fluffiebunnie
Warren Veteran
So pleased! 
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Inner ear infection,severe head tilt and rolling U/D Advise for Graeme plz pg34
- Thread starter Gemmapookie
- Start date
one of the family
Mama Doe
Excellent news! I'm glad you were one of the ones who hung in there even when things looked so bleak.
What stars both you and Mimi are!!
Well done to you both :wave:
What stars both you and Mimi are!!
Well done to you both :wave:
Kermit
Wise Old Thumper
I really am so happy for you and mimi.
I know what you mean with saying that she is more affectionate.....my Kermit was a total mummy's boy anyways, but he just became the sookiest bunny ever after he got better.
I am so glad that you both fought this and can now have some happy time together
I feel all happy inside for you xx
I know what you mean with saying that she is more affectionate.....my Kermit was a total mummy's boy anyways, but he just became the sookiest bunny ever after he got better.
I am so glad that you both fought this and can now have some happy time together
I feel all happy inside for you xx
Graeme27Uk
Warren Scout
Great to hear your bun is making a great recovery. Not wanting to hijack the post by Cookie is almost at 90 degrees now with her head though she seems well enough within herself even if she does trip over her ears (she is a lop). She is eating masses and drinking well, so apart from a wonky head she seems fine. Just wish she could get rid of wonky-head so that she could be the binkee bunny she was, its not nice seeing her roll about and being unsteady on her feet.
Gemmapookie
Wise Old Thumper
Thanks everyone, I honestly feel like im glowing inside! I cant stop watching her coz shes so happy and full of life
Graeme thats great news it definatly sounds like Cookie is on the mend and its still early days for you guys Dont give up on hoping that her head will right itself just yet, I find Mimis gets slightly better every day, and with it her balance. She cant binky yet but runs around a top speed like a crazy woman and is always on the go and excited by everything :lol:
Graeme thats great news it definatly sounds like Cookie is on the mend and its still early days for you guys
Dont give up on hoping that her head will right itself just yet, I find Mimis gets slightly better every day, and with it her balance. She cant binky yet but runs around a top speed like a crazy woman and is always on the go and excited by everything :lol:
Graeme27Uk
Warren Scout
Cookie is losing her balance now and I am worried about letting her out to exercise as she falls over and rolls lots. Speaking to the vet this evening he says that he would call it a day.
I have spoken to him about ordering in PenicillinG and Benthazine for combo-antibiotics in case its an inner infection.
I have done so much research on this!!!
On one hand I want to give Cookie as good a chance as possible and give her all the medication and such that she needs. However, looking at her getting stressed, falling over, struggling to clean herself I am wondering if I am being selfish in wanting her to continue and it would be more humane to let her go.
Silly thing is she still is as hungry and stuff as she ever was and if she didn't have the 90 degree head then she would probably just be like her normal self.
Also thrown into the mix is that we have just had twins (planned for one kid NOT 2!!) and they are taking loads of attention so its hard to juggle everything at the moment.
It's been just over a month now on Baytril orally, Panacur and Metacam and no improvement. If anything she seems to be getting worse. If she continues with the current head tilt then I can't see it being fair on her to allow her to continually fall over, unable to really exercise like she longs to and interact with her husbun.
She just lays there..... looking forelorn.
I have spoken to him about ordering in PenicillinG and Benthazine for combo-antibiotics in case its an inner infection.
I have done so much research on this!!!
On one hand I want to give Cookie as good a chance as possible and give her all the medication and such that she needs. However, looking at her getting stressed, falling over, struggling to clean herself I am wondering if I am being selfish in wanting her to continue and it would be more humane to let her go.
Silly thing is she still is as hungry and stuff as she ever was and if she didn't have the 90 degree head then she would probably just be like her normal self.
Also thrown into the mix is that we have just had twins (planned for one kid NOT 2!!) and they are taking loads of attention so its hard to juggle everything at the moment.
