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Breeding Does Living Together

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troyster

New Kit
Hi there

I've been keeping rabbits for a while now - specifically two New Zealand white, unspayed doe sisters - and I have decided to breed from them. Now, these girls have been living together quite happily, but I'm unsure what to expect of them when they become pregnant. Is it just a case of keeping an eye, and if they start to fight then separate them? Are they even likely to fight?

Basically I've no experience of the difference being pregnant makes to rabbits (though I have huge experience with the change in my wife's moods when pregnant :D ) Your wise counsel would be greatly appreciated.

If it helps - the does live together, sharing a nesting area (though there's room for another easily), an indoor play area, and a large outside run. They're both well-tempered and, as I say, have grown up together.

Thanks

Troyster
 
:wave: When you say you've been keeping rabbits for a while do you mean you have had just these two doe's ? It doesn't say how old they are?
 
Hi - good point. At present I only have the two does. They're ten months old, and are large girls! I am thinking of buying a Californian buck (kept in a completely different area) to breed with them, but I want to be sure I know what to expect before I do anything.
 
I know of a few people who succesfully keep a doe with a litter with a doe who dosent have a litter, and even one who (accidentally i may add) had 2 does each with a litter living together.

It seems to vary between rabbits though, and i wouldnt want to be in the position were one took a dislike to her sisters kits.
 
It's possible, but there's always a risk. Rabbits often got very hormal when pregnant, and she could turn on her hutch mate, if not the hutch mate could easily harm the babies. Then again I've heard of it being done, with the non-pregnant one even helping to nest build.

Just so you know, the forum is extremely anti breeding
 
I had noticed a slight slant in that direction, though hadn't realised it was extreme. I'm guessing that's because the RSPCA end up with so many unwanted baby rabbits. . . or that they get palmed off onto irresponsible owners - both things that I'm very eager to avoid!

If it makes anyone feel happier, I breed goats as well :?

As it sounds like such an 'unknown quantity', it may be worth taking one of the does to visit a friendly buck before I think about buying one myself.

Any other thoughts?
 
troyster said:
I had noticed a slight slant in that direction, though hadn't realised it was extreme. I'm guessing that's because the RSPCA end up with so many unwanted baby rabbits. . . or that they get palmed off onto irresponsible owners - both things that I'm very eager to avoid!

If it makes anyone feel happier, I breed goats as well :?

As it sounds like such an 'unknown quantity', it may be worth taking one of the does to visit a friendly buck before I think about buying one myself.

Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...

:wave: I think Demismith being that she is a moderator on another forum could have worded that better by saying that this a 'rescue' orientated forum rather than saying extremely anti breeding which sounds negative for the sake of it.

Your right in your interpretations there are lots of rescues overflowing atm with buns awaiting homes and no shortages in the pet shops, am I naive assuming your breeding for pets rather than meat? The same applies to your goats - why are you breeding them?

Whichever way you look at it, the law as it stands is impotent in terms of protecting animals from anyone deciding to 'breed' them regardless of finances, accomodation, time, knowledge etc so it's a fact that we all have to live with until the law catches up with the fact that as a civilised society there has to be legislation applied, in an ideal world we could trust people to use common sense, compassion and logic before embarking on the 'breeding' bandwagon - sadly it's been proven this isn't working - no disrespect to you intended but, time after time people 'choose' to do this without really considering the animals welfare - it is actually at the bottom of the list of priorities.

I don't know why you've decided to do it but, you must think carefully because at best you will have a large number of healthy rabbits and your doe alive - at worst you will lose your doe and maybe some kits.

There are forums specifically for breeders, if your breeding for meat purposes then I think perhaps you will honestly get want you want from them.
 
Firstly welcome to the forum!
There are a lot of rescues on this forum, who have to deal with the consequences of accidental and irresponsible breeding (not saying that you are one of those!) but the forum is rescue biased.
I can't help you with the answers to your questions, I'm afraid, but will ask why you are wanting to breed them? (in an interested, not accusatory, way!)
 
Tentatively I reply 'to eat'. The same reason I breed my goats (and keep pigs occasionally).

I don't like to eat meat from the supermarket, as I don't know what standard of welfare has been employed - or rather, having seen a few farms, I do! All the meat that my family eat is produced in house, or at least on the premises, and I can ensure that my animals are all looked after well and enjoy their lives.

