-
Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.
Bonding Time Eeeekk! FOUND BITE ON BOTH (pics)
- Thread starter jenzel5
- Start date
jenzel5
Mama Doe
I really don't know what to do. I was downstairs cleaning the living room and heard them fighting. Ran upstairs and had to separate with a broom.
They both look so tired and warn out so I don't know whether to call it quits and set new cages up next to eachother. I feel so mean and don't think this is doing any good for their mental health. I have no idea how people do it. Would it be an idea to spend time with them by sitting with them.
I could have oh help and he could hold one and we could sit next to eachother and give them attention?
I don't think I can put up with another night of having to separate all night long, they look so bedrazzled!
When your buns fought and lunged how long did it take for them to calm down? And how often did they do it?
I feel like things have gotten worse rather than better
*SIGH*
They both look so tired and warn out so I don't know whether to call it quits and set new cages up next to eachother. I feel so mean and don't think this is doing any good for their mental health. I have no idea how people do it. Would it be an idea to spend time with them by sitting with them.
I could have oh help and he could hold one and we could sit next to eachother and give them attention?
I don't think I can put up with another night of having to separate all night long, they look so bedrazzled!
When your buns fought and lunged how long did it take for them to calm down? And how often did they do it?
I feel like things have gotten worse rather than better
*SIGH*
Ah Jen I'm so sorry, your poor babies My two calmed down after a couple of days but they still squabble, so far I don't think they've caused any bleeding but they have pulled fur out, food is def still a problem for my two, sharing is just not in their nature :roll:
I don't know what to suggest, if Nic is still about she might be a bit more help cos Cass and Ruby fought a canny bit when they first got together but now they are like loves young dream.
I'm definitely no expert with bonding, I went for the chuck em in together and hope for the best but that was also because I didn't have another hutch for Pud to live in next to Pye. I think I did have them in too much space, I know when Nic did hers she reduced the space right down so they had basically a bit more space than they would in a carrier and that seemed to help a lot. It seems a shame to separate them when you've got this far, do you think you could leave them one more night with less space and see how that goes? then if you feel it still not going well separate them tomorrow for you going out on Friday cos you won't feel right leaving them....
Hopefully someone with more experience will comment, give them both a nose rub from me xxx
My two calmed down after a couple of days but they still squabble, so far I don't think they've caused any bleeding but they have pulled fur out, food is def still a problem for my two, sharing is just not in their nature :roll:I don't know what to suggest, if Nic is still about she might be a bit more help cos Cass and Ruby fought a canny bit when they first got together but now they are like loves young dream.
I'm definitely no expert with bonding, I went for the chuck em in together and hope for the best but that was also because I didn't have another hutch for Pud to live in next to Pye. I think I did have them in too much space, I know when Nic did hers she reduced the space right down so they had basically a bit more space than they would in a carrier and that seemed to help a lot. It seems a shame to separate them when you've got this far, do you think you could leave them one more night with less space and see how that goes? then if you feel it still not going well separate them tomorrow for you going out on Friday cos you won't feel right leaving them....
Hopefully someone with more experience will comment, give them both a nose rub from me xxx
Aww I'm so sorry I only had wounds like that when I tried to bond Harvey and Zero and I separated them because of it. Didn't really know much about rabbits at the time. I would separate but that's just me, are there any rescues close by who could help you? Maybe you could try PMing Janice-Arc?
I only had wounds like that when I tried to bond Harvey and Zero and I separated them because of it. Didn't really know much about rabbits at the time. I would separate but that's just me, are there any rescues close by who could help you? Maybe you could try PMing Janice-Arc?It looks like fur pulling due to the baldness around the sore, if possible I would reduce the bonding area right down, I still have to do this with my trio when Bella gets bossy with Dolly, it does help....it does seem a shame to seperate though, looks as though the wounds are scabbing too...everyone has different views of how to bond, when to stop etc
ETA By no means am I an expert Kay does all my bonding ...I deal with the issues when we arrive home...tiffs!
ETA By no means am I an expert Kay does all my bonding ...I deal with the issues when we arrive home...tiffs!
nursecroft
Wise Old Thumper
You really cant leave them for a second, if buns get to this stage and actually fight its very hard to continue, might be worth trying again in a couple of weeks. My group took me 5 weeks to bond, i took a 10 days off work and did not leave them alone for a second, if i needed to go out they either came with me for a ride to the forest to keep me sane or they had a babysitter ready with a spray of water!
jenzel5
Mama Doe
I think I have decided I am going to separate them but have them live next to eachother. The other option is to have them living in separate rooms again. It would be nice to bring Lucy in to the living room with us instead of the cold utility room on her own.
I could try another night with them but to be honest because I am going away on Friday I wouldn't feel happy leaving them with other people, espec if they haven't been getting along.
So I shall go and set up their cages *SIGH*. I can always try again another time, it isn't the end of the world if they don't bond. I just don't think a possible serious injury is worth it. I wouldn't mind chasing but they are fighting.
I could try another night with them but to be honest because I am going away on Friday I wouldn't feel happy leaving them with other people, espec if they haven't been getting along.
So I shall go and set up their cages *SIGH*. I can always try again another time, it isn't the end of the world if they don't bond. I just don't think a possible serious injury is worth it. I wouldn't mind chasing but they are fighting.
jenzel5
Mama Doe
I booked this week off specifically to bond them but then a family outing was arranged. In theory I should have had a full 10 days off but then something happened over the wkend so I couldn't start then either. I haven't left the house either. I was sat in the bathroom for hours and hours and have slept in here. When they started fighting before I was up the stairs in a flash and separated with a broom but all other times I have been in the bathroom. What a nightmare.
