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Neighbours complaining?

Oddly, just to throw a curveball in.

I use wood shavings, but for a seperate reason. This reason is now demolished so i'll be changing to megazorb myself shortly, upon recommendations from people who have further experience with it than me :)

I've tried carefresh (hated it, massively - THAT STINKS WHEN IT GETS WET :shock:).

I've tried 'Critter Litter' which is what my local pet store sold, that was awful. Biscuit just ate it :shock: so we got rid of that.

Currently, its newspaper > limited level of shavings > lots of hay. That tends to last, ooh, 20-30 minutes or so? :roll: :lol:

I think your neighbours if anything can smell the hay more than anything else. My two are house rabbits and i change their 2x litter trays every day and there is never any smell apart from hay in our house. :)
 
VickiP said:
Megazorb is cheap though, I don't get where people get their 'safe' woodshavings from if it's cheaper than Megazorb:? the only ones I've seen are quite expensive to be honest. Maybe people are using the 'non-safe' type that's not been properly dust-extracted or something. For you Shadow one £7.00 sack would probably last you 3-4weeks as it lasts me for 2 weeks roughly and i have 4 buns. I buy Yesterdays News-rabbit litter, for when I run out and am waiting for Megazorb to come, that is expensive I think but, safe if nibbled.
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i get mine from b and m at 50p for a small bale each time i go to buy these they last me about 2 months i think and i only spend about 2 pound. but i was thinking about switching but the only place ive been able to find megazorb is on the internet on the hayexperts websites and i dont want to order off there if i can aviod it but if i ever need to get stuff on there i would rather do it all together.
 
shadow05 said:
i get mine from b and m at 50p for a small bale each time i go to buy these they last me about 2 months i think and i only spend about 2 pound. but i was thinking about switching but the only place ive been able to find megazorb is on the internet on the hayexperts websites and i dont want to order off there if i can aviod it but if i ever need to get stuff on there i would rather do it all together.
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FYI, most 'horse supplies' stores and farm shops that sell animal feed will sell it.

Otherwise, you can get it from Amazon for £7 for an 85L bag. Just so you know and know your options :wave:
 
Thank you for providing, some sort of links at least.
However, firstly, anyone at all can make a post on about.com, along with wiki, I find it best not to take advice from such pages where anyone can submit an article, sorry. The article on rabbitrehome itself is interesting, mainly because it suggests the rspca advice against the use of shavings, yet I have seen them using it themselves for small mammals :shock:

The article from rabbit.org was interesting, with some interesting issues made. I particularly liked that it was wrote by someone with a PHD, although in what I couldn't find..:|

However, one thing they all had in common, most was about cedar shaving, with some mentions of pine, with which a mention of not much research being done. And, they were all extremely vague. They all mentioned that links were for the most part, uncharacterized and needed more research. They have no mention of what research was done, how, where, etc I could on.

Whilst they give some info as to what problems have been reported, it actually offers no information to the number of animals out of the whole tested, which is a basic requirement of scientific study? It really offers no more info than any of us could give to whether it is the odd animal or a higher percentage. :? I'm not dismissing your efforts at all, but a lot of elaboration certainly needs to be offered before any basis is to be met, I think. :)

As for boredom, you could give your rabbits everything available, but when environemental sorroundings are adjusted to, boredom happens, Its inevitable, and they certainly should be nawing on something other than just hay to keep those teeth nice and trim. :) I'm not telling you to take blankets away from your rabbits, simply saying I disagree with it for reasons stated but I don't suggest anyone not use them. Sometimes what rabbits love aren't good for them, but thats up to the person to decide ;)


Schuette said:
http://www.rabbit.org/care/shavings.html
http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/guineapigs/a/woodshavings.htm
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=178252
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Anyway, I agree with Graham. I'd prefer my first thread on this forum unrelated to the debate of substrate not to be locked - can't imagine why I ever refrained from posting here for so long :roll: Please Schuette, if you can't let it go please start another thread or pm me, please don't drag it to other threads I start and impact negatively on my experience here.

I simply started this thread for a bit of friendly support from other bunny keepers in response to a nasty thing that happened to me.
 