While I'm picking up the vibe that most on this forum keep rabbits as pets only, which is great, I would rather have advice from you guys that from rabbit farmers. I visited a rabbit farm a few years ago and was HORRIFIED at the living conditions!
 
troyster said:
I had noticed a slight slant in that direction, though hadn't realised it was extreme. I'm guessing that's because the RSPCA end up with so many unwanted baby rabbits. . . or that they get palmed off onto irresponsible owners - both things that I'm very eager to avoid!

If it makes anyone feel happier, I breed goats as well :?

As it sounds like such an 'unknown quantity', it may be worth taking one of the does to visit a friendly buck before I think about buying one myself.
Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...

See from a pet owners perspective that is horrendous, we all know rabbits prefer not to travel and a buck locked in a 'breeding' hutch is likely to be 3ft if its lucky - Defra regs are 0.56msq and I've seen Californians and NZ whites confined to these prisons 24/7 for the 'owners' pleasure. The whole experience will be far from pleasurable for the doe so don't kid yourself that she will 'enjoy' herself.:wave:
 
troyster said:
Tentatively I reply 'to eat'. The same reason I breed my goats (and keep pigs occasionally).

I don't like to eat meat from the supermarket, as I don't know what standard of welfare has been employed - or rather, having seen a few farms, I do! All the meat that my family eat is produced in house, or at least on the premises, and I can ensure that my animals are all looked after well and enjoy their lives.

While I'm picking up the vibe that most on this forum keep rabbits as pets only, which is great, I would rather have advice from you guys that from rabbit farmers. I visited a rabbit farm a few years ago and was HORRIFIED at the living conditions!
Click to expand...

Thankyou for being honest, I will be honest with you, I can't have a conversation with you regarding eating rabbits anymore than I could have a conversation with an oriental person who eats dog. So I bow out now goodnight :)
 
troyster said:
Tentatively I reply 'to eat'. The same reason I breed my goats (and keep pigs occasionally).

I don't like to eat meat from the supermarket, as I don't know what standard of welfare has been employed - or rather, having seen a few farms, I do! All the meat that my family eat is produced in house, or at least on the premises, and I can ensure that my animals are all looked after well and enjoy their lives.

While I'm picking up the vibe that most on this forum keep rabbits as pets only, which is great, I would rather have advice from you guys that from rabbit farmers. I visited a rabbit farm a few years ago and was HORRIFIED at the living conditions!
Click to expand...

ok, well I suppose that show standerd hasnt got much to do with that:lol:
I would find a good NZ or calafornian rabbit breeder and talk to them....most of them eat thier stock anyway even if they are for show so should have some info, im sorry but i dont know much about it.
I understand were you are coming from, and i think to me were you are getting your meat is a whole lot better than were some people get it.
 
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VickiP said:
Thankyou for being honest, I will be honest with you, I can't have a conversation with you regarding eating rabbits anymore than I could have a conversation with an oriental person who eats dog. So I bow out now goodnight :)
Click to expand...

Didn't want to read and run, but i'm going to have to agree with VickiP and bow out myself, can't talk to you about breeding rabbits for meat:wave:
 
well i must say i applaud you for being honest, i have my bunnies just as pets but i would buy rabbit meat from my butchers! i dont really see why people get upset, its just like eating chicken of beef or lamb! I am glad you are going to try and breed with the rabbits welfare and conditions in mind. Although i would like to add that I have heard that if you have two pregnant does sometimes on of the does will kill the others litter to make way for her own. I hope you have every sucess :)
 
troyster said:
Hi there

I've been keeping rabbits for a while now - specifically two New Zealand white, unspayed doe sisters - and I have decided to breed from them. Now, these girls have been living together quite happily, but I'm unsure what to expect of them when they become pregnant. Is it just a case of keeping an eye, and if they start to fight then separate them? Are they even likely to fight?

Basically I've no experience of the difference being pregnant makes to rabbits (though I have huge experience with the change in my wife's moods when pregnant :D ) Your wise counsel would be greatly appreciated.

If it helps - the does live together, sharing a nesting area (though there's room for another easily), an indoor play area, and a large outside run. They're both well-tempered and, as I say, have grown up together.

Thanks

Troyster
Click to expand...