Last edited:
I think I have decided I am going to separate them but have them live next to eachother. The other option is to have them living in separate rooms again. It would be nice to bring Lucy in to the living room with us instead of the cold utility room on her own.
I could try another night with them but to be honest because I am going away on Friday I wouldn't feel happy leaving them with other people, espec if they haven't been getting along.
So I shall go and set up their cages *SIGH*. I can always try again another time, it isn't the end of the world if they don't bond. I just don't think a possible serious injury is worth it. I wouldn't mind chasing but they are fighting.
You know your buns better than anyone :wave: ...maybe try them side by side for a while and see how that works, it may make the bond easier next time...chin up
kaths101
Warren Veteran
I think that is prob the right decision if you have to leave them on Friday, as you said you cant leave them like that...
Housing them side by side is a good idea - they will get used to each other and gain trust - just make sure there is a few inches between so they cant nip each other. I had sooty and oreo side by side for a few months and it was the easiest bond ever!
I think next time start off with a smaller space..
Its a shame it didnt work - you must be a bit after all the time you have put into it
Housing them side by side is a good idea - they will get used to each other and gain trust - just make sure there is a few inches between so they cant nip each other. I had sooty and oreo side by side for a few months and it was the easiest bond ever!
I think next time start off with a smaller space..
Its a shame it didnt work - you must be a bit
after all the time you have put into it
Santa
Wise Old Thumper
Sadly I think you're right to separate now if you can't be with them tomorrow. I would be inclined to try again in a while when you have several days to stay with them, use a small pen (around 4*2 or maybe even smaller to start off with if they are skittish and that is winding them up) in a neutral area.
What I find works well to start off with is to hover over them, and to separate them before fighting rather than taking a broom to them once they have started. So for instance if one heads towards the other with ears forward, tail down looking like they want to sniff and say 'hello', if the other one looks as if they are going to respond aggressively (ears back, tail up etc), I will gently put my hand on their back. It seems to calm them down and they allow the other bun to sniff them and back off without a fight. If they do lunge, your hand is already there to stop it from escalating. I find that this keeps things much calmer as they learn much more quickly that they can approach each other without being attacked. Over the course of a few hours you then normally find that you can take your hand back, if they see your hand there they know that they can't lunge, so don't. And then after a few more hours all it takes is a quick shout of "oy" and they will back off if they are starting to look aggressive.
I bonded my boss' rabbits where they had said the female was so aggressive that she just went for him every time he went towards her for a sniff. By keeping a firm hand on her back for the first couple of hours, she got all submissive and by the afternoon she was binkying in the run, so it can change massively quickly if you can help to calm down their anger or fear. Many buns attack as a defence mechanism (i.e. you might attack me so I'm going to attack you first) and this helps them to understand that the other bun isn't going to attack them, they're just coming to say hello.
Although given your current supervision times I agree with you having separated them, the problem with taking them out to let them 'calm down' during bonding is that it doesn't help in the long run. They still need to sort out their hierarchy so it will just continue next time you try. I find the trick is in knowing the body language and stopping them before they fight rather than separating them after. Then you see the body language change over the course of the day as they settle.
I do think there is hope for this bond; they obviously don't inherently hate each other otherwise you wouldn't have had some of the earlier success that you did, so it sounds to me like it's just a case of managing their interaction slightly differently to prevent anything from getting to the stage where it needs separating an active fight.
Good luck x
What I find works well to start off with is to hover over them, and to separate them before fighting rather than taking a broom to them once they have started. So for instance if one heads towards the other with ears forward, tail down looking like they want to sniff and say 'hello', if the other one looks as if they are going to respond aggressively (ears back, tail up etc), I will gently put my hand on their back. It seems to calm them down and they allow the other bun to sniff them and back off without a fight. If they do lunge, your hand is already there to stop it from escalating. I find that this keeps things much calmer as they learn much more quickly that they can approach each other without being attacked. Over the course of a few hours you then normally find that you can take your hand back, if they see your hand there they know that they can't lunge, so don't. And then after a few more hours all it takes is a quick shout of "oy" and they will back off if they are starting to look aggressive.
I bonded my boss' rabbits where they had said the female was so aggressive that she just went for him every time he went towards her for a sniff. By keeping a firm hand on her back for the first couple of hours, she got all submissive and by the afternoon she was binkying in the run, so it can change massively quickly if you can help to calm down their anger or fear. Many buns attack as a defence mechanism (i.e. you might attack me so I'm going to attack you first) and this helps them to understand that the other bun isn't going to attack them, they're just coming to say hello.
Although given your current supervision times I agree with you having separated them, the problem with taking them out to let them 'calm down' during bonding is that it doesn't help in the long run. They still need to sort out their hierarchy so it will just continue next time you try. I find the trick is in knowing the body language and stopping them before they fight rather than separating them after. Then you see the body language change over the course of the day as they settle.
I do think there is hope for this bond; they obviously don't inherently hate each other otherwise you wouldn't have had some of the earlier success that you did, so it sounds to me like it's just a case of managing their interaction slightly differently to prevent anything from getting to the stage where it needs separating an active fight.
Good luck x
Last edited:
jenzel5
Mama Doe
Thanks for that. I will try that next time. The only problem is when do you sleep? They seemed to be calm all day and mostly fought at night (mostly between 3am-5am) which was when I was asleep on the blow up bed.
I am going to get an indoor cage next time I think. They are quite small. I made a pen which was roughly 4 by 2 so I think this needs to be decreased next time.
I know it will involve starting right from the beginning again but I am ok with that. I might even ask a rescue to do it. The only problem with a rescue doing it is that I feel like they are all so busy so can't put as much time in to it as I can. They won't get watched constantly.
I researched bonding a lot before I began and think I did a lot right but need to tweak a few things.
All your opinions and ideas have helped a lot so thank you!
