Beano is walking/sitting odd at times UD 21/02

[Liz47]

Beano has been to the vets about this but nothing was found to be wrong. People who have seen her through visiting me have said they can't see anything wrong but I just feel something is not quite right. She is eating fine and all other behaviours are fine. I've noticed she sometimes catches her back legs on the litter trays when getting in and out (underbed storage container), Gordon has also recently found he can jump on the bed, beano periscopes and looks up like shes curious but has never tried. Ive also seen after she gets her back leg fully strecthed out to groom it she often won't took it back in for a while and when she does they seem more forward than usual. She sits on them like this and sometimes I see they're tooked inwards more than I thought that would be normal. She's quite heavy when she hops, like she drags her back legs more than Gordon but he is a lot smaller than her. She used to get wee stains on her tail often as well which I believe to be characteristic of arthritis as they struggle to lift the tail, but haven't noticed this in a long while.

She's only 5 years old and x rays showed no abnormalities neither did a physical examination but I'm still not sure. Can anyone offer any opinions? Here's a video of her walking, she doesn't walk like this all the time just when she is walking slowly as she is on the vid, she can run fine.

VID_20151231_113957 by Hliz, on Flickr

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Has the Vet addressed any possible neuropathy, possibly EC relate ? It the problem has been found not to be skeletal in nature it could be that previous exposure to EC has caused the issue.

 

[Liz47]

Has the Vet addressed any possible neuropathy, possibly EC relate ? It the problem has been found not to be skeletal in nature it could be that previous exposure to EC has caused the issue.

They didn't say much to be honest about alternative diagnosis, I feel some of the vets are sceptical about doing anything unless symptoms are obviously bad as 80% of the time she looks completely normal. Like I wasn't given any antibiotics for Gordon to begin with as he didn't have discharge but I knew he was sneezing and it would only get worse, which it did. I have been considering changing vets but Gordon is undergoing treatment at this vets atm.

What further tests could be done to identify if EC has played a part?

 

[Jack's-Jane]

They didn't say much to be honest about alternative diagnosis, I feel some of the vets are sceptical about doing anything unless symptoms are obviously bad as 80% of the time she looks completely normal. Like I wasn't given any antibiotics for Gordon to begin with as he didn't have discharge but I knew he was sneezing and it would only get worse, which it did. I have been considering changing vets but Gordon is undergoing treatment at this vets atm.

What further tests could be done to identify if EC has played a part?

Well there is blood testing, but that alone can really only show previous exposure to the parasite. Although a very high titre result in combination with other EC symptoms would be very suggestive that EC was involved. To be honest if the problem has been on going for a long time and Beano is not bothered by it and it's not getting worse I would not want to be rushing into a load of diagnostics. I'd just continue to monitor things and also check that sore hocks are not developing.

Some targeted physiotherapy could help minimise loss of muscle mass/tone so that the rate of progression of the apparent hind leg weakness might be reduced.

 

[MightyMax]

They didn't say much to be honest about alternative diagnosis, I feel some of the vets are sceptical about doing anything unless symptoms are obviously bad as 80% of the time she looks completely normal. Like I wasn't given any antibiotics for Gordon to begin with as he didn't have discharge but I knew he was sneezing and it would only get worse, which it did. I have been considering changing vets but Gordon is undergoing treatment at this vets atm.

What further tests could be done to identify if EC has played a part?

My vet has never advised blood tests for E.C. as it's not a clear diagnosis and would only show whether the rabbit had been exposed to E.C. in the past, and had mounted a response.

I can see what you mean about her being reluctant to use her back legs. You say she's had X-rays? Were they of the back legs also, and showed nothing up?

 

[Aly&Poppy<3]

Leo sits like that and has a wobbly walk and I always assumed it was his arthritis and old age, but he's had EC and had another flare up just over a year ago so it's interesting to know that could be part of it. He has always been kind of wobbly though because of how he was kept before we had him. He had muscle wastage.
I call them his 'silly legs' when he's like it, they'll just randomly stick out sometimes!