It's been just over a month now on Baytril orally, Panacur and Metacam and no improvement. If anything she seems to be getting worse. If she continues with the current head tilt then I can't see it being fair on her to allow her to continually fall over, unable to really exercise like she longs to and interact with her husbun.
She just lays there..... looking forelorn.
Gemmapookie
Wise Old Thumper
Awww poor Cookie
You know her best and will do the very best for her either way. But my gut instinct is to say dont give up yet If its an inner ear infection they can be extremely stubborn, and it might be that Baytril isnt a strong enough antibiotic so the infections getting slowly worse. If it was me Id want he put on another much stronger antibiotic (Mimi was on Marbocyl) and see how that goes.
If she is eating well it means she is fighting, and to me that has to be a reason to keep fighting with her. Mimi got extremely bad as you know, to the point where she was completely immobilised (other than almost constant rolling) for 4 weeks non stop. Of course we questioned whether or not we should let her go but because she was "well" in herself, eating, drinking etc we decided to carry on. Its really hard I know, because theres obviously no guarantee that she will ever recover, I really feel for you.
I dont think you are being selfish atall keeping her going, if you were having to force feed her and she was very poorly in herself I might be saying otherwise but she wants to fight this, and I believe she can. Alot of the time with Mimi it seemed completely hopeless but god I am so glad we kept going. Shes completely back to normal now except for her head is still tilted about 15 degrees, but its no problem for her atall, she gets around perfectly.
So, my advise would be to get her on some new aggressive abx ASAP and review the situation again in 2 weeks time. Obviously your vet knows her case much better than I do, but I just dont think its time to give up on her yet. Some of the head tilt stories Ive read have gone on for months. By the way have you been on the website www.onthewonk.com. If not check it out, theres some interesting stories on there that gave me hope when Mimi was ill.
Let me know if theres anything I can do or advise to help.
CONGRATULATIONS on the little ones by the way, you really have got your hands full at the moment! :shock:
prettylupin
Wise Old Thumper
Great news about Mimi!
Hang in there with Cookie Graeme, it often gets worse before it gets better. Good luck and hang in there x
Hang in there with Cookie Graeme, it often gets worse before it gets better. Good luck and hang in there x
Graeme27Uk
Warren Scout
Just been to the vets and I feel worse than ever.
He has given her Bicillin to treat the head tilt in case its caused by an inner ear infection (the Baytril doesnt seem to be having much effect). This is an injection into the muscle each day so I have to go back each evening for seven days.
He said that we would see if this makes any difference but he is of the opinion that it probably won't.
He also said, as previously stated, that if it was his bunny he would have had it pts as he feels that is more humaine rather than to continue to let her suffer, even though she is in no pain, the constant disorientation and rolling and so forth he views as unfair.
I mentioned that other bunnies had recovered from head tilt though he stated that these cases were not in the majority but rather the 1/1000 cases that happens to recover for whatever reason.
I don't want Cookie suffering and currently I am not sure whether she is or not. She is eating, pooping, etc. But she is nowhere near as mobile or lively as she was and she does look a bit fed up and stressed. Plus she flails about so much I am worried she will break a limb or her neck or back.
Plus there is the problem of what about her little husbun, Oscar. He probably would not want to be left on his own, and seeing as he is only a youngster (8 mnths roughly) he has a long time left. We could try bonding him with our other duo though Smudge is completely anti-bunny other than her husbun Rufus. I worry that if we attempted to bond Oscar with them that that would break their bond that they have had for years.
Is it really cruel to keep Cookie going? What are the chances that she will ever return to normal or is this something that she is going to be stuck with and thus her quality of life is less.
I feel poop.
He has given her Bicillin to treat the head tilt in case its caused by an inner ear infection (the Baytril doesnt seem to be having much effect). This is an injection into the muscle each day so I have to go back each evening for seven days.
He said that we would see if this makes any difference but he is of the opinion that it probably won't.
