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Is good breeding the answer?

kayjay

Warren Veteran
Since seeing the awful conditions the breeder kept the rabbits in that Snowy rescued the other week I've been pondering on this question.

As well as dreadful breeders like him, there are obviously good breeders. I've been wondering whether there is an argument that someone like me (or you) should take up breeding to provide high quality rabbits, sold only to suitable owners with suitable accommodation etc. Not for sale to petshops but to sell to good potential owners similar to the way that rescues homecheck. Dog breeders are accepted and if someone wants a baby pedigree dog, you go to a breeder. Would it not be a better situation that if someone wants a rabbit they go to a breeder who runs it as well as a rescue?

I just don't see the end point of the endless cycle of person buys bunny from petshop, sticks it in a 3ft cage, gets tired of it, gives it to a rescue where one of us goes along and adds to our already growing number of rabbits. People are always going to want to buy baby rabbits and maybe the future could be that similar to pedigree dogs rather than petshop sales.
 
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I believe in responsible breeding. Pet keeping is a very selfish act but one I enjoy! I think it's a bit like being anti-meat eaters but still eating meat yourself. If you're so anti-breeders you wouldn't own animals at all - they all have to come from somewhere!
I think if more awareness was raised of responsible breeders it would give people an alternative to petshops and bad breeders.
Wanting to provide people with healthy, friendly animals doesn't make anyone a bad person. Yes there are plenty of animals in rescues, which is why I'd prefer to rescue than buy from a breeder even if they were responsible, but you'll always get people wanting a baby bunny or wanting a certain colour.
The rat fancy seems to have a good breeder/rescue balance - responsible breeders have contracts just like rescues and ask that any rats that can't be kept be returned, so they don't contribute to the rescue situation, and often take on rescue rats themselves too.
 
I believe in responsible breeding. Pet keeping is a very selfish act but one I enjoy! I think it's a bit like being anti-meat eaters but still eating meat yourself. If you're so anti-breeders you wouldn't own animals at all - they all have to come from somewhere!

Bit of a sweeping statement! I am anti breeding and have pets- however both of mine are rescues- I have them because they needed a home. However I would never go to a breeder and would be happy if the practice of keeping pets died out.
 
However I would never go to a breeder and would be happy if the practice of keeping pets died out.

My OH agrees with you, he says he's not anti animals, but anti pets as he doesn't think we have the right to have animals as pets. However I feel that we get so much from keeping animals as pets and as long as they are people like us (!) the animals get a lot back.
 
The rat fancy seems to have a good breeder/rescue balance - responsible breeders have contracts just like rescues and ask that any rats that can't be kept be returned, so they don't contribute to the rescue situation, and often take on rescue rats themselves too.

That's the sort of thing I've been wondering. To me it's the only way forwards if we want to keep animals as pets because as you say they need breeding by someone and surely it's better to have them bred by good breeders with healthy animals than backstreet breeders as in the case with Snowy's buns.
 
Bit of a sweeping statement! I am anti breeding and have pets- however both of mine are rescues- I have them because they needed a home. However I would never go to a breeder and would be happy if the practice of keeping pets died out.

I completely agree. There just arent enough competant owners in this world to cope with the ever growing quantity of animals WE (as humans) just keep producing. Until the law changes and we can put a stop to just ANYONE breeding pet animals, of every sort, the amout of animals PTS and cases of cruelty will just escalate. Even valuable pedigree dogs all have their own breed rescue and most of them are bursting at the seams too.:cry:
 
Bit of a sweeping statement! I am anti breeding and have pets- however both of mine are rescues- I have them because they needed a home. However I would never go to a breeder and would be happy if the practice of keeping pets died out.

But I think that's still supporting it - you could argue for eating meat by saying you'll only eat meat that someone's already bought and cooked and doesn't want for themselves. It would go to waste if you turned it down and accepting it would make no difference to the animal it was from, the trade has already been supported by them buying it, but it's about sticking to your morals.
 
