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Snuffles/Pasterella advice needed

andrea82

Young Bun
I have a 3 month old Dwarf Lop called Bob.
The day I bought him at 9wks from "Pets At Home", I left him in his carrier (to settle him) with the box opened. Within an hour he sneezed repeatedly.
I remember from my first rabbit Loppy, he lived for 6 years until he had(stroke like symptoms), that this was a bad sign.
I rang "Pets at Home" who said I could either swap him or the store would pay for the treatment.
Bob was diagnosed with Pasterella. Our vet did not take any blood tests as it was obvious classic yellow discharge on nose and front paws and obviously sneezing. I couldn't swap him!
He has had Baytril orally for weeks now. We have also tried a few injections as its not safe to have too many.
I understand this can lead to a nasty outlook.
I would appreciate any advice?
Can a rabbit have too much Baytril?:(
 
Last edited:
Hello

Has the Vet treating your Rabbit taken a swab to ascertain exactly what bacteria are involved in the respiratory tract infection?

Quite often Baytril appears to be ineffective in treating 'snuffles'
Some Vets prefer to use Septrin or a course of a long acting Tetracycline antibiotic injection or a course of Penicillin Injections.

Recently I have had a Rabbit with severe 'snuffles' who has responded extremely well to treatment with antibiotics (Tiacil) applied directly into her nostrils!!

Janex
 
tiacil is great stuff. ive used it topically for skin infection/abcesses as well as the usual use for eyes. very interesting that it worked for the suffles too.
good luck with your bunny and brilliant that you stuck with him and gave him a loving home to recover in x x:)
 
I would also give Septrin a go.
Although snuffles can be a chronic condition, it doesn't have to mean a bleak outlook - it can be managed and lots of bunnies that never 100% rid themselves of it still live long, happy lives:D
 
Hello

Has the Vet treating your Rabbit taken a swab to ascertain exactly what bacteria are involved in the respiratory tract infection?

Quite often Baytril appears to be ineffective in treating 'snuffles'
Some Vets prefer to use Septrin or a course of a long acting Tetracycline antibiotic injection or a course of Penicillin Injections.

Recently I have had a Rabbit with severe 'snuffles' who has responded extremely well to treatment with antibiotics (Tiacil) applied directly into her nostrils!!

Janex

Thank You for your reply.
He did have around two injections cant remember the name of it.
The vet told me he can't have too many injections stating it wasn't safe?
He didn't really respond to the injection either.
The Pasterella hasn't reached his lungs luckily.
My vet hasn't taken any swabs or tests.He did mention Baytril wasn't the best treatment and I could look up any alternatives. I have searched on the internet Bicillin seems to be good. Have you heard of this before?
However I will ask my vet regarding Tiacil.
Thanks for your help.

Andrea & Bob x
 
We have also used Seprin to good results. Unfirtunatly it appears most rabbit with snuffle type symptoms are prone to relapses throughout life and its a major consideration in adopting one of these types of rabbits.

Hope your bunny picks up soon and may I suggest adding probiotics to the water to combat the affects of the antibiotics on the good gut flora.
 
Thank You for your reply.
He did have around two injections cant remember the name of it.
The vet told me he can't have too many injections stating it wasn't safe?
He didn't really respond to the injection either.
The Pasterella hasn't reached his lungs luckily.
My vet hasn't taken any swabs or tests.He did mention Baytril wasn't the best treatment and I could look up any alternatives. I have searched on the internet Bicillin seems to be good. Have you heard of this before?
However I will ask my vet regarding Tiacil.
Thanks for your help.

Andrea & Bob x

http://www.houserabbit.co.uk/rwf/articles/penicillin.htm

Some Rabbits will have a good response to Septrin, Engemycin or Ronoxan
Getting a swab culture done will identify the most suitable antibiotic to use

Janex :)
 
How long has he been on baytril for and has it made any difference at all? I've heard that the latest thinking on Snuffles from Edinburgh is a 6 week course of baytril! Personally I haven't had much success with Septrin - I think it is inactivated by pus, so if your little chap has a lot of snot it might not work terribly well. It might be worth getting a swab done and seeing if there is a good sample there to culture (pasteurella is difficult to sample).

I'd also suggest writing to pets at home - both the branch and the head office - expressing your concern that rabbits so young have snuffles and question whether they should check out the breeder and consider not using them if there are other snotty bunnies there. I'd also contact Environmental Health at the Council, they are responsible for licensing pet shops and it is illegal to sell a sick animal - often they don't get told about problems so it wouldn't hurt for them to go and have a look. None of these actions will help your little chap of course, but they may add weight towards ensuring that only healthy bunnies are sold in the future!
 
