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Gismo has EC

S

Spacegirl

Mama Doe
He was fine yesterday, this morning his head was all on one side and he couldn't hop straight :cry: He has had an injection of steroids and is on a course of panacur. The vet seemed to think it could go either way as it has come on quite sudenly and with some severity.
What experience have people had with rabbits getting over EC?
 
Spacegirl said:
He was fine yesterday, this morning his head was all on one side and he couldn't hop straight :cry: He has had an injection of steroids and is on a course of panacur. The vet seemed to think it could go either way as it has come on quite sudenly and with some severity.
What experience have people had with rabbits getting over EC?
Click to expand...


Oh no poor chap :cry:
I have not seen a Bun with 'rapid onset' EC. All sudden cases of head-tilt I have seen have been the result of an acute middle ear infection. The Bun was treated using the 'cover all bases' approach. So antibiotics, Panacur and anti-inflammatories were prescribed. All affected Buns recovered, although one was left with a permanent head-tilt.
If Gismo has not been given antibiotics I would ask the Vet 'why'. The steroid will address any neurological inflammation causing the head-tilt but it will also impact on Gizmos immune system. If bacterial infection is a possibility a steroid will reduce the efficacy of his immune systems ability to fight it off.
I hope Gismo shows significant signs of improvement very soon.
My Vet always advises treating any 'in contact' Rabbits in suspected cases of EC. So if Gismo has Bunny friends they need treating with Panacur too

Janex
 
Thanks Jane.
The vet did discuss with me the down side of using the steroid, but decided that the benefits of a short-acting steroid would probably outweight the problems. All his hutch mates are being treated too. He did mention the possibility of a middle ear infection, but felt that EC was strongly indicated - he said it was classic presentation. Its also possible that Honey (who we sadly lost about 3 weeks ago) had EC. We thought it unlikely at the time as it was a very unusual presentation - no head tilt and she had other strange symptoms, so we thought it probably kidney disease. She WAS treated with Panacur though and the EC still remains a possibility.
I will ask the vet about antibiotics though next time I speak to him. Gismo does have a flicking eye though, in adition to the head tilt so I wonder if this would occur if it was just an ear infection? Seems like it is moree neurological :?
 
Spacegirl said:
Thanks Jane.
The vet did discuss with me the down side of using the steroid, but decided that the benefits of a short-acting steroid would probably outweight the problems. All his hutch mates are being treated too. He did mention the possibility of a middle ear infection, but felt that EC was strongly indicated - he said it was classic presentation. Its also possible that Honey (who we sadly lost about 3 weeks ago) had EC. We thought it unlikely at the time as it was a very unusual presentation - no head tilt and she had other strange symptoms, so we thought it probably kidney disease. She WAS treated with Panacur though and the EC still remains a possibility.
I will ask the vet about antibiotics though next time I speak to him. Gismo does have a flicking eye though, in adition to the head tilt so I wonder if this would occur if it was just an ear infection? Seems like it is moree neurological :?
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'Flicking eyes' indicates the brain stem/menenges are affected/inflammed. The inflammation could be due to EC or bacterial infection.

Janex
 
What sort of bacterial infection could it be? (I know you can only guess! Just wondering if you have any ideas)
 
Spacegirl said:
What sort of bacterial infection could it be? (I know you can only guess! Just wondering if you have any ideas)
Click to expand...

When one of my Buns had an acute middle ear infection she presented with a marked head-tilt, loss of balance and nystagmus (flicking eyes) The actual bacteria involved was presumed to be Pasteurella and she was put onto Baytril, Metacam, Stemitil, Panacur + Probiotics , sub-cut fluids and syringe feeds.
The actual bacteria involved was never scientifically identified but it responded well to the Baytil.
The neurological symtoms were attributed to inflammation caused by the infection. These symptoms resolved over a period of about 3 days. The abx treatment was continued for 14 days, the Panacur for 6 weeks.

Janex
 
Jack's-Jane said:
When one of my Buns had an acute middle ear infection she presented with a marked head-tilt, loss of balance and nystagmus (flicking eyes) The actual bacteria involved was presumed to be Pasteurella and she was put onto Baytril, Metacam, Stemitil, Panacur + Probiotics , sub-cut fluids and syringe feeds.
The actual bacteria involved was never scientifically identified but it responded well to the Baytil.
The neurological symtoms were attributed to inflammation caused by the infection. These symptoms resolved over a period of about 3 days. The abx treatment was continued for 14 days, the Panacur for 6 weeks.

Janex
Click to expand...