I don't think anyone needs to start breeding in a campaign to show people how it's done :) As you say there are good breeders out there already if you look for them.

What's needed isn't more bunnies but people being guided to going to rescue or a good breeder instead of a bad breeder or petshop.

I haven't had rabbits from a breeder but I've brought rats from one and I would do the same again. The breeder I went to had 5+ generation pedigrees and could tell you at what age and of what the rats ancestors passed away from. She also had a waiting list in the double figures - but didn't breed more just to fill demand. There are hundreds of breeders but I picked that one cos that's the type I want to support not just what's conveniently close.

Tam
 
My local petshop owner told me the other day that she's going to put her mini lop male with a customer's mini lop female and sell the babies as then she 'knows where they come from'. I did try to advise that this was rather a haphazard way of breeding, who knows what problems will crop up but it fell on deaf ears.

I don't know the answer - am I the only one who feels it's a hopelessly desperate situation with rescues picking up the unwanted buns and the cycle begins again :(
 
I brought Anna from a breeder and he gave me a huge amount of advise and was very supportive. I think reputable breeders are the way to go. Pedigree rabbits tend to be selectively inbred meaning they can have associated health and behavioural problems. If the intention was to breed for the pet market rather than showing then the pressure to produce physical perfection would be gone and genetically stronger mixed breed rabbits could be bred.

Breeding is essential i think, otherwise all of our pet rabbits in the future will be products of unwanted litters between mis-sexed siblings. Intentional breeding would mean stronger healthier babies, as long as it is responsibly done.

Ivor is from a pet shop which is supplied by a very large rabbit farm which ive since found out does not have a very good reputation. However ive never had any health or behavioural problems with Ivor so I have no complaints about that but it makes me shudder to think about the conditions he was born in and that his family might still be :(
 
I'm totally against pet keeping - it's just another form of using animals. I got my rabbits because I felt appalled at the amount of rabbits in rescue and wanted to help in some small way. The pigs were a rescue from a breeder going out of business and I was determined that her 'great money-earning opportunity' on freeads wasn't going to lead to someone else just churning out helpless animals to an uncertain future.

I am 100% against breeding rabbits for any reason when there are 10s of thousands in rescues or dying in petshops/back gardens - It's not like there's a shortage of animals to look after if you want to do that for a hobby, so it could never be justified in my opinion.

The lady that bred my guinea pigs was a responsible breeder insofar as she chose her stock very carefully (they are all show stock) but she sold them to anyone who wanted one, not because she didn't care, but because when it comes to the stage where you have 10 babies to home urgently, you get less choosey, if not desperate to get rid.

If you consider that a rabbit or guinea pig lives at least 8 to 12 years, how can you possible know that it will have a secure home all that time? And if you can't guarantee that, how can you justify bringing a helpless animal into an uncertain future? Breeding is either a money-spinner or an ego trip - and animals have no say in it so they are victims to the desire to make money or have an ego trip. I think animals need to be protected, not exploited.
 
I'm not anti responsible breeders at all. I have had so many health problems with guinea pigs in the years I have been keeping them, which has caused me incredible upset. All my animals are rescues except my guinea pigs. Whilst I wouldn't be likely to have a rabbit from a breeder (due to the numbers in rescues), would never entirely rule it out.
 
but I thought moungral dogs were more healthy than pedigrees? :?

They are because pedigrees have a lot of breed specific problems. I think partly though that's a more recent thing. Dogs were breed healthier because working dogs wouldn't be kept if they weren't. Mongrals are crosses so they don't have the breed specific problems.

Same for cats, they were orginally breed for rat/mousing.

Pet bunnies have only been selectively bred much more recently, and only ever for looks or meat/fur production. Just about every pet breed that's involved making them look cute over health considerations. The jaw length/shape in wild bunnies is quite different which causes the teeth issues. That's a bunny-wide problem not particularly a breed specific one (though some worse than others). Crossing them doesn't help if you've got two bunnies with the same issue.

You generally need two dogs of the same breed to get a breed specific problem but you can pick any two bunnies and end up with teeth problems.