How long has he been on baytril for and has it made any difference at all? I've heard that the latest thinking on Snuffles from Edinburgh is a 6 week course of baytril! Personally I haven't had much success with Septrin - I think it is inactivated by pus, so if your little chap has a lot of snot it might not work terribly well. It might be worth getting a swab done and seeing if there is a good sample there to culture (pasteurella is difficult to sample).

I'd also suggest writing to pets at home - both the branch and the head office - expressing your concern that rabbits so young have snuffles and question whether they should check out the breeder and consider not using them if there are other snotty bunnies there. I'd also contact Environmental Health at the Council, they are responsible for licensing pet shops and it is illegal to sell a sick animal - often they don't get told about problems so it wouldn't hurt for them to go and have a look. None of these actions will help your little chap of course, but they may add weight towards ensuring that only healthy bunnies are sold in the future!

I have been thinking the same with regards to writing them a letter."Pets at Home" put 30 rabbits (up until 09/06/07 day of purchase) in quarantine. Shouldn't this have highlighted the fact that Bob had this illness?
The whole point of "Quarantine"?
What about the other buns they may also have this.
I had Bob just an hour and noticed he was poorly! Who knows what they would have done had I swapped him!
Every time he sneezes he will lay down it must give him a headache?
The Baytril and a couple of injections have been used since 09/06/07.
 
Hi Andrea

I struggled with my bunny Loki and snuffles last year (he was from Pets at Home too) and we were on different meds and back and forth to the vets for 6 months or more. Please don't let the above sentence upset or depress you as Loki managed to battle his snuffles and has been fine since. We tried Baytril, but the vet would only prescribe for 7 days and then taking him back to the vet and the stress that caused brought us back to square one. We tried Baytril and then Septrin for periods of 7 days for a few months and then eventually changed vets. The new vets put him on a 28 day course of Baytril (with Bio Lapis) and after this extended course the symptoms disappeared. Septrin didn't work for Loki and the vets didn't try any of the other antibiotics suggested here, but the swab we had done came back negative for pasturella (interesting as Loki's nose was pouring with snot at the time!). A long course of Baytril seemed to work eventually. We know now that trips to the vets, travelling and changes in Loki's routine can all trigger snuffles, but I wouldn't change him for the world and he lives a full life. I hope that Bob gets better very soon.
 
Hi Andrea,

I have had a snuffles bun for 1 and a half years now. My boyf bought him from PAH as a present for me as he knew I wanted a bun. Je had snuffles from day 1. PAH said we could swap him, when we told them he was ill, or they would take him to the vets to be treated, but like yourself I couldn't give him back, and I don't think it bears thinking about what would have happened to him if I did, and I also didn't trust him with his treatment due to the fact that they sold him in that condition in the first place :evil: .

Nibs was on baytril initially, then septrin which both had no effect what so ever. We then tried aueromycin (sp) which was a blue powder, which worked to an extent. After that we tried Ronaxan tablets, which worked better than any of the others, but he was still sneezing alot and having a very snotty nose. After this we tried Terramycin LA (Long Acting)- injected every 3 days. This has worked so well. Nibs was haveing medication every day for 8 months, possbily more. After he had this course in April, he has not had any other snuffles related medication at all. He still does sneeze, at the most once or twice a day, but it think this is the best we can hope for with him. But considering his sneezing was almost constant previously I think its great.

I would say based on my own experience, anddepending on how severe his snuffles is, if the baytril and septrin do not owrk, try the ronaxan with a pro biotic and some bisolvon powder. If that doesn't work try the terramycin injections. My vet showed me how to administer them so I could do them at home, so you might not have to take him in every 3 days if you ask.

Hope this helps and your little guy improves soon.

x
 
my rabbits have pasturella and the sensitivity test showed that baytril was the most effective!!!

I had a 10 day course which has helped one of the rabbits but not made any difference to the other sneezy one! The vet said ideally a six week course of baytril is what he'd like to do however this is not possible at the moment as she is prone to tummy problems and couldn't handle the antibiotics :cry:

As she is not suffering and the Pasturella has not got any worse since the symptoms started at christmas we have decided not to treat unless she gets any worse! If she does she will be on probiotics and baytril for as long as she can handle, hopefully for 6 weeks! :?
 
