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Argh bonding

L

louandjoe

Alpha Buck
We've put Mavis, Mylo & Millie in neutral territory and to start with they were fine, then they started really pulling fur and biting. We had to stop them fighting once when the two girls were on their sides clamped to each other's faces.

I'm just a bit concerned (actually it's petrifying me :cry: ) about the fighting - at what point do I seperate them as every time they go near each other, they sniff each other and start going for each other.

This is so horrible :cry: :cry: :cry:
 
I'm a bonding coward, but if it were me I would bond the 2 girls for a few weeks first on neutral territory and out of sight of the boy. The female already bonded to him will be defending her place as his partner, so it might go better if the 2 girls are given seperate bonding sessions of a half hour or so before trying them as a group? Once they've taken a strong dislike to each other though there won't be much hope. If you've got any lavender, rub that on them as it hides the scent so I've heard?

Bonding is very stressful for an existing couple (less so for 2 singles) as they defend their partner - might be a good idea to give them a break for a week before starting again, or you risk one of the females getting ill with stress.
 
Thanks for your reply.

Mavis (who's bonded with Mylo) puts her head down near Millie to be groomed and when Millie doens't groom her, then she starts nibbling Millie's head.

We've got the two girls seperated from Mylo now as it's a bit more placid but the above is still happening occassionally.

Would you suggest I seperate them? I'm worried that if I do, it'll all go back to stage one :cry:

Any suggestions please?!
 
If they're not seriously (whirling and locked on) fighting, then leave them together supervised for as long as poss. If you want to put them in a hutch or cage or something, be absolutely sure they are tolerating each other - I left my 2 girl piggies together in the run for 3 days before putting them in a smaller area together, and even now they have 2 bottles, 2 dishes etc, just to make sure there's nothing to argue over.

Also make sure the cage is neutral territory by thoroughly cleaning it and moving it to a new position.

I assumed you were bonding in a new female to a male/female couple - isn't this the case? How old are they, and which ones have been neutered and how long ago - all these are factors in bonding :)
 
Yeah, I'm bonding a new girl into a pair. Mavis & Mylo are both about 10 months and Millie is older, about 2.

They're all neutured, Mavis & Mylo for 4/5 months, and Millie was done 2 weeks ago.

They're on neutral territory (my bedroom - now I know what it's like to be woken every hour with a screaming baby!). They haven't had a proper fight since we first put them together last night. All they're doing now is Mavis sort of lurches towards Millie and Millie runs away, Mavis chases for a couple of seconds then it's stops.

Millie seems frightened of Mavis and will run away, which then part of the time, makes Mavis chase her.

I'm planning on leaving them on neutral territory for a few days at least, until they're getting on ok. They will sit in the litter tray happily next to each other until Millie gets scared and runs away.

It's all very nerve wracking and would be so easy to give up now but I definately think they've got over alot of it since last night. It's just Millie being scared is the main problem now.
 
I tried bonding two girls and a boy but the girls started fighting and one of them lost a piece of her ear so i gave up.
I think its best to bond the two girls without the male there although i do wonder what will happen when the male is reintroduced :?
I went for the easy option and got another male and now have two separate pairs. I hate to see rabbits fighting, they are so vicious! :shock:
 
I think you'll find that Millie is still very hormonal if she was only spayed 2 weeks ago - that may be making Mavis more aggressive to her. If Millie's only recently been spayed are you sure she's healed up completely? She might be a bit delicate for bonding at the mo. and I would leave it a few more weeks.

If Mavis and Milo are a couple you shouldn't split them up for too long really or he'll get stressed without her.
 
elve said:
I would bond the 2 girls for a few weeks first on neutral territory and out of sight of the boy. .
Click to expand...

Sorry I've just re-read this and it's a bit misleading - what I meant was have short sessions of the girls together for a few weeks, away from the boy, not split up the boy/girl couple for a few weeks :oops:

It is difficult to bond a threesome in any case. It really depends on the personality of the rabbits - they have to establish a pecking order, and who is going to be boss, and this will probably be one of the females. Meanwhile they will challenge each other and scuffle about, which is normal and nothing to worry about. When they lock onto each other they scrabble at the stomach, and that's bad and needs to be broken up with a long handled broom (to protect your fingers) or by popping a wash basket over one of them. That kind of fighting is particularly bad for Millie with her recent surgery.
 
louandjoe said:
They're on neutral territory (my bedroom - now I know what it's like to be woken every hour with a screaming baby!). They haven't had a proper fight since we first put them together last night. All they're doing now is Mavis sort of lurches towards Millie and Millie runs away, Mavis chases for a couple of seconds then it's stops.

Millie seems frightened of Mavis and will run away, which then part of the time, makes Mavis chase her.
Click to expand...

This all sounds very normal, for now just leave them to get on with it. If for any reason you feel that they are PROPERLY fighting use a brrom to separate them, hold one with the broom to keep them apart for about 30 seconds and then remove the broom. Do not take one out from where the other is, by doing this you almost end up back at the beginning again.

Just keep with it, they are doing fine by the sounds of it.
 
jrn1310 said:
This all sounds very normal, for now just leave them to get on with it. If for any reason you feel that they are PROPERLY fighting use a brrom to separate them, hold one with the broom to keep them apart for about 30 seconds and then remove the broom. Do not take one out from where the other is, by doing this you almost end up back at the beginning again.