I guess maybe because there hasn't been enough selective breeding to fix problems to a specific breed yet?

Tam
 
Since seeing the awful conditions the breeder kept the rabbits in that Snowy rescued the other week I've been pondering on this question.

I'm not sure he was breeding for the pet trade, I got the impression he was breeding for meat markets? In such circumstances I wouldn't think that future health problems would even be a consideration, perhaps just the size of litter you could get from a doe.

I've heard horror stories about successful, prize-winning breeders of all different kinds of animals being prosecuted by the RSPCA. A breeder's standing within the breeding community has very little to do with the welfare of their animals.

A rather well-known ex-breeder wrote an article for a magazine on how to cull stock by gassing them with exhaust fumes. I'm not going to mention any names, but members of the RWA might be interested ;)
 
Horror stories or not, there are reputable breeders around who keep their animals in good conditions. eg. I know a guinea pig breeder near me who is incredibly responsible, and is happy to show people around her pigs, etc. It isn't always about reputation and what goes on behind closed doors.
 
The Brent bunnies (see Greenfields site, news 31/05/07) were bred by a BRC breeder and most had BRC rings. They are all healthy pedigrees, apart from the psychological damage and the fact they cower and flinch when you touch their necks (read into that what you will). This guy was responsible in that he didn't in-breed and they are beautiful examples of dutch rabbits. He was however an absolute :censored: who kept bunnies in foot by foot and a half cages for their whole lives with no time out, and sold his 'stock' to a meat market when he realised the rescues who had offered to help him when the council told him he needed to get rid of them weren't going to pay!

'Good' breeding is a lot more than not in-breeding, and there are so many bunnies looking for homes there is no way ANYONE can justify breeding rabbits at this point in time. Greenfields' waiting list is into 3-figures - if you are considering breeding for whatever reason, consider this first.
 
I got d'Artagnon from a breeder because I couldn't find a bun anywhere else. I also had to drive over two hours to get her! We don't have too many shelter bunnies around, sadly because I think a lot of folks set them "free" when they tire of them instead of taking them to a shelter. :evil:
This breeder was stellar. The does were in huge, roomy, clean cages full of hay, and each had a quiet place to spend time with her litter. There were outdoor runs, indoor play pens, and happy, healthy bunnies were all that could be found. They had been breeding for years and knew the longevity rates, dispositions, and show/pet qualities of each of their lines. The woman spent a long time with me, asking what I was getting the bun for, making sure I knew the nutritional requirements and everything else that I needed to know so that she felt good about me leaving with one of her babies. Of all the animals I have lived with over the years, I never had a pedigreed critter, and it makes me chuckle that I have this fancy certificate for my tiny bun that lists her distinguished lineage!
I appreciate the sentiment of eliminating the idea of "pets", but along with that would have to come either the neglect of or wholescale eradication of billions of animals that we have bred over the centuries to become dependent on us. This includes both pets and farm animals. Some are so dependent that they would simply die without us (dairy cows). Some would adapt to the wild and be fine (pigs, chickens). Some would be able to survive on their own, but in miserable conditions, like the large colonies of feral dogs and cats that already exist. We're in a catch-22, sadly; we have made ourselves the "masters" of the other animals, but we do such an utterly crappy job of it most of the time!
 
I don't think BRC and responsible necessarily equal the same thing. Certainly I wouldn't deem a breeder responsible because they were a member or indeed unresponsible if they weren't.

With rabbits there seems to be a massive divide between breeders & pet owners which means there isn't a sharing of information. It means that it's pretty difficult for a pet owner to track down a good breeders and get recommendations.

Tam
 
But I think that's still supporting it - you could argue for eating meat by saying you'll only eat meat that someone's already bought and cooked and doesn't want for themselves. It would go to waste if you turned it down and accepting it would make no difference to the animal it was from, the trade has already been supported by them buying it, but it's about sticking to your morals.

Maybe in your mind its the same Karly but not mine :roll: :lol: :lol:
 
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