Unusual mycobactrial infection of GI tract presenting as dysautonomia.

Judy I know this thread was being spammed recently, whether by some obnoxious person or a "web bot"...is it possible portions of the thread have been cut and pasted and randomly circulated to spread some kind of panic?

If so, and I'd hate to say it, but perhaps RU's security protocols could be upped to make this thread at least less accessible to the public. I noticed even the general chat was locked out to unregistered viewers recently when I tried to show my daughter the holiday decor thread...it's there for members but not for anyone just passing through.

I am sorry there's so much still on your plate. I wish there we're something I could do to help. (((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))

Jenova said:

I really hope it's not gone viral! :shock:
My guess would be the vets and others dealing with working all this out have been asking around, including GPs. And your friend knows how knowledgeable you are about rabbits so has asked you.

This wasn't enquires from the general public was it? That's pretty ridiculous as Thumper is the only rabbit known to have had this.

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I hadn't thought that it might be "professional enquiries". Obviously we talk about tricky diagnoses together. We're both steeped in the medical ethic of preserving confidentiality, so we never ever divulge any information which could identify the "patient", even to each other.

I had phoned my own GP (a totally different practice) the previous evening, purely so he had plenty of opportunity to check the literature in his own time about animal/human spread of various species of mycobacteria, & how to proceed depending on the typing, while we waited for identification of Thumper's species. It's a very obscure subject for a GP. I was trying to be thoughtful, & not put him on the spot in the middle of a busy surgery in the future.

My friend was giving me a sharp rap across the knuckles for causing unnecessary alarm.

I'd had a chat with the neighbour whose dog had eaten loads of Thumper's wastes. The dog is in the prime of health. As he said "She could pick up TB from eating badger or fox poops at any time. Just to bear it in mind as a remote possibility if there are any future probs & let them know which species it is."
He got it in 1.

Judy, throughout this whilst trying to come to terms with your loss, you have been doing your level best to make sure everyone concerned has the information needed about Thumper's illness. Some may see that as unnecessary alarm but I am sure most would see it as totally responsible! People always fear what they don't understand and it leads to confusion but at the end of the I think you were right to have contacted those you have.

I think TB is one of these things that people hear and panic even though the chances of infection in this case are so remote. My Mum's Dad died from TB at the age of 32 leaving Gran with a 5 and 2 year old. She actually met him when she was nursing in a TB hospital and nursed him through all the years of his illness yet she never contracted it.

What a disaster with your garden. Why is it they cannot fix the problem permanently? Much more disease is likely to have come from that than Thumper! I hope that there is a permanent fix somewhere in the future for it.

I think about you often and how you are coping. I am pleased that the ashes are no longer causing you even more suffering. It is no wonder that you struggled with them and your dislike of his name on the box is totally understandable. Take care xx

MimzMum said:

Judy I know this thread was being spammed recently, whether by some obnoxious person or a "web bot"...is it possible portions of the thread have been cut and pasted and randomly circulated to spread some kind of panic?

If so, and I'd hate to say it, but perhaps RU's security protocols could be upped to make this thread at least less accessible to the public. I noticed even the general chat was locked out to unregistered viewers recently when I tried to show my daughter the holiday decor thread...it's there for members but not for anyone just passing through.

I am sorry there's so much still on your plate. I wish there we're something I could do to help. (((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))))

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I don't know what's going on, but thank you for giving me some possibilities off forum, the which relieves my distress a little.
Thanks for the hugs too. I need them.

Aliduncan1 In a word - exactly.
They could fix the sewer problem. We just need about 30 yards of parallel sewer to take the extra from a new estate & perhaps an extra pump. "It costs too much". You are correct that there is a health risk, but the law says there isn't. (A clever barrister using flawed science) They know there's a health risk, & that we can't prove an individual case. They don't care a jot about our homes & gardens but virtually wet themselves if it gets out onto the pavement. AFAIK it won't give any probs with the bugs which cause TB.

oh no, i didn't know thumper had passed away. i'm so very sorry. i bet he felt so comforted you being there with him at the end. i know how much of a special bond you had. sleep tight thumper. xxx

thoughts with you judy xxxx

Judy,
you were exactly right to contact your GP - they know you and can appreciate risk for your individual situation and give you objective guidance. We still need more results to know the human impact but few strains pose any risk at all, all of us remain well and there is no indication of any transfer. I am a firm believer in getting all information before panicking! If you feel anyone is getting anxious then they can contact me to discuss things but again, the human health risk is negligible.
The sewage overflow is a far higher risk to humans!
Marie

judy, i never knew your little boy had passed too i am so sorry, my heads been everywhere.

