Excess caecal poos/won't eat hay

Some of you may remember a rabbit I look after occasionally who won't eat hay when she's at home (does eat it here though)
She doesn't have teeth problems as far as I know (it's been checked at the owner's vets and mine couldn't see spurs when they took a quick look for me) though she does have problems with a blocked tearduct - not sure if the owner's had an x-ray done to check the roots :?
Anyway, I've managed to get the owners to feed her pellets rather than a cheapo mx, and she also has spring greens, carrots and curly kale.
I got a bit of a distraught call from the owner yesterday saying they'd just had their carpet professionally cleaned, only to come home the day after to find caecal poos all over the living room - and bun had laid in them too! Her hubby was very upset and obviously they need to do something about it.
For now I've suggested getting a puppy pen to confine her during the day as her indoor hutch is too small really (smaller than a 4' crate) but the issue is obviously diet related and needs to be sorted.
I know excess caecal poos are normally from too much protein and cutting down/out the pellets is recommended but what would you do with a bunny that doesn't eat hay? She does eat grass but being an indoor bun she only gets cuttings and doesn't have access all day.
Are there any veg that could be fed in a larger amount to help keep her gut going without them leaving down a big bowl of pellets? I didn't want to recommend increasing the spring greens or carrots because of them being gassy producing/sugary. I believe they've tried dried grass and she wouldn't eat it.
Does anyone have any experience/suggestions? She called just as dinner was being dished up so I didn't get to chat with her for ages but said I'd try to find out what I could as she was quite upset and worried the next call would be to ask me to take the bunny on myself (which I'm happy to do if it comes to that - but despite overspoiling it she does love it)
I remember reading on here a while ago about a fibre supplements vets were starting to stock - anyone got any more info on it?
I may also order a hay sample pack from The Hay Experts and some timothy hay blocks/pellets just to try other ways of getting hay/fibre into her but obviously don't want to spend loads with it not being my rabbit :?

This thread from the other day might help

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=92428

I have this problem with bif very very bad since oscar died..iam stupid for letting her have spring greens but she gets stres realted squishy pos and thengets gi stasis so petra said to keep her bowles moving with some wet greens.she does have rcket and stuff from time to time too.
i cut out all her food for a fortnight and gave her hay and a little greeens but im afraid i have to wach her like a hawk..she scoffs berties before heeven has time to sniff it!
Petra and rob said to give her an all hay diet for 3 weeks and fibrplex and bio lpais in her water as its better for some upsets than avi pro plus..
nothing ever helped then she had a dental by petra and she did both sides not just the bigger spurs side..they were so small she said they dont normally do them that small but some bunnies get affected by even small spurs..
touchwodd shes had no dentals since beginning of year and certainly didnt die of cancer like the other vet said she was!! she got her ceacum impacted eventually but its clear now.

but oh my the bits of rugs protecting the bare concrete is so smelly im scrubbing it daily..she seems do domost daytime tho!
im afraid it sounds like stress becki.dont worry she wil calm down but stress is an eveil thing it affects their health in somany diff ways.

i laways have a tube of fibrplex onhand for bif..shes tressed still cos theyre having the 28 day panacur after the ec scare with willow..and she panics liekmad..only till 28th to go.

willow when she got ehre did lots of them..its been many many weeks now and shes ok..odd one ort wo if shes eaten too much greens or dried herbs but shes fine healthy gut..pos for britain!
petra said sometimes highly strung or distressed buns never really get over it and the gut problems are a constant but not usually all day and night.
phewee when bertie first had his meds he did them.no joke when its a frenchie soft poo i tell ya!

I'd recommend cutting the pellets down gradually to see whether the hay consumption improves. They would need to keep a close eye on whether the bunny actually starts to eat or not, to avoid having a starved bunny. My 2 used to look at hay like it was poison till their pellets were cut down.