Just keep with it, they are doing fine by the sounds of it.
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Thanks. I've purposely not seperated them, after reading all the bonding stuff on here saying it would be back to stage one.

They've just sitting at opposite ends of the cage to each other now. I think they're alot better with each other now and no fighting really at all now, just a bit of chasing and running away.

Re: the spay. The vet checked Millie over and all is ok, her wound is healing perfectly and she said it would be fine to introduce them. We've monitored Millie's scar throughout the process.

Is it too soon for her to be with the other two? God it's confusing to know what to do with all the conflicting advise :?
 
There is a lot of conflicting advise about at which point it is ok for you to pair up a rabbit after a spay. I often do this about 10 - 14 days after wards and have never had a problem, others would suggest longer.

If you have the other 2 buns together in your bedroom that has now become their territory and again you will need to find somewhere neutral to introduce the 3 buns together. If you have somewhere with a washable floor, you can wash te skirting boards and the floor with a rabbit friendly highly smelling cleaning product prior to putting them all in there. Whilst they are settling down you have time to reclean the rest of your place. If you have carpets you may just need to vacumn them and leave the buns off them for a couple of weeks whilst the smell is neutralised over time.
 
Yes it is confusing isn't it :rolleyes: I have 2 single bunnies as a result - I'm too cowardly to attempt bonding after Maa tried to rip Benny's boy bits off after having tried to kill one of her own daughters - I was shaking more than them :roll:

It doesn't help that all bunnies are so individual - some are easy to bond and some are aggressive etc. It's hard for anyone to advise you without knowing your rabbits personalities and seeing them together - you are the best judge!

If you are really determined to have a threesome rather than 2 pairs, you will have to be brave and tolerate a certain amount of fighting in the beginning, but know when to intervene if it's serious - you will see them lock on but otherwise don't worry as a bit of scuffling is normal.

And I would guess Janice is more experienced than me, if you wonder whose advice to take :) Although I seem to remember a bonding that went horribly wrong not long ago, after the same advice was given. It was down to the stress and one female obviously had a weak heart - she died of heart failure and the other female was badly injured by her first. Grim. I wouldn't go there :oops:
 
Oh god, don't tell me that! :cry: I'm so tempted to give in and put them back in their respective spaces/cages but I don't want to give up on them so easily as for the most time, they're sitting happily next to each other.

I've got yet another neutral space set up for later, I'm running out of room in my house that hasn't been bunnied by one of then! :roll:

Thanks for the advice - it all helps! :D
 
I am also aware of many horror stories, however the majority of these are people who have not gone about bonding using the theory of entirely neutral territory.

If you have your worries please see if there is someone who lives near you who could assist you. If you are any where near the Twickenham area, I would be more than happy to help you.
 
jrn1310 said:
I am also aware of many horror stories, however the majority of these are people who have not gone about bonding using the theory of entirely neutral territory.

If you have your worries please see if there is someone who lives near you who could assist you. If you are any where near the Twickenham area, I would be more than happy to help you.
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I'm not close to Twickenham at all, that would have been great. Thank you for the offer, that's really nice of you :D

I'll see how we go; if they don't settle after a few days, I'll have to seek help from someone to help the bonding. What are you views on the car ride theory of them being scared and seeking comfort from one another?

Quick question - Mavis seems to be nipping the fur around Millie's eyes - is this normal? She's not doing it hard as Millie isn't flinching or anything. Is this a step towards grooming, albeit very rough grooming!
 
What the car journey does is stress them out, the aim of the journey is to get them stressed so they week comfort and support in each other.
 
louandjoe said:
Yay Mavis just licked Millie's ear without biting her!

*fingers crossed for more progress*
Click to expand...

All sounds good to me, you will find there are moments when things deteriorate a little and then improve. Go with it and they will settle.

If you are struggling you may find a rescue nearby you which can help you
 
The rescue I use does the car journey thing as they will both feel insecure with the noise and movement and will look to each other for comfort.
The other good thing I've seen is putting them in a cat carrier and walking them around with you - same sort of effect - and if they start to get a bit fiesty you pick the carrier up and move it so they lose interest in fighting as they again feel unnerved.
Good luck - I've only done it once and it was an instant hit. The others I've had have been bonded by an expert! (Louise at Hopper Haven)
 
Well, they're all back in together now after the two girls being on their own for a while and other than a little bit of chasing, it seems fine *touch wood*

Mylo's been grooming them both (ladies man) and both girls have been flopping down, so I'm taking that as they're relatively happy & comfortable.

I've completely neutralised a new area of my bedroom and any items in the cage, and got them set up in a 3 x 3 cube thing at the moment. They seem better in this smaller area.

Assuming they continue as they are, I'm planning on leaving them here for another day or two and then maybe trying them back in the kitchen, obviously with it all neutralised and set out different to when just Mavis & Mylo were in there.

The only problem now is that Mavis & Mylo keep putting their heads down for Millie to groom them and when she doesn't, they nip slightly. I've never seen Millie groom anyone, and I don't think she was treated that nice before we had her - could it be that she doesn't remember how to groom?
 
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