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Soaked pellets for a rabbit with dental problems?

maria-n

New Kit
Hi,


Our rabbit Luigi, neutered, 5.5 yo, large dwarf, has dental problems (right down molars near about absent), he has been treated for that in January by the vet.

Before his teeth were done, he got quite skinny and even got into stasis and I had to force feed him to pull him through, but since then he's improving and he is lively (apart from a few days when he was really bad, he is nearly always a happy rabbit).

The advice was only two tbsp pellets a day and he must eat hay to keep his teeth as much healthy as possible. He gets Science Selective, which he likes very much, though he does not finish them completely.

Sadly he almost entirely refuses hay, even when I give him no pellets at all to force him to eat hay. I've tried several types of hay and Readigrass, but to no avail. When I stopped the pellets he got very poor, sitting with his back pulled up and had bad poo, with lots of slime. So I felt forced to continue the pellets, also because he became even more thin.

He gets veg too, broccoli, carrots, fresh grass, dandelion leaves. Those he eats well, though the grass he leaves half of the time. He drinks a lot of water, though it varies from day to day.

Now for my question: accidentally his pellets got soaked (he threw his water bowl) and I noticed he LOVED the soaked pellets. He ate all of them in no time. They were not entirely mushy, the water was not so much that the pellets lost shape. Since then I'm giving him half of his pellets with a little water and he devours them. Finally he is also producing more and better poo and appears to be gaining weight, plus that he's clearly getting more energetic (like I said, he is always happy, but tends to be a bit lazy).

My worry is that this is not good for his teeth, he doesn't have to chew enough. Effectively he only has to chew his veg and a bit of grass and the one or two dry pellets he takes.
I understand that these soaked pellets are very easy for him to eat, with his missing molars and I am also very happy that he appears to be doing better than he did for quite some time.

What would be your advice: should I be 'hard' and consequent, trying to get him on the proper diet - give him only a bit of dry pellets and lots of hay, veg, grass, knowing that at least initially he will almost stop eating and lose weight?

Or should I consider that indeed this is more easy for him and he is doing very well now, in every way, so I should just continue with soaked pellets next to hay (which he most likely won't eat), veg, grass and regularly visit the vet to deal with tooth problems which may soon arise with this diet?

Sadly his girlfriend died in December, when we were with my parents in Holland and family was taking care. As soon as he is really well and the weather a bit better, we will try to find him a new friend from a rescue. Till then he is sitting next to me in the living room, roaming free. I'm sure, being lonely, while he has never been alone before, did also not help with all the problems we encountered since January. Though he seems clearly on the way up now.

Sorry for this very long post.

Thank you in advance for any advice!
 
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Hi:wave:I would personally carry on with soaking the pellets if he is gaining weight, there are quite a few buns on here that don't eat hay, and especially if your bun has lost some teeth then he may find it hard to eat and grind the hay, i think it's better to encourage him to eat as he finds easiest in these circumstances, hope this helps x
 
Hi:wave:I would personally carry on with soaking the pellets if he is gaining weight, there are quite a few buns on here that don't eat hay, and especially if your bun has lost some teeth then he may find it hard to eat and grind the hay, i think it's better to encourage him to eat as he finds easiest in these circumstances, hope this helps x

I agree with continuing to soak his pellets so he will gain weight.
My rabbit Julie ate soaked pellets for months until her dentals finally allowed her to eat without choking. She is a fast gobbler and because of her teeth she didn't chew enough and choked on pellets and hay. It took two dentals until her teeth were good enough so she wouldn't choke. So I soaked her pellets and soaked her hay to soften it.
She now eats her pellets dry but I steam her hay by putting it in a big bowl and pouring boiling water over it. I then put the cover on for a few minutes then pour the water off. She eats hay by the mouth full and still choked but never chokes on it steamed.
The reason I mention this is you might try steaming his hay to soften it just in case he doesn't eat it because it is hard for him to chew.
I have 2 other ideas to help get him to eat hay. Julie loves hay now but didn't like it when we first got her.
Buy a can /or tin if you are in the UK of 100% pumpkin and coat some hay with it. Pumpkin is safe for rabbits. I use it for Julie's meds daily. Julie's vet suggested it.I think most rabbits like it. In order to really get all the pumpkin he will have to eat the hay. Also if he likes oats sprinkle some in his hay so he has to search for them and he might eat some hay. Julie's vet said a few porridge oats are good to help gain weight.
 