Yup I agree! Any large horse feed/supply shops should have it. The brilliant thing is, if they don't have what you want, they'd be happy to order anything in for you *nods* :D (probably much cheaper than online I think too).


GrahamL said:
FYI, most 'horse supplies' stores and farm shops that sell animal feed will sell it.

Otherwise, you can get it from Amazon for £7 for an 85L bag. Just so you know and know your options :wave:
Click to expand...
 
Guy said:
Yup I agree! Any large horse feed/supply shops should have it. The brilliant thing is, if they don't have what you want, they'd be happy to order anything in for you *nods* :D (probably much cheaper than online I think too).
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Oddly, Amazon sell it cheaper (direct from Farmway) than most online stores pay by trade price, so i doubt its muct cheaper from many farm shops as they'd have to add their own carriage charge and profit margins on :wave:
 
Guy. In the past various forum members have posted that they have seen evidence of woodshavings in the lungs of rabbits that have been kept on them. Also not all RSPCA branches use them, mine for example will fail a homecheck based on that alone. As for boredom my rabbits don't chew their cotton rugs as I have provide them with lots of wooden things including apple branches occasionally. The cotton rugs shouldn't do any harm anyway as it is a natural fibre.
 
Yup I know stores have to add their little charges on. I think it depends sometimes with what your looking for and where, sometimes you find the odd little bargain :D Like my local feed store have the allen & page rabbit food in all the time for 7.50 for 20kgs! I remember reading on one forum a lot of people couldn't find it and really wanted it. :D

I know some online shops charge a lot sometimes (never looked on amazon for rabbity stuff tho) and the delivery charges are scary :shock: :lol:


GrahamL said:
Oddly, Amazon sell it cheaper (direct from Farmway) than most online stores pay by trade price, so i doubt its muct cheaper from many farm shops as they'd have to add their own carriage charge and profit margins on :wave:
Click to expand...
 
Guy said:
Yup I know stores have to add their little charges on. I think it depends sometimes with what your looking for and where, sometimes you find the odd little bargain :D Like my local feed store have the allen & page rabbit food in all the time for 7.50 for 20kgs! I remember reading on one forum a lot of people couldn't find it and really wanted it. :D

I know some online shops charge a lot sometimes (never looked on amazon for rabbity stuff tho) and the delivery charges are scary :shock: :lol:
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£7.00 for the megazorb 85L + £5 carriage wave:

Still, works out cheaper if you can't get to any farm shops etc (which is stupid, as i live in the country) yet nowhere close sells it. Closest distributor is 50minutes away.
 
Mine don't chew them. And for front teeth they have wood things to chew. The majority of their living area is lino actually. Each pair has a blanket (previously the lionheads had towels but their new blankets arrived this morning *excited* so they have that on the ottoman where they sleep at night and a plastic dog bed with nothing in it, where they sleep during the day. My lops have a duvet with a blanket on top) and their litter tray and my lops can come on my bed if they please.

As for the links I was simply posting links that a search here threw up, save someone else doing it. I haven't read them myself as I'm quite happy with what I use. I have one rabbit with a lung issue due to not getting treatment for Pasteurella in her first home so I really don't want to use anything that has any chance of further irritating that.

I get all my stuff for a horse feed merchants. Baled hay, bag of megazorb, bag of Science Selective and some dried Burns stuff when they have it in. They sell A&P but it's in the 20kg bags (do they actually do anything else?) and this would last us for like 2 years and I believe the BBD is three months. That place saves me so much bother and expense. Then they have some treat hay from The Hay Experts every now and then on top of the meadow hay.
 
Haven't read all posts on this but just wondered whether the neighbours can smell your rabbits when they are out in their runs, rather than in their hutches?
 
See I actually think Lino is a fantastic idea really. I saw a thread on here today with a lovely little rabbit shed that had lino, and thought ahhhh, that must be so easy to clean up :love: With my buns being "open to the elements" though, I'd be worried of them getting cold even with lots of hay as bedding. If I were to put lighting etc in the garage for them, I'd use lino in the hutches instead simply for ease of cleaning. Not for the rex though. Want to avoid any poss feet problems.