You were the best bunny mummy he could have ever had, and had a amazing full life despite his illness. He was a truely amazing bun. But i still stand to what i say, he was a strong boy because you were strong for him.

My thoughts are with you, i know how you must feel, completely I hope you are well

Becci xx

Judy, been thinking of you lots and just checking in to see how you are...hope all is well. Sent you a message on here the other day, hope you received it okay. ((((((((((hugs)))))))))

Thank you & bless you all.
I think I'm just experiencing what everyone else goes through, & I've just got to get on with it.
Perhaps we had so many narrow squeaks when I thought I'd lose him, & he got through, it took longer for me to fully realise that he'd gone.
I also think that we all grieve differently. I try to have a time for being tearful about it, & plod on with the huge backlog of house chores the rest of the time.
It feels odd not trying to think from a rabbit viewpoint. The foxes were vocal last night. I still wake up to make sure he isn't frightened, & ready to reassure him!

thumps_ said:

Thank you & bless you all.
I think I'm just experiencing what everyone else goes through, & I've just got to get on with it.
Perhaps we had so many narrow squeaks when I thought I'd lose him, & he got through, it took longer for me to fully realise that he'd gone.
I also think that we all grieve differently. I try to have a time for being tearful about it, & plod on with the huge backlog of house chores the rest of the time.
It feels odd not trying to think from a rabbit viewpoint. The foxes were vocal last night. I still wake up to make sure he isn't frightened, & ready to reassure him!

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I was so much the same when I lost Lopsie.
I was constantly checking the garden as he free ranged and it took me so long to stop the habit. I used to wake up hearing bangs too.

*hugs*

We have the final lab report.
The most likely bug causing Thumper's illness is Mycobacterium avium hominisuis. It has never been reported in rabbits before.
(I'm sorry but it doesn't translate into basic English - that's it's name)

May I thank all the contributers to this thread for their wonderful support throughout our long battle.
May I also thank Tamsin & RU admin for allowing me to keep a detailed diary, on a forum accessible to all, including any researchers in this field.

Above all I want to thank Marie Kubiak, the vet who 1st understood that he had a chronic progressive gut condition.
Brilliant clinical management Marie, & deep understanding of how to reduce the deleterious effects of stress in rabbits, thereby giving him an extra 3years of quality life, which was 50% of his life span to him.
Thankyou also for supporting me in my zany idea of feeding him wild plants & leaves, & encouraging me to trust his instincts.

I think it's reasonable to say that together we found something which is a major help to all rabbits with gut hypomotility issues whatever the underlying cause.

RIP my dear little fella. You were the friend of a lifetime to me. That one little rabbit life should have helped so many, both rabbits & humans is quite remarkable. You have been an inspiration & example to rabbit & human alike

ETA They are using genetic sequencing to try to identify the specie of mycobacterium 100% accurately. It has been totally unexpected (obviously) so we may not have enough material to do so.

thumps_ said:

We have the final lab report.
The most likely bug causing Thumper's illness is Mycobacterium avium hominisuis. It has never been reported in rabbits before.
(I'm sorry but it doesn't translate into basic English - that's it's name)

May I thank all the contributers to this thread for their wonderful support throughout our long battle.
May I also thank Tamsin & RU admin for allowing me to keep a detailed diary, on a forum accessible to all, including any researchers in this field.

Above all I want to thank Marie Kubiak, the vet who 1st understood that he had a chronic progressive gut condition.
Brilliant clinical management Marie, & deep understanding of how to reduce the deleterious effects of stress in rabbits, thereby giving him an extra 3years of quality life, which was 50% of his life span to him.
Thankyou also for supporting me in my zany idea of feeding him wild plants & leaves, & encouraging me to trust his instincts.

I think it's reasonable to say that together we found something which is a major help to all rabbits with gut hypomotility issues whatever the underlying cause.

RIP my dear little fella. You were the friend of a lifetime to me. That one little rabbit life should have helped so many, both rabbits & humans is quite remarkable. You have been an inspiration & example to rabbit & human alike

ETA They are using genetic sequencing to try to identify the specie of mycobacterium 100% accurately. It has been totally unexpected (obviously) so we may not have enough material to do so.