I've had Pebbles nearly 3 years (adopted, no history as he was abandoned). he had a huge adominal tumor when I got him, then soon realised he was also a dental bun, with malloclusion (possibly genetic, or due to previous diet of no hay and muesli, or a combination of both). His "normal" weight is about 2.2 KG.

Pebbles didn't eat much hay (if any) but it was difficult to tell as he liked to have his nose in the hay (nudging it most likely) but he lost an awful amount of weight and went into stasis. he went to vets and vet did a molar burr on him and told me to cut out pellets and just give him hay...that's when I realised he didn't eat hay! He went down to 1.6Kg and went into stasis again.

I realised then he wasn't going to eat hay, and no amount of starving him of pellets was going to make him eat hay...he would just starve!

My soultion was to make sure his teeth were Ok, then feed him dried SS high fibre pellets, as much as he wanted until his weight went up to "normal" again. I weighed him every week and then determined the exact amount of SS pellets he needed a day (for Pebbles that was 3 meals of 20g a day) after 3 years, he started to nibble tiny bits of oat wheat and barley hay. Whenever I try to slowly reduce his pellets down, his weight drops again.

After a dental, Pebbles refuses dry food, but loves pellets dipped quickly in water (so they are not too soggy).

I would suggest givng Luigi a dry pellets if he can manage them, and weigh them first to see how much he is actually eating, and record this. If he is not eating enough SS pellets to increase his weight, then feed him moistened pellets (again, pre weigh them to see how much he eats) . Gradually, decrease the amount of moistened pellets and increase the amount of dry food. Also weigh luigi weekly ( I pre-weigh a cardboard pet carrier, then weigh bunny in box on kitchen scales..then subtract weight of box) and keep a record of buns weight.

After a while, you will start to get used to the feel of Luigi...shoulder bones and back bone will become less prominent. Get used to the feel of his back..this, combined with regular weighing will help to catch any loss of weight in the future.

I would also keep fruit to a minimum, instead give him tough leafy veg or weeds such as oxtongue, brambles etc. dried herbs like http://www.thehayexperts.co.uk/burns-meadow-mix.html or http://www.thehayexperts.co.uk/country-garden-herbs.html (other than lettuce)

Do persist with trying different hays, but don't rely on the fact that he should eat hay..Luigi doesn't know that. Try readigrass, fresh grass (small amounts to start with if he isn't used to it) hay cookies or hay cubes. Sometimes mixing in dried herbs in hay may help ( Pebbles just picks out the herbs) or mixing in grass in a bowl of his favourite leafy veg.
 
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Buy a can /or tin if you are in the UK of 100% pumpkin and coat some hay with it. Pumpkin is safe for rabbits. I use it for Julie's meds daily. Julie's vet suggested it.I think most rabbits like it. In order to really get all the pumpkin he will have to eat the hay.

This sounds a great idea, but I've never seen tinned pumpkin in the UK (but then I've never looked for it!). I wonder if tinned pumpkin isn't available, whether dipping hay in Ella's kitchen veggie baby food would have the same effect? I have some in cupboard, and will test it out on Pebbles to see if it works on him!!!:thumb:
 
Or should I consider that indeed this is more easy for him and he is doing very well now, in every way, so I should just continue with soaked pellets next to hay (which he most likely won't eat), veg, grass and regularly visit the vet to deal with tooth problems which may soon arise with this diet?

I just wanted to say, that by increasing Pebbles amount of SS pellets, I have managed to extend the amount of time in between dentals from 5-6 months to 9 months.. I think Pebbles will always have dental problems, and Luigi will probably be the same, but I have shown that SS pellets can help to keep molar spurs down to a degree. And maybe when Luigi is more comfortable, he may start to attempt more hay in the future, but I think you will have to accept that he is going to be a "non-hay eating bunny" as any small amounts of hay he might eat will probably not be significant.