He also said, as previously stated, that if it was his bunny he would have had it pts as he feels that is more humaine rather than to continue to let her suffer, even though she is in no pain, the constant disorientation and rolling and so forth he views as unfair.
I mentioned that other bunnies had recovered from head tilt though he stated that these cases were not in the majority but rather the 1/1000 cases that happens to recover for whatever reason.
I don't want Cookie suffering and currently I am not sure whether she is or not. She is eating, pooping, etc. But she is nowhere near as mobile or lively as she was and she does look a bit fed up and stressed. Plus she flails about so much I am worried she will break a limb or her neck or back.
Plus there is the problem of what about her little husbun, Oscar. He probably would not want to be left on his own, and seeing as he is only a youngster (8 mnths roughly) he has a long time left. We could try bonding him with our other duo though Smudge is completely anti-bunny other than her husbun Rufus. I worry that if we attempted to bond Oscar with them that that would break their bond that they have had for years.
Is it really cruel to keep Cookie going? What are the chances that she will ever return to normal or is this something that she is going to be stuck with and thus her quality of life is less.
I feel poop.
Gemmapookie
Wise Old Thumper
Hi Graeme,
I have to say I kind of disagree with your vet on this one. If you look at storys such as my Mimis, Kermits Kermit, Bunnyaddicts Wilson, Schuettes Mischia and many more (cant even remember them all without re-reading my thread!) you will see that it can go on for a very long time, months even BUT they ALL got better. Schuette's vet also advised her to have her boy Mischia pts as he was very poorly and didnt seem to be improving, but to see him now its like it never happened. His head is completely back to normal and hes a happy bunny with his 3 friends. Same with bunnyaddicts Wilson, her vet advised having him put to sleep and hes fine now, still has a head tilt but balances fine and lives a normal life. And my Mimi was in a HORRIFIC state for a very long time but now she's full of life, and her head is well on the way to being straight again
I think the most important thing to address is Cookies balance issues, as it really is this that affects their quality of life. Has your vet suggested trying anything like Meclozine or Stemetil? They're human anti-vertigo drugs which are commonly used on head tilt buns to help with the dizzyness and imbalance. Mimi was on Meclozine for the whole time she was poorly up until about 2 weeks ago. Im so glad hes got her on bicillin, it should work wonders if it is an inner ear infection causing her head tilt, although personally Id give it atleast 2 weeks on these before expecting to see a huge difference. Im sorry i cant remember, has Cookie had a course of panacur incase it is EC? If not it's advisable to give her that too.
Whats her current living situation? I was worried about Mimi hurting herself flailing around too so had to confine her to a padded cage boulstered with towels. Yes, it will affect the quality of her life but if she can get through it it will be worth it.
I know exactly how you feel, its horrific wondering whether or not you're doing the right thing and seeing a beloved bun in such a horrible state. But in no way are you being cruel keeping her alive, please be assured of that.
Is there another bunny savvy vet near to you? Maybe a second opinion would help put your mind at ease and get a fresh perspective. To be honest I think your vet is giving up abit too soon, just my opinion though.
You can also call Bristol Rabbit Clinic and ask to speak to one of the vets and see what they think, could even get them to speak to your vet
xxxxxxxxx
I have to say I kind of disagree with your vet on this one. If you look at storys such as my Mimis, Kermits Kermit, Bunnyaddicts Wilson, Schuettes Mischia and many more (cant even remember them all without re-reading my thread!) you will see that it can go on for a very long time, months even
BUT they ALL got better. Schuette's vet also advised her to have her boy Mischia pts as he was very poorly and didnt seem to be improving, but to see him now its like it never happened. His head is completely back to normal and hes a happy bunny with his 3 friends. Same with bunnyaddicts Wilson, her vet advised having him put to sleep and hes fine now, still has a head tilt but balances fine and lives a normal life. And my Mimi was in a HORRIFIC state for a very long time but now she's full of life, and her head is well on the way to being straight again I think the most important thing to address is Cookies balance issues, as it really is this that affects their quality of life. Has your vet suggested trying anything like Meclozine or Stemetil? They're human anti-vertigo drugs which are commonly used on head tilt buns to help with the dizzyness and imbalance. Mimi was on Meclozine for the whole time she was poorly up until about 2 weeks ago. Im so glad hes got her on bicillin, it should work wonders if it is an inner ear infection causing her head tilt, although personally Id give it atleast 2 weeks on these before expecting to see a huge difference. Im sorry i cant remember, has Cookie had a course of panacur incase it is EC? If not it's advisable to give her that too.