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Oh my, what a medical epic this has been. Thumper will have taught so many people so much. He will always remain a very special Rabbit xx

Hello Judy,
I had to double check the thread title as this last post was a bit confusing. But I am glad to see that a final conclusion has been reached, even if it is hard for a layperson such as myself to understand.
Not surprising he had an uncommon illness as he was an uncommon rabbit...and that's a conservative description.

I haven't posted here much but have been thinking of you and wondering how you're doing. In fact I'm only on so early here today (for me) as I've been up with Mimzy who is not well. I can't look at him and not think of Thumper...if only for the similarities in their appearances and the degree to which each of them has hold of our hearts.

God bless you and Benjie and may you both have a wonderful evening.

Hi, thumps, and Mimzy! A familiar face on the web

I was referred to this thread by a fellow member here. I have read a good portion of its beginning, middle and end. I'm at a loss. and I am so, so very sorry.

My Boon seems to be dealing with something very similar to what your beloved Thumps had gone through before it was finally resolved after he binkeyed over the rainbow.

I need help. Very badly. My Boon is just like Thumps. They found Clostridium when they looked at his poops under a microscope. He did not have Clostridium in his stool prior to being put on Bactrim for 2 weeks in the very beginning of November this year after a very bad bout of Stasis that he developed 1 month after a neuter and during a very bad molt. Ever since, his cecals have been water, with his regular poops being pretty normal, and his belly constantly full of gas and water - feels doughey. Low appetite. Dental check is fine, premolars were slightly overgrown, not so bad as to cause a problem but were never the less trimmed anyway. He will only eat small amounts of hay and a teeny half teaspoon of pellets per day, occasionally some dark green leafy veggies (endive, cilantro, escarole). I've force feed him Critical Care daily for the last 3 weeks now. He goes through many bouts of GI Stasis during the year and he is only a year old. However he always pulled through them wonderfully except for his last bout in late October. He gets snuffly when this happens. I rescued him as an infant from an irresponsible pet store run by teenaged people in October 2011. His siblings were also rescued. His 1 brother deals with chronic Snuffles and has had 2 bouts of brief stasis that didn't last any longer than a couple days, his other sibling's health is fine.

He's seen 1 exotic vet (during a time when he wasn't symptomatic, eating like a little piggy and pooping lots) who said the only findings were a mildly swollen cecum and low blood serum albumin.

Is Mycobacteria caused by Clostridium? What causes it? Are they sure this is what caused thumps to go over the rainbow so soon in life?

The exotic vet is stumped and refuses to see Boon anymore. Our local vet says this is beyond her scope of practice and suggested we put him to sleep. another rabbit experienced (EXPENSIVE) vet down in the big city is also stumped.

He started Flagyl for the Clostrdial infection yesterday and has only gone downhill since. He is in full stasis today, but he also began molting a few days ago too, so I don't know what is causing what.

You have my deepest, sincerest condolences and sympathies on a very personal level, thumps mommy. He was so lucky to have you.

I hope someone can please help me and my Boon.

Here is my thread with Boon's history written out into three consecutive posts on pages 1 & 2:
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?371012-Help!-Prescribed-Flagyl-for-my-Bun!

In addition to my post above^^^^

I also want to mention that in May of this past year I had a severe bacterial throat infection that presented as Strep, but I had a Strep test done and it was not strep. After a month of a deliriously high fever, I saw an ENT doc (ear, nose throat specialist) who said my lymph nodes were so big he thought maybe I had throat cancer.

I was on Amoxicillin the whole time and stumped doctors

I did not respond to it - but the ENT prescribed me Omnicef and that cured it within 2 days - but I know bunnies can't have cephalosporins

Oh I will hurt so much more if I caused this

Boon does suffer from intermitten Snuffles and they got VERY BAD in the last week as he has gone downhill and has this Closdtridial infection

What should I ask my vet to test Boon for? Please, anybunny....

I have no experience or advice but did not want to read and run. I hope that someone can help you with Boon, he is very lucky to have you fighting for him and sounds like you are doing everything possible.

Has your vet considered the use of a gut stimulant for Boon?

Has he had xrays/ultrasounds of the gut, has he had blood tests?

nessar said:

Has your vet considered the use of a gut stimulant for Boon?

Has he had xrays/ultrasounds of the gut, has he had blood tests?

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There is A LOT more information about Boon here


http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?371012-Help!-Prescribed-Flagyl-for-my-Bun!

Nova, thank God you made it here! I had meant to redirect you but was having trouble finding this original thread.
Off to read your other post. I'm sorry to hear Boon hasn't improved. Hugs to you and more healing vibes for Boon.