 

[Liz47]

Thank you for your further reply Jane, and the replies MightyMax and Aly&Poppy. I will continue to keep a close eye on her and take her to the vets again if she shows any other symptoms or deterioration, she has been like this a while and hasn't got worse or changed. The X rays were done at my previous vets before I moved away for uni, they were just of the back legs and showed no abnormalities. Thanks for sharing your experience with Leo, I never thought about previous muscle wastage. Although I've had Beano since a baby and she's always been kept with plenty of space.

 

[tonibun]

Hi there. Just watched your video and imo there is something going on with Beano. She also looks a bit sorry for herself as if she is feeling uncomfortable possibly at the back end. I think she has one ear back at the beginning of the video which I always feel is a sign that something is not quite right, maybe an ear infection.

 

[Liz47]

Hi there. Just watched your video and imo there is something going on with Beano. She also looks a bit sorry for herself as if she is feeling uncomfortable possibly at the back end. I think she has one ear back at the beginning of the video which I always feel is a sign that something is not quite right, maybe an ear infection.

Thank you for your reply, she does look miserable at the beginning but I'd put this down to the fact I'd just picked her up to check her, her usual response is stamping and putting one ear down! I will bear your view in the mind though, and mention her back legs again at the next vet visit with Gordon.

 

[daphnephoebe]

Thank you for your further reply Jane, and the replies MightyMax and Aly&Poppy. I will continue to keep a close eye on her and take her to the vets again if she shows any other symptoms or deterioration, she has been like this a while and hasn't got worse or changed. The X rays were done at my previous vets before I moved away for uni, they were just of the back legs and showed no abnormalities. Thanks for sharing your experience with Leo, I never thought about previous muscle wastage. Although I've had Beano since a baby and she's always been kept with plenty of space.

Along with EC, it may be worth considering a full body x-ray focusing mainly on the spine. I find it doubtful going by the video & symptoms you describe but there could possibly be arthritis of the spine?

 

[tonibun]

Along with EC, it may be worth considering a full body x-ray focusing mainly on the spine. I find it doubtful going by the video & symptoms you describe but there could possibly be arthritis of the spine?

I wondered too about her spine. Good luck with her xx

 

[Tracy]

She moves very similar to how my Daisy was when she was in the early stages of spondylosis in her spine. Daisy's spondylosis was in the lower thoracic part of the spine, so quite high up her back but an area very important for the hopping action. She would often leave one of her legs sticking out when she sat down, like she had forgotten it, and then drag it around when she started moving again. Daisy's hopping looked heavy and clumsy, but as the disease progressed over the years she tended to 'walk' rather than hop. I first suspected that something wasn't right with Daisy when she became reluctant to jump up onto things, then I saw her try and fail so I knew something wasn't right.

I think x-rays of Beano's spine would be a good idea to rule out spinal issues.

Sending lots of vibes for your little girl. xx

 

[biscandmatt1]

i agree that it could well be early stages of spondylosis. sounds very similar to how bisc was when we couldn't find anything wrong. he was on metacam anyway but the dose was creeping up and up but nothing was showing on xrays even though arthritis/spondylosis was suspected. i just knew there was something wrong for the best part of probably a year and a half and then finally in may last year, bone changes showed on xray.

i'd talk to the vet about metacam and see if there is any improvment whilst she is on it. and keep repeating the xrays every so often to know for sure, if nothing keeps showing.

 

[Liz47]

Thank you for the further replies. I've been reading up on spondylosis and it does sound like Beano Will mention this next week at the vets and request another X ray see if this one shows any changes or indicates spinal problems, arthritis etc and will also mention EC.

 

[Liz47]

I think Beano's back leg issues are getting more prominent now, her previous X ray done in January showed no abnormalities so may be time for another one if other people with rabbits with back leg issues had the same problem of nothing showing up on the first X rays which were done? Does anyone think any other tests may also be helpful? She is leaving her right back leg stretched forward more and catches them even on a very low litter tray. I've cut both the litter trays down at one side but since yesterday she's been weeing at various points around the bedroom and not in the trays but still goes in them as often as usual to eat hay.