Bob and his update.

I took Bob back to the vets yesterday. He has been losing and gaining weight for some time. He is at his best weight so far 1.8kg and sneezing is less frequent (average for a Dwarf I read is around 2.5).However he is a baby so a bit more growing to do. A bit of Oxbo hay seemed to beef him up a bit.
I took a list of the suggested treatments to my vet, but whilst he is showing signs of improvements we both agreed he was overdue his injections for Myxomatosis & VHD.
He will have one on Thursday. Then after those we will give the Septrin a go twice a day a full syringe! (he will fall out with me then, he hates taking his meds).

I'll see how he gets on without taking anymore Baytril.
Thanks again for the replys I will ask the questions with any treatment suggestions.
 
I took Bob back to the vets yesterday. He has been losing and gaining weight for some time. He is at his best weight so far 1.8kg and sneezing is less frequent (average for a Dwarf I read is around 2.5).However he is a baby so a bit more growing to do. A bit of Oxbo hay seemed to beef him up a bit.
I took a list of the suggested treatments to my vet, but whilst he is showing signs of improvements we both agreed he was overdue his injections for Myxomatosis & VHD.
He will have one on Thursday. Then after those we will give the Septrin a go twice a day a full syringe! (he will fall out with me then, he hates taking his meds).

I'll see how he gets on without taking anymore Baytril.
Thanks again for the replys I will ask the questions with any treatment suggestions.


My Vet says that if a Bun with an active infection is vaccinated against Myxi and/or VHD the Vaccination is unlikely to be effective. A good immune response to the vaccines can only occur in a healthy Bun :?
Maybe your Vet disagrees :?

Both Vaccine Manufacturers state that the vaccine should not be given to an unhealthy animal

http://www.intervet.co.uk/Products_Public/Nobivac_Myxo/090_Product_Datasheet.asp

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Fort_Dodge_Animal_Health/Cylap/-44946.html

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/CEVA_Animal_Health_Ltd/Lapinject_VHD/-42509.html

:? :?


Janex
 
maybe it depends how ill the rabbit is? mine have had all their injections despite being snuffly? :?
 
Hiya!

I think this is quite clearly a long running problem with Pets at Home. I have a dwarf lop male bunny from Pets at Home who I have had since March, and ever since day one he has had snuffles. I reported this to the vets who just told me that to keep an eye on him, which meant it clearly got worse. I complained to pets at home on how ill he actually was and they footed a certain amount of vets bills.

Im not really sure to go about helping him now, Ive de-hayed and de sawdusted his hutch, so the only thing he has is paper, and the soft shredded paper dotted around and in his bedding. He went on 2 courses of antibiotics, and then had a 5 injection course where he went back every 3 days, this cleared up one nostril for a week or so, then the other started to have discharge also, I then went back and had to foot the bill for another 5 injections, and it seems to have done nothing. His nose is frequently runny and he is always sneezing, the underside of his front paws are horrible and really really hard to clean. All pets at home have said that they have footed the bill now and that if I have any furthur problems they will pay nothing else, and I can return the rabbit and get a full refund, but I am extremey attached to him as is my boyfriend. Soooo, seeing as we have tried everything that companion care have offered I am at a bit of a loss at the moment!!

The two lots of antibiotics he were on, Im not sure wot they were called but the first one was a clear liquid where I could only give 3.2 of the syringe to him, that made apsolutly NO difference, and then he went on a creamier looking antibiotics that stunk like anicid, that was twice a day and made a small difference but not much.

Any ideas?!?!!?
 
My Vet says that if a Bun with an active infection is vaccinated against Myxi and/or VHD the Vaccination is unlikely to be effective. A good immune response to the vaccines can only occur in a healthy Bun :?
Maybe your Vet disagrees :?

Both Vaccine Manufacturers state that the vaccine should not be given to an unhealthy animal

http://www.intervet.co.uk/Products_Public/Nobivac_Myxo/090_Product_Datasheet.asp

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Fort_Dodge_Animal_Health/Cylap/-44946.html

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/CEVA_Animal_Health_Ltd/Lapinject_VHD/-42509.html

:? :?


Janex
.

My vet did say the same with giving Bob injections. He did mention that his condition will never be 100% he will occasionally sneeze once or twice a day.That is where we need him to be.He does still have snotty nose?
With regards to these injections like you have noted its no good to Bob if they don't work.
I think some vets are clued up & very rabbit friendly. I'm not sure what to do?
 