I don't think A&P do smaller bags, to be totally honest I think it may have been designed for raisers/breeders of rabbits in america? For food or something. Don't quote me on that though, that's just a speculation. Is the science selective one the one with the large nuggets? I've been wanting to try that, although I think when I looked it up it had higher protien levels than other feeds. *shrugs* :)


Schuette said:
Mine don't chew them. And for front teeth they have wood things to chew. The majority of their living area is lino actually. Each pair has a blanket (previously the lionheads had towels but their new blankets arrived this morning *excited* so they have that on the ottoman where they sleep at night and a plastic dog bed with nothing in it, where they sleep during the day. My lops have a duvet with a blanket on top) and their litter tray and my lops can come on my bed if they please.

As for the links I was simply posting links that a search here threw up, save someone else doing it. I haven't read them myself as I'm quite happy with what I use. I have one rabbit with a lung issue due to not getting treatment for Pasteurella in her first home so I really don't want to use anything that has any chance of further irritating that.

I get all my stuff for a horse feed merchants. Baled hay, bag of megazorb, bag of Science Selective and some dried Burns stuff when they have it in. They sell A&P but it's in the 20kg bags (do they actually do anything else?) and this would last us for like 2 years and I believe the BBD is three months. That place saves me so much bother and expense. Then they have some treat hay from The Hay Experts every now and then on top of the meadow hay.
Click to expand...
 
I have lino in my hutches and it works great. I just pile the bedding in a litter tray which can be emptied daily and job done. Hubby tacked it down so they couldn't chew it.
 
GrahamL said:
FYI, most 'horse supplies' stores and farm shops that sell animal feed will sell it.

Otherwise, you can get it from Amazon for £7 for an 85L bag. Just so you know and know your options :wave:
Click to expand...

oh kool ill have a look now didnt think they did it at amazon. :)
 
Guy said:
Thank you for providing, some sort of links at least.
However, firstly, anyone at all can make a post on about.com, along with wiki, I find it best not to take advice from such pages where anyone can submit an article, sorry. The article on rabbitrehome itself is interesting, mainly because it suggests the rspca advice against the use of shavings, yet I have seen them using it themselves for small mammals :shock:

The article from rabbit.org was interesting, with some interesting issues made. I particularly liked that it was wrote by someone with a PHD, although in what I couldn't find..:|

However, one thing they all had in common, most was about cedar shaving, with some mentions of pine, with which a mention of not much research being done. And, they were all extremely vague. They all mentioned that links were for the most part, uncharacterized and needed more research. They have no mention of what research was done, how, where, etc I could on.

Whilst they give some info as to what problems have been reported, it actually offers no information to the number of animals out of the whole tested, which is a basic requirement of scientific study? It really offers no more info than any of us could give to whether it is the odd animal or a higher percentage. :? I'm not dismissing your efforts at all, but a lot of elaboration certainly needs to be offered before any basis is to be met, I think. :)

As for boredom, you could give your rabbits everything available, but when environemental sorroundings are adjusted to, boredom happens, Its inevitable, and they certainly should be nawing on something other than just hay to keep those teeth nice and trim. :) I'm not telling you to take blankets away from your rabbits, simply saying I disagree with it for reasons stated but I don't suggest anyone not use them. Sometimes what rabbits love aren't good for them, but thats up to the person to decide ;)





Anyway, I agree with Graham. I'd prefer my first thread on this forum unrelated to the debate of substrate not to be locked - can't imagine why I ever refrained from posting here for so long :roll: Please Schuette, if you can't let it go please start another thread or pm me, please don't drag it to other threads I start and impact negatively on my experience here.

I simply started this thread for a bit of friendly support from other bunny keepers in response to a nasty thing that happened to me.
Click to expand...

i think that hay is probably the best thing for them to knaw on my rabbit before i came on her was bored as ever, was constanly having problems with him. when i found this forum out i tried some things that people suggested like giving him more hay this did work quite well and still does when i go to bed at night he goes throw about two small hay racks full, ive also extended his accommodation and he is a lot more happier now, hes stopped spraying altogether now which is excellent, he still digs and chews on the duvet cover but that cant be helped much. but were finaly getting there, there have been huge differences in personalty. compared to wat he use to be like he is more wats the word friendlier now he use to be a right g*t.:D

srry for talking on for ages lol anyway i think it depends on the rabbit how much they have. i dont think the bunny blanket is a good idea but it also depends on the rabbit in questions character. i would never think to give one to scooter hed tear it to pieces and eat it.
 