=/////// Wrong!
 
emilybun said:
well i must say i applaud you for being honest, i have my bunnies just as pets but i would buy rabbit meat from my butchers! i dont really see why people get upset, its just like eating chicken of beef or lamb! I am glad you are going to try and breed with the rabbits welfare and conditions in mind. Although i would like to add that I have heard that if you have two pregnant does sometimes on of the does will kill the others litter to make way for her own. I hope you have every sucess :)
Click to expand...

I think when people have animals as 'pets' and given the rabbit is the UK's 3rd most popular pet, making millions for vets and pet supplies industries - the thought of someone 'DIY' necking and skinning and eating is upsetting, even people who have a 'pet' cow or chicken or lamb it's highly unlikely to live in their house as some of the rabbits on here do, also I don't think most omnivores would cull their own chicken, lamb, cows or breed them in their back yard, in fact a lot of farmers don't eat their own livestock for this reason - even though they aren't pets and provide a 'living' for the farmer they sometimes still are unable to consume their own animals.

I also think the significant thing that upsets people about rabbits being bred for meat is that regardless of how well intentioned someone is, often the conditions are dire - they are housed in tiny accomodation and don't get any interaction that a pet would get - as Mandy said we all keep them as pets so we know how intelligent, responsive, gentle they are (mostly) and it is upsetting to think of them reared to just 3 months and then necked.

I've always said I can understand the principle of eating rabbit to sustain human life in an African village for example where conditions for rearing other meat animals are dire, I can't understand it as a choice in this country when it's not necessity given that the animal doesn't provide a lot of meat it doesn't seem cost effective even. With other farm animals like chickens, cows etc there are a lot of other products from the culling of these animals and hopefully not much wasteage, I think people do have a right to choose but, there should be legislation in place to protect the animals welfare and ensure the person is trained properly to perform the culling as humanely as possible.

There are oriental cultures that eat dog and cats I think, in theory why shouldn't an immigrant be allowed to come here and breed them on their land for meat? It wouldn't be allowed because our culture determines that these animals are not part of the 'food' chain, I genuinely think that in time rabbit will no longer be part of the UK food chain, it will die out as it should in line with the fact they are a pet and not required in the food chain, the fact people are eating them now is just still an attachment to the past when they were required 'through the war' etc as a food source, there are still some old folk now passing on their experience to younger people - it doesn't mean it's right or necessary IMO, equally not necessarily wrong but, inappropriate yes it is IMO.:wave:
 
emilybun said:
well i must say i applaud you for being honest, i have my bunnies just as pets but i would buy rabbit meat from my butchers! i dont really see why people get upset, its just like eating chicken of beef or lamb! I am glad you are going to try and breed with the rabbits welfare and conditions in mind. Although i would like to add that I have heard that if you have two pregnant does sometimes on of the does will kill the others litter to make way for her own. I hope you have every sucess :)
Click to expand...

I agree, but then I'm vegan.

I would be very wary about them raising a litter together - it does work sometimes. I had 2 does arrive here that gave birth the same night - as I didn't know for sure who Mum was, I left them together - successfully - although the litter was scattered several times, I only lost one baby bun. It is quite common for another doe or the buck to kill the babes.

As far as eating your buns goes - I actually think that is better than eating 2p sausages from Tescos - but just cos they are your own buns doesn't mean you "know" the meat. The majority of pet buns have at some point come into contact with EC, which CAN be contracted by humans if they have a compromised immune system.

ETA: also I wouldn't agree that keeping buns alone in hutches was humane or natural either. Unspayed does have a high risk of developing cancer (something like 80%) & add to that the hormonal issues of a un-neutered doe or buck & you have a frustrated or unhappy bun
 
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I am not anti breeding, I'm anti irresponsibility.

I don't think that taking a girl to see a random buck is sensible because of the risks associatied with what that buck may be carrying, and exposing your rabbits to that.

Ideally you need to get your own, and you need to heavily quarantine him, and then breed, but by then your girls may be too old to breed from (that won't take long, they need to be bred for the first time while at an age that seems young to us. I'm unsure exactly of what the age is for a NZ white, but would suspect maybe 11 months or so because they are a bigger breed, but I'm unsure if that is accurate, so please check out on that).

Leaving two together and breeding them seems like a huge risk to those bunnies to me.

Personally, with regards to meat breeding, what is most important to me is that an animal has a good life, and a humane death. It doesn't matter to me what someone else choose to do with their animal once it is dead. If you breed and raise these yourself then at least you will know they have had a good life.
 
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