Whats her current living situation? I was worried about Mimi hurting herself flailing around too so had to confine her to a padded cage boulstered with towels. Yes, it will affect the quality of her life but if she can get through it it will be worth it.
I know exactly how you feel, its horrific wondering whether or not you're doing the right thing and seeing a beloved bun in such a horrible state. But in no way are you being cruel keeping her alive, please be assured of that.
Is there another bunny savvy vet near to you? Maybe a second opinion would help put your mind at ease and get a fresh perspective. To be honest I think your vet is giving up abit too soon, just my opinion though.
You can also call Bristol Rabbit Clinic and ask to speak to one of the vets and see what they think, could even get them to speak to your vet
xxxxxxxxx
Graeme27Uk
Warren Scout
She has had panacur as well as well as an anti-inflamatory.
If I put her in a padded cage then it would have to be an indoor cage as if I padded the hutch Oscar would shred it within minutes. She does have lots of soft hay to fall on and she doesn't wander about that much when she is in her hutch. I don't really want to separate her and Oscar as it could and probably would break their bond with no guarantee that it would come back.
Also, now having twins in the house space is a premium and so having an indoor cage would make things awkward.
Maybe I should give her to a rescue though I doubt they would want her as she wouldn't be rehomed.
As for rabbit savvy vets, the one I go to is the one all the other vets recommend in the area when it comes to small animals. He has an interest in them but I wouldn't say he is a specialist. He is a good vet though and I do trust him, though on this case I am torn about whether to follow his advice or not.
It's been almost 5 or 6 weeks now and no real progress. She just seems to get worse.
If I put her in a padded cage then it would have to be an indoor cage as if I padded the hutch Oscar would shred it within minutes. She does have lots of soft hay to fall on and she doesn't wander about that much when she is in her hutch. I don't really want to separate her and Oscar as it could and probably would break their bond with no guarantee that it would come back.
Also, now having twins in the house space is a premium and so having an indoor cage would make things awkward.
Maybe I should give her to a rescue though I doubt they would want her as she wouldn't be rehomed.
As for rabbit savvy vets, the one I go to is the one all the other vets recommend in the area when it comes to small animals. He has an interest in them but I wouldn't say he is a specialist. He is a good vet though and I do trust him, though on this case I am torn about whether to follow his advice or not.
It's been almost 5 or 6 weeks now and no real progress. She just seems to get worse.
Gemmapookie
Wise Old Thumper
Hmmm it is really tough, I really feel for you and Cookie
Why not start a thread of your own telling Cookies story and asking for peoples stories on their head tilt buns (cause, treatment, duration, outcome etc) and ask what advise they have for you? It might help you to make a decision if you hear about other peoples head tilt buns aswell.
In my opinion it would be such a shame for her to go to a rescue and I also think its worth fighting for a little longer, but that really is just my opinion. I know that you will make the right decision for her as you obviously care about her alot.
Just one more thought, is she rolling quite alot? If so it might be wise to seperate her from Oscar to avoid him getting injured by her flailing legs. I had to seperate Mimi from Timmy but they could still see and smell eachother so didnt lose their bond. Is there anyway you can have her in a seperate padded cage next to Oscars hutch?
Please feel free to keep asking questions and venting to me, I'll help in any way I can. I know that if it wasnt for alot of the people on here encouraging me to keep going I may well have given up on Mimi thinking it was the kindest thing to do. You should see her now though, THERE IS HOPE for Cookie, I truly believe that xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Graeme27Uk
Warren Scout
Sorry for hijacking your post.