.

My vet did say the same with giving Bob injections. He did mention that his condition will never be 100% he will occasionally sneeze once or twice a day.That is where we need him to be.He does still have snotty nose?
With regards to these injections like you have noted its no good to Bob if they don't work.
I think some vets are clued up & very rabbit friendly. I'm not sure what to do?

Well my Vet Vaccinated Bobbie and 3 out of her 5 Boblets today. Bobbie was VERY poorly with acute Pasteurellosis and then nearly died from Penicillin induced enteritis. But she recovered and at long last her Snuffles is in remission so my Vet said we should go ahead with the Myxi Vaccination on the understanding that it MIGHT trigger her Snuffles off again. Bobbie has been off all abx and asymtomatic re the Snuffles for just over a week.
Of course Bobbie may not have a good immune response to the Vaccine due to the fact that her Immune System is 'busy' fending off the Snuffles. Therefore the Vaccination wont be effective. Or her Immune System might be 'diverted' from fending off the Snuffles to react to the Vaccine thus her Snuffles Symptoms will all return.

Why is nothing straight forward with Bunnies :? :?

If your Vet advises Vaccination I would go with that.

Janex
 
Well my Vet Vaccinated Bobbie and 3 out of her 5 Boblets today. Bobbie was VERY poorly with acute Pasteurellosis and then nearly died from Penicillin induced enteritis. But she recovered and at long last her Snuffles is in remission so my Vet said we should go ahead with the Myxi Vaccination on the understanding that it MIGHT trigger her Snuffles off again. Bobbie has been off all abx and asymtomatic re the Snuffles for just over a week.
Of course Bobbie may not have a good immune response to the Vaccine due to the fact that her Immune System is 'busy' fending off the Snuffles. Therefore the Vaccination wont be effective. Or her Immune System might be 'diverted' from fending off the Snuffles to react to the Vaccine thus her Snuffles Symptoms will all return.

Why is nothing straight forward with Bunnies :? :?

If your Vet advises Vaccination I would go with that.

Janex

I'm glad shes better. I never realised the different strains until recently and how most treatments can cause stomach problems, or extra problems and will not work without proper diagnosis culture swabs.
Its all still research with bunnies.
I will mention to him the yellow nose is still there, I did say yesterday to my vet.
Go from there really.
Andrea
 
Hiya!

I think this is quite clearly a long running problem with Pets at Home. I have a dwarf lop male bunny from Pets at Home who I have had since March, and ever since day one he has had snuffles. I reported this to the vets who just told me that to keep an eye on him, which meant it clearly got worse. I complained to pets at home on how ill he actually was and they footed a certain amount of vets bills.

Im not really sure to go about helping him now, Ive de-hayed and de sawdusted his hutch, so the only thing he has is paper, and the soft shredded paper dotted around and in his bedding. He went on 2 courses of antibiotics, and then had a 5 injection course where he went back every 3 days, this cleared up one nostril for a week or so, then the other started to have discharge also, I then went back and had to foot the bill for another 5 injections, and it seems to have done nothing. His nose is frequently runny and he is always sneezing, the underside of his front paws are horrible and really really hard to clean. All pets at home have said that they have footed the bill now and that if I have any furthur problems they will pay nothing else, and I can return the rabbit and get a full refund, but I am extremey attached to him as is my boyfriend. Soooo, seeing as we have tried everything that companion care have offered I am at a bit of a loss at the moment!!

The two lots of antibiotics he were on, Im not sure wot they were called but the first one was a clear liquid where I could only give 3.2 of the syringe to him, that made apsolutly NO difference, and then he went on a creamier looking antibiotics that stunk like anicid, that was twice a day and made a small difference but not much.

Any ideas?!?!!?

I have had good advice from this forum. So this is the perfect place to be.
Firstly, I would ring the vet and ask for the names of all treatments used on your bun.
Track down other medicines used with the rabbits ailments/diagnosis(pasturella).
PAH would not be so kind to pay for "culture swabs" but is the best solution to identify the best treatment. On certain treatments can cause stomach troubles, so plenty of Timothy hay/meadow hay (Hay is 80% of a rabbits diet, 10% pellet mix they recommended try not to use muesli they only pick out there favourite bits hence do not eat all nutrients needed, 10% veg when vet recommends it).
Bob hasn't had much veg yet hes too young and its not good with the Baytril he was taking so i'm told!
PAH need a few letters coming there way.Surely its illegal to sell sick animals!
 
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