearly such a problem.

Thank you for your time and advice.

The problem with a small cage is lack of exercise, which is not an issue if they are spending 2/3 of the time running loose, and boredom whilst in the cage. Often rabbits that usually have a lot of freedom cage sometimes get frustrated when confined to a small area. That can be exacerbated if it's at night when the are naturally quite active. If your rabbits are quite relaxed about their cage/routine it's not such an issue as if you find your rabbit spends the hours confined constantly rattling the bars to come out.

With the pen you could take the cage out of the equation, they would just need a litter box, food bowl and water, digging box, bed and hay pile, and something to hide in, a box or some tubing maybe xx

The pen is a definite for the next flat - I can look for a place that would be perfect for the buns :lol: I'm just trying to work out the logistics of it now.

The rabbits get loads of exercise, they tire themselves out in the time they are out, frankly, the older one, Riley, spends most of her time lying down anyway... She is a very lazy bun. They have lots of toys in their cage, but do spend most of their time in there chilling out.

They don't make noise at night (which, believe me, I would know about sleeping in the same room as them) and tend to sleep when I do. That is, until about 8 in the morning when they make a racket for their breakfast! I don't think they're bored or unhappy, but I would like them to have more space when I'm not around.

I have a terrible sleep pattern at the moment, so they don't get away until about 2 am every night when I start thinking about going to sleep, and then they get out at about 8 when they start being noisy and I get a couple more hours of sleep in the meantime.

Also, when they nap, they usually just hop back into the cage to do so. In fact, Riley spends a a decent amount of her 'out time' when the cage door is open, in the cage stretched out. But then, she is a very lazy bun.

Looking for a pen now!

Hi are they neutered? Just wondering as litter training can be difficult if they're not. We always use a pen to start, with puppy pads covered with blankets to protect the floor from accidents. Its more realistic for them long term as a cage is usually one big litter tray, where as in a pen they have a dedicated toilet area just like they will when fully trained. Even with trained buns the odd poo still falls out or the need to pee somewhere they shouldn't does occasionally take over! Looking back litter training is far easier with a mini house bun setup in a pen

IMO your buns have a lot of free range time so the time spent in the cage is not too bad.

In an ideal world we would all have loads of space for our rabbits, but it can't always be that way.

Sorry if this has been covered but what is the reason for not leaving them free-ranging at night too? I know it can be worrying at first but I found that when they weren't confined somewhere any destructive behaviour lessened.

Ah - this is good advice!

They're great when it comes to weeing in their cage - rarely an accident outside but there are poos EVERYWHERE. They also do a hundreds when they are just running around my room.

Unfortunately (in this sense) they are both neutered and this hasn't helped with the toilet training like i thought it would. The 10 month old (who has been neutered for 4 months) is the mane culprit. I hadnt heard that getting a pen would help (I'm ordering one from ebay now) so fingers crossed it will! I'm desperate for this not to be such a problem.

I figure with the pen I can set it up at night (assuming they fold away?) and put it down again in the day, so there is space in my room to move around and get out :lol:. Sounds like a good plan!

'IMO your buns have a lot of free range time so the time spent in the cage is not too bad.

In an ideal world we would all have loads of space for our rabbits, but it can't always be that way.'

I agree. I think they are happy and they get tons of exercise. A bigger cage would be great, but, I mean, it really is difficult to say because its not black and white. I'm sure the 6x2x2 guidelines were in mind for people who do not spend their lives with their rabbits :lol:.

When your ordering the description should say how they are put together whether it's pins or clips type things. Most are foldaway and transportable for holidays and such for pooches.

Xx

Schuette said:

Sorry if this has been covered but what is the reason for not leaving them free-ranging at night too? I know it can be worrying at first but I found that when they weren't confined somewhere any destructive behaviour lessened.

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It's the weeing on the bed behaviour, unforunantely. That and jumping on mine and the OH's head at night and waking us up :shock: I would love to have them free-ranging, and I'm working on it! But unfortunately their toilet (and wallpaper-ripping in a rented flat where I could lose my deposit) habits aren't improving too much.

Bah. Difficult situation.

Here's two threads of mine which are similar in respect to yours, have a read, lots of good advice..

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=270310

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=270457

Xx

I am also in rented accommodation and my skirting boards have taken a bashing..good job I love them Aint it :lol:

Hi, this was exactly the same situation that I was in a couple of months back. I'm also a student in rented house, and had Oscar in a ferplast 120 cage when we were at lectures (no more that 3-4 hours a day) and at night, and free range the rest of the time.