Elena
Wise Old Thumper
Hi,
It was my bunny who I was advised to PTS. That was two weeks in to his treatment however, and we were seeing improvement, so we declined. I guess you have to go with your gut and what YOU as the owner see, not what a vet sees for five minutes. Is bunny taking some interest in food? Is she still interested in things? Is she still fighting?
Mischa was fighting. He didn't give up. We could see that even though it was subtle. He'd still eat treats, he'd still try to right himself, he still flopped out on my chest (only place he could get comfortable initially). We also saw that he was starting to roll less but his head tilt didn't right itself for some time.
Now he is the most adorable rabbit. He's not as agile and has quite a large dewlap from his head being tilted so bad, but he loves human contact, adores the other three, loves his food and is just generally a very happy, trusting bunny.
A few weeks after the initial day we found him twisted and rolling... (this was after some improvement, I never took any photos when he was at his worst)
About three or four months after first symptoms...
It was my bunny who I was advised to PTS. That was two weeks in to his treatment however, and we were seeing improvement, so we declined. I guess you have to go with your gut and what YOU as the owner see, not what a vet sees for five minutes. Is bunny taking some interest in food? Is she still interested in things? Is she still fighting?
Mischa was fighting. He didn't give up. We could see that even though it was subtle. He'd still eat treats, he'd still try to right himself, he still flopped out on my chest (only place he could get comfortable initially). We also saw that he was starting to roll less but his head tilt didn't right itself for some time.
Now he is the most adorable rabbit. He's not as agile and has quite a large dewlap from his head being tilted so bad, but he loves human contact, adores the other three, loves his food and is just generally a very happy, trusting bunny.
A few weeks after the initial day we found him twisted and rolling... (this was after some improvement, I never took any photos when he was at his worst)
About three or four months after first symptoms...
Gemmapookie
Wise Old Thumper
Graeme,
No worries about hi-jacking my thread, Im glad it can help someone.
How is she today?? It has gone on for a very long time, but the thing Im worried about is if she was just treated with Baytril as a precautionnary measure instead of attacking infection full on with a more appropriate antibiotic, it might just be that she hasnt had the right treatment yet if you see what I mean? :?
Bicillin is great for such a stubborn infection so hopefully you'll see an effect soon ish, if its going to have one. Like I said, maybe ask your vet about Meclizone or Stemitil aswell to help with her balance xxxxxx
No worries about hi-jacking my thread, Im glad it can help someone.
How is she today?? It has gone on for a very long time, but the thing Im worried about is if she was just treated with Baytril as a precautionnary measure instead of attacking infection full on with a more appropriate antibiotic, it might just be that she hasnt had the right treatment yet if you see what I mean? :?
Bicillin is great for such a stubborn infection so hopefully you'll see an effect soon ish, if its going to have one. Like I said, maybe ask your vet about Meclizone or Stemitil aswell to help with her balance xxxxxx
Graeme27Uk
Warren Scout
Had her second injection of Bicillin today. The vet is giving her a 7 day course of Bicillin.
If there is no improvement then I think its most likely that she will have to be pts as she can't continue as she is, its not really fair on her as she is completely disorientated and not really having any sort of fun anymore. Plus she gets really stressed when she rolls over.
If there is no improvement then I think its most likely that she will have to be pts as she can't continue as she is, its not really fair on her as she is completely disorientated and not really having any sort of fun anymore. Plus she gets really stressed when she rolls over.
Kermit
Wise Old Thumper
I have been on holiday, so have not seen this.
I have to say that i disagree with the PTS option. Bunnies CAN recover totally from this, and even if they are left with head tilt etc, they can have a great quality of life.
If a bun is eating & drinking then i feel that they have the fight in themselves and want to try to get over this.
I do hope you gove your bun a chance x