I'm worried about Gordon too, due to his heart/resp issues going to the vets is worrying as he gets very stressed but if Beano has to go in all day for X rays/tests I would take him with her otherwise they will fall out. If it was just a quick trip such as an examination then I would take Beano alone, but once she was admitted at the vets for a day a couple of years ago and it was an OOH vets which wouldn't allow Gordon to stay with her but she needed the treatment ASAP and when I brought her home Gordon was attacking her so I had to rebond and I feel they would do this again so unsure what is best to do here :?

ETA: The X rays were done of her spine and hind legs.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Has she had any treatment for EC ? Personally I would opt for EC blood testing,a high titre in conjunction with clinical symptoms that could be EC related would be suggestive that it is neurological (due to EC) as opposed to skeletal. A blood test would not involve a GA, more Xrays would.

https://www.vetstream.com/watkinsandtasker/html/Factsheets/Otherpets/24_286475.asp

Some Vets may just prescribe a course of Fenbendazole/Metacam without the prior blood testing.

 

[MightyMax]

I think Beano's back leg issues are getting more prominent now, her previous X ray done in January showed no abnormalities so may be time for another one if other people with rabbits with back leg issues had the same problem of nothing showing up on the first X rays which were done? Does anyone think any other tests may also be helpful? She is leaving her right back leg stretched forward more and catches them even on a very low litter tray. I've cut both the litter trays down at one side but since yesterday she's been weeing at various points around the bedroom and not in the trays but still goes in them as often as usual to eat hay.

I'm worried about Gordon too, due to his heart/resp issues going to the vets is worrying as he gets very stressed but if Beano has to go in all day for X rays/tests I would take him with her otherwise they will fall out. If it was just a quick trip such as an examination then I would take Beano alone, but once she was admitted at the vets for a day a couple of years ago and it was an OOH vets which wouldn't allow Gordon to stay with her but she needed the treatment ASAP and when I brought her home Gordon was attacking her so I had to rebond and I feel they would do this again so unsure what is best to do here :?

ETA: The X rays were done of her spine and hind legs.

Liz I'm sorry to hear this.

I have just gone back and looked at the video of Beano again. Is she on Metacam for pain relief, and if so, has it make any difference?

Also, did you have a blood profile done in January when she had the X-rays?

Personally I would be reluctant to redo the X-rays as it's not been long since the last ones, unless you are convinced they may have missed something. It would involve a GA and I always try and avoid those if possible.

 

[Liz47]

Thank you both.

She has not had treatment for EC nor did she have blood profiles done. I feel awful for saying this but I opted out due to cost, I have just started a second job which is leaving me with no spare time alongside my 'main' job and university to pay for Gordon's ongoing treatment and Beano's metacam, which she has been on since mid January yet it has not made a noticeable difference, but obviously I will and can continue to pay for whatever they need.

I will take her back and get blood tests done to look for EC or any other issues. Her leg issue luckily doesn't seem to phase her.

 

[joey&boo]

Thank you both.

She has not had treatment for EC nor did she have blood profiles done. I feel awful for saying this but I opted out due to cost, I have just started a second job which is leaving me with no spare time alongside my 'main' job and university to pay for Gordon's ongoing treatment and Beano's metacam, which she has been on since mid January yet it has not made a noticeable difference, but obviously I will and can continue to pay for whatever they need.

I will take her back and get blood tests done to look for EC or any other issues. Her leg issue luckily doesn't seem to phase her.

As you are struggling financially maybe your vet would consider putting beano on panacur ...EC tests are unreliable anyway. Worth a call to discuss I'm sure

 

[Liz47]

As you are struggling financially maybe your vet would consider putting beano on panacur ...EC tests are unreliable anyway. Worth a call to discuss I'm sure

Thank you, that is something to consider as well. I will see what the vet suggests but would probably like blood tests done as well to see if anything else is amiss there.