Hi Jane - I'm currently going through exactly this with Charlie, he became ill very quickly on Sunday, he was on his own for half an hour, then we found him lying on the floor all twisted up. He's being treated with antibiotics, panacur and steroids (initially but not any more), and has been with the vet since Sunday. He seems happy enough, he's eating and wants fuss/snuggles, and has shown a slight improvement physically. He's no longer twisted up but is still lying on his side, yesterday he started to lift his head up and today he's definitely trying to sit up and is moving his head round more.

Does it sound more like an ear infection or EC? From what you've said we shoudl probably have seen more improvement if it was an ear infection?

Also, what is Stemicil for?

Spacegirl - my thoughts are with you, its so heart breaking seeing you bun poorly, I hope Gismo gets better soon.
 
BevBunny said:
Hi Jane - I'm currently going through exactly this with Charlie, he became ill very quickly on Sunday, he was on his own for half an hour, then we found him lying on the floor all twisted up. He's being treated with antibiotics, panacur and steroids (initially but not any more), and has been with the vet since Sunday. He seems happy enough, he's eating and wants fuss/snuggles, and has shown a slight improvement physically. He's no longer twisted up but is still lying on his side, yesterday he started to lift his head up and today he's definitely trying to sit up and is moving his head round more.

Does it sound more like an ear infection or EC? From what you've said we shoudl probably have seen more improvement if it was an ear infection?

Also, what is Stemicil for?

Spacegirl - my thoughts are with you, its so heart breaking seeing you bun poorly, I hope Gismo gets better soon.
Click to expand...

Well as long as all bases are being covered (abx, anti-inflammatories and Panacur) you know that both EC and infection are being treated. The recovery from inflammation caused by a middle-ear infection can be very slow. It sounds as though each day is bringing about improvement for Charlie :) If he is very immobile your Vet may recommend physiotherapy too. This will help him keep some muscle tone. Immobility leads to muscle wastage which, in turn, will make getting up more difficult if he tries to do so.

Stemitil is what humans take for motion sickness. A middle-ear infection can cause similar feelings to motion sickness but of course a Bun cant vomit. So they just feel :mrgreen:

I hope you receive encouraging news about Charlie today :)

Janex
 
Also, he is very keen to eat and drink still - he managed to get his head up to eat a small bowl full of pellets last night and has eaten as much grass as I have given him, greens too.
I'm hoping this is a good sign :?
 
I am so sorry I bet its so hard for you :(

How quickly can buns recover from the head tilt?

Sending millions of vibes to Gizmo :D
 
Also do all buns with EC get the head tilt?

Sorry i dont want to appear insensitive Sally my thoughts are with you I have always wanted to learn more about this :?
 
Thanks :)
He is still the same. Its awful seeing him toss around trying to get settled - his balance is just completely gone :cry: I've got him on blankets in a small pet carrier so he can't move too much, but I still can't get him to stay still and I don't know what to do.
 
Spacegirl said:
Thanks :)
He is still the same. Its awful seeing him toss around trying to get settled - his balance is just completely gone :cry: I've got him on blankets in a small pet carrier so he can't move too much, but I still can't get him to stay still and I don't know what to do.
Click to expand...


Is he having any anti-inflammatories ? Or was the steroid he had a long-acting one?
Its the inflammation that will be causing him to loose his balance so some sort of anti-inflammatory is essential.
STEMITIL can also be useful.

At least he is still eating which has to be a good sign

Janex
 
Well, Gismo is showing some signs of improvement :D Although his head is still very tilted and he is still falling over a lot, he is now able to get to his feet and has just started to take a small step or two with his front feet. This is a big improvement on how he was.
Still a long way to go, but it is hopeful.
 
Thats excellent news, I'm so glad Gismo is improving. :D I'm going through the same thing with Charlie, today is the first day he's been up on his feet for mor than a few seconds, and is even trying some tentative hops.

I know what you mean about them not settling, when he lies down he kicks out with his feet to try to keep himself upright. I am trying things like giving him things to prop himself against which seems to help - I put his food bowl near him and he propped his head up on it so now I've given him a cardboard tube and a teddy which he's doing the same with. I've put him in an old feraplast cage that I keep for emergencies (I can't believe I once thought he could live in it!!) so he's safe and I've been sitting next to him for most of the day, and giving him a bit of support when he stands up. I'm sure its helped as he's improved since lunchtime today!

Lots of luck with Gismo, and keeping all things crossed.
 
Glad to hear Charlie is making improvements too :D Its heartnreaking to see them struggling, but so encouraging when you start to see them making progress.

Gismo is spending more time on his feet than fallen over today and is starting to take the odd step or two to get himself about :D
 
We should move this to Rabbit Care section to gain the more experience owner who have deal w/ EC for their help.

Sending healthy healing vibes to your Gismo
 
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