Edites to add, that I bought Supreme Vet Care Plus digestive formula..which is higher in fibre, and Pebbles refuses to eat these at all..prefereing his SS pellets!
 
This sounds a great idea, but I've never seen tinned pumpkin in the UK (but then I've never looked for it!). I wonder if tinned pumpkin isn't available, whether dipping hay in Ella's kitchen veggie baby food would have the same effect? I have some in cupboard, and will test it out on Pebbles to see if it works on him!!!:thumb:

Ok.. Pebbles turned his nose up at the baby food, but I munched up a bit of banana (which he loves) and chopped some timothy & rye hay into it and gave it a good mix up. He went mad as soon as he smelt banana ...but I'm not sure whether he actually ate any of the hay, or just licked the banana off it! He eventually gave up on it and started washing himself :roll: Worth a try though!

edited to say he keeps going back to it..but i still think he is just licking off the banana lol
 
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Iif Luigi's dental problem is purely extraction, & severe wear, I can't see that hay will help him, but he must have some fibre or he'll have runny caecals (dysbiosis) & be prone to stasis.
I also think he'll have difficulty with chewey food like hay.

I've found that crispy dry safe tree leaves (melt in the mouth)- apple, hawthorn, hazel & fruiting bushes eg fruiting currents/grape vine/ raspberry/blackberry leaves very helpful maintain good gut function. By improving gut motility bunny can eat more, & maintain or gain weight.

By all means soak his pellets. This is often done for buns who have had tooth extraction or missing teeth.
I agree with high Fibre SS but he'll need to be changed to them gradually.
Many people also find that protexin fibre pellets help gut function but they're a bit expensive.

It is said, but I've no personal experience, that a bit of thyme given daily helps to prevent gum infection in older bunnies with loose or worn teeth.;)
 
Maybe tin 100% pumpkin isn't popular in the UK as pumpkin pie doesn't seem to be really popular in the UK. It is used here mostly to make pumpkin pie but I use it for many things. It is a wonderful substitute for eggs and butter/oil in many many recipes. I like it for rabbits as it has nothing added to it and has lots of fibre but is soft to eat.
Does your rabbit like rosemary? Julie loves it. I grow it so brought some to the local rabbit rescue. The rabbits either would have nothing to do with it or would go absolutely bonkers over it.
If your bunny likes it. Try it first then rub some on the hay and mix it with the hay. Rosemary has such a strong smell that all the hay will smell of it. I used it for Julie when she had stasis. It is all she would try to eat.
 
Just a quick reply, but thank you so far for the very useful and supportive replies!

I'm sorry for not replying any sooner. Was more busy today than I had expected.

Later tomorrow I hope to reply to your posts in more detail, as I loved all the tips and the support.
I've seen some very useful tips, like the steamed hay and carefully monitoring his intake and trying to increase the dry pellets.

Most important for me, is the feeling that Luigi and me are not alone in this. As I had done several searches on the forum and had found nothing of other rabbit-parents also feeding soaked pellets. Must have searched wrong, it appears. :?

Thanks again, as I'm really happy with the lovely response! :love:
 
Have you tried fresh grass? It often goes down better than hay, particularly with a bun that likes his fresh foods. Introduce in gradually but if he likes it a pile of fresh grass per day can completely replace hay!
 
Have you tried fresh grass? It often goes down better than hay, particularly with a bun that likes his fresh foods. Introduce in gradually but if he likes it a pile of fresh grass per day can completely replace hay!

Thanks for your reply! :)

Yes, e gets fresh grass daily, different varieties (stalky and several leafy types), but mostly he will just select the dandelion and leaves the rest. Today he has been on the grass himself for half an hour, but he had no interest in eating it. However, there are days that he does. So I think I just keep supplying grass, hay etc and see from day to day what he wants and what not.

Hopefully, when we'll find him a partner again in a few weeks, he'll be more enthusiastic to eat hay and grass (he never ate them well, but better than at present).
 
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