Slowly but surely we started leaving him out alone, so for an hour when we were out, and built it up to all night. I noticed that all the reasons we were stopping him from free ranging all the time- the chewing and the pooing everywhere- stopped when he was free ranging all the time! He's now been fully free range for 3 weeks, and I would hate to have to shut him in his cage again (although that's where he spends most of his time as far as our landlady is concerned )

If free ranging definitely isn't an option, I would extend the cage with a pen as others has suggested. I couldn't quite believe how active rabbits are at night until he was in my bedroom when I went home :evil:

With regards to them jumping on you and waking you up, could you keep them in a different room at night?

Maybe I will try some more free-ranging. Not sure this will stop them weeing on the bed though. Hopefully one day.

I think most problems will be solved by moving to a different flat - we have two other rabbits (my flatmate's) at the moment so there is a bit of territory issue to deal with. I won't be living with her next year though, as she is moving away for a job.

I'll start to build up their time out and see how that goes. Maybe buy a better plastic sheet for the bed (an un-shredable one). I'd like to phase out the cage altogether.

So I'm buying a puppy pen now - just shopping around for the best deal - and will see how that goes. I'm excited haha. I'm sure the guys are too.

Thanks so much for your help everyone - much appreciated.

x

kstevens7 said:

It's the weeing on the bed behaviour, unforunantely. That and jumping on mine and the OH's head at night and waking us up :shock: I would love to have them free-ranging, and I'm working on it! But unfortunately their toilet (and wallpaper-ripping in a rented flat where I could lose my deposit) habits aren't improving too much.

Bah. Difficult situation.

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Right i see. I have had this in the past too We built them a ramp to the foot of the bed and it solved 99% of the problems. As did not feeding them straight after I got up, this meant they were weeing to try to wake me :shock: Now I go out before feeding time and it's improved immensely.

If you feel able then a tarp over the bed while you aren't in it would stop you having to wash the duvet when they do wee on it. Doesn't stop it while you are in it sadly but helps when you aren't.

The poos everywhere thing. I think this may be due to them being caged for a portion of the day so when they go out again they feel the need to mark the area as their territory again. This is something I have with my lionheads, if I skip a few days of their landing free-range time then when they do come out onto the landing they mark a lot.

With regard to weeing on the bed, we don't let our house buns into our room unsupervised! They used to have 24-7 access but the one girl loves to pee on anything soft and cosy-blankets, fluffy rugs, beds lol. Even a plastic sheet meant they just trampled through the puddle and hopped about with wee on their paws! We've had other buns that only wee on our bed not their own! This usually means they are marking your territory or scent with theirs. If you have contact with or smell like other buns that could be why they wee to mark their scent over the top of your 'mixture' of smells. Others do it as in insult i'm sure lol. As for jumping on heads they want to play or get attention usually - one of ours ignored us until bedtime then it was party time as soon as we started dozing he's be up binkying across the bed! He never stopped doing it he just got quicker at getting down before we could tell him to! He did used to sleep on my legs or by my feet eventually. Another insisted on sitting on my pillow there were many mornings i'd wake up to him chewing a poo whilst sitting on my pillow peering at me! But these are the things you learn to laugh about and one of the things I miss when they go to the bridge perhaps some play on the bed and teaching them to get down with a reward could help, it worked with only one of ours though!

'Another insisted on sitting on my pillow there were many mornings i'd wake up to him chewing a poo whilst sitting on my pillow peering at me!'

:lol: I love this, made me laugh!

They will certainly have to be moved from the bedroom when they can be - in the meantime, however, I have ordered a duvet protector and second mattress one, so at least I won't be doing so much washing.

I wish I knew the exact reason they were doing it. It does seem to be on anything soft and comfy though, so I guess there isn't really a way to fix that. They are getting better - it's more or less only on the duvet, so if I pull that back we're usually okay. Don't solve the sleeping at night problem though.

They sometimes do it when they're annoyed with me (this I know) but other times things are fine. I'll try not feeding them as soon as I wake up and see if that helps. I've just ordered an extra large mattress cover to use as a 'tarp' when I'm away. So hopefully there will at least be less washing to do!

As for the poos, I'm hoping getting a puppy pen will improve their messy toilet habits.

What I have done is ordered this before I could change my mind:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....30070&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1582wt_1199

This was the one allie1904 suggested in one of her other threads, and it looks pretty excellent so I decided to go with it. I also got some puppy training pads to protect the carpet. I can't wait! Hopefully it isn't too messy.

Thanks again for all your help.