Just in case the neighbours do complain you do have written permission to keep ten rabbits and any other animals don't you? If not I would ask your landlord.

One reason why the neighbour may have said nothing to you is because they were going to move and would have to tell the people who were buying the house that a complaint had been made.
 
Guy said:
With respect, every single substrate has advantages and disadvantages which is why different keepers use different substrates, and it's important to remember that there is not only one way to do things in the world of animal husbandry. So indeed, it is simply down to individual preference. Just because you use and like megazorb, doesn't mean you should force it down the throats of others as the ONLY substrate you should use, or indeed better. I have horsey friends who have used megazorb, and when helping them muck out, I opened the sack and the dust that resulted from that and tipping the sack into the stable made me cough horrendously. I have heard a lot of similar comments from people who have used it for gpigs. I have never had this with the shavings I've been buying for the near on the last ten years.
I think the only reason Megazorb was mentioned certainly by me was as an attempt to reduce odours and keep the rabbits drier

In regards to hay and straw, if you mean as substrate (as comparing feed and substrate really has no comparison) then hay is just as ineffective at absorbancy as straw; both are poo for the job and offer practically NO absorbancy. As a feed; well no one should be feeding straw rather than good quality hay unless a vet has instructed them to do so.

I think most members are aware of that

I appreciate many of the people suggesting it are doing so because they feel it would absorb any odour better (which is closer to the actual topic of my thread) and I thank you for that. However: seeing as only I can smell the waste when I practically have my face in it, I really do think it shouldn't be making that much of a difference to whether the house next door can smell it.

I thought that was the point of the thread, the neighbours complaining about the smell of your rabbits

As someone mentioned liver & respitary problems: any substrate can cause allergic or negative reactions in animals, especially wood based products such as megazorb and shavings. However, I think its important before passing such info on to suggest that these occurances are relatively rare, but possible. :) Nevertheless, I would genuinely be interested in reading the papers or sources you got this info from, assuming it's not just regurgitated info.

I'd be interested in reading the papers or sources you have to support the use of woodshavings, I'd also be interested to know how much they cost you for 10 rabbits.

Thank you to all those lovely replies who offered support, I do feel much better this morning about it all. I'm going to speak to the new neighbours when I get a chance, if they can smell anything I think I'll move them into the garage until spring/summer. We have no lighting in there so I don't want them cooped up in there all summer and missing seeing the sunshine. :D xx
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Unless your garage has a window/door other than an up and over door I wouldn't recommend housing rabbits in a dark garage, all living animals need a certain amount of daylight and if they are used to being outside i don't think it's very fair on them - it would seem far more logical to address the other options for odour reduction assuming the new neighbours can smell them aswell.

Just to add most of us/ I certainly have tried every substrate so my advice isn't regurgitated from anywhere other than my own experience, that said, I only have 4 pet rabbits as opposed to 10 so I can afford to buy better quality to keep them comfortable.

Hope you enjoy the forum you seem to have your own experiences to share with us which is great, I'd love to see some pics of your buns:wave:
 
I am aware of the concerns re woodshavings and don't use but I do use wooden pellet cat litter (will be changing to Megazorb when shed is built in Spring and I have more room) and am starting to worry if this also may be a problem ie made from wood and kind of breaks down when weed on, but isn't dusty. Does anyone know?
 
twobunnies&apony said:
I am aware of the concerns re woodshavings and don't use but I do use wooden pellet cat litter (will be changing to Megazorb when shed is built in Spring and I have more room) and am starting to worry if this also may be a problem ie made from wood and kind of breaks down when weed on, but isn't dusty. Does anyone know?
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i did use to use this but i think theres a chance of compacsion if i spelt it right. some rabbit will sit and eat it which isnt good. its also heavy when wet.
 
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