Getting her onto hay is going to be a pretty much impossible task to be honest I think :? I've been battling with this woman for a year or two over it now, even reduced her to tears when said bun was quite poorly during a stay at mine and I stressed the important of hay so much but she's still convinced that bun won't eat hay (despite her always tucking into it here)
I may order in some sample hays and things, suggest the lady brings bun back to me for a weekend and I'll do a strict bunny camp and find out what she'll eat and give the owner strict instructions on what she needs to feed bun and how important it is :?

Oh dear... perhaps they are putting the hay in the wrong places, or giving some not very nice hay? sounds like a bit of a battle, but perhaps the state of the carpet will influence things a bit.

I've suggested all sorts really, given them different hays to try (always had all the different types here because of having 3 dental buns I needed to encourage with yummy hays) etc. and the woman always comes back saying she doesn't eat them (when she's eaten them all of the weekend/week she's been with me)

Ben's mum said:

Getting her onto hay is going to be a pretty much impossible task to be honest I think :? I've been battling with this woman for a year or two over it now, even reduced her to tears when said bun was quite poorly during a stay at mine and I stressed the important of hay so much but she's still convinced that bun won't eat hay (despite her always tucking into it here)
I may order in some sample hays and things, suggest the lady brings bun back to me for a weekend and I'll do a strict bunny camp and find out what she'll eat and give the owner strict instructions on what she needs to feed bun and how important it is :?

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Do you know why the lady is so reluctant to feed her hay? I'm wondering as she was so upset over her carpet it's the mess that bothers her cos as we all know hay does get everywhere doesn't it! If the rabbit eats hay at yours but doesn't at home I think the problem sounds like it's the lady's not the rabbits and if the woman does not want c-poops ground into her carpet then she has to give the rabbit hay. If she won't do this then tbh I don't think she should have an indoor rabbit. I'm not houseproud at all but hay inside drove me insane and now the rabbits are all outside I feel much calmer and don't worry about the mess. Can the rabbit move outside?

kayjay said:

Do you know why the lady is so reluctant to feed her hay? I'm wondering as she was so upset over her carpet it's the mess that bothers her cos as we all know hay does get everywhere doesn't it! If the rabbit eats hay at yours but doesn't at home I think the problem sounds like it's the lady's not the rabbits and if the woman does not want c-poops ground into her carpet then she has to give the rabbit hay. If she won't do this then tbh I don't think she should have an indoor rabbit. I'm not houseproud at all but hay inside drove me insane and now the rabbits are all outside I feel much calmer and don't worry about the mess. Can the rabbit move outside?

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I know what you mean - I've had mine indoors due to them being ill and wanting to keep an eye on them, and the hay gets everywhere!!! :shock: I've got enough all over the place with having the pigs indoors.

I don't think it's a houseproud thing to be honest - who'd have an indoor rabbit and be houseproud? :lol: I know bun does the odd wee on the sofa etc but she's very much the baby to the owner, but obviously squishy caecotrophs all over a brand new professionally cleaned carpet is a bit of an annoying thing! She does have an indoor hutch so hay could be placed in there if the mess is an issue but the owner is adament that the bun just refuses to eat hay at home :?

When I got Teddy his bum was a mess and he's already survived fly strike once. His previous owner used to feed him titbits like chocolate flapjack and apple and lettuce and he was on a mix and although he had hay he didn't eat it. I've gradually phased in Science selective, and hay and now he gets spring greens, which he loves. And that's it. And his poo is back to normal with no C-poops squashed into his hutch or bottom. Is the owner giving her rabbit treats that are perhaps inappropriate?

She could try a probiotic in her water to try and improve the state of her gut.

just a suggestion but would the lady change her carpet for laminate flooring? that way the hay wouldn't be a problem and would be easier to keep clean whether it's hay or sticky poo........
all my rabbits were kept indoors when i first got them before their palaces were built in the garden and none of them had a problem with the laminate floor plus it was easy to keep clean

I think it's going to be a case of finding out where she's putting the hay then. :?

kayjay said:

When I got Teddy his bum was a mess and he's already survived fly strike once. His previous owner used to feed him titbits like chocolate flapjack and apple and lettuce and he was on a mix and although he had hay he didn't eat it. I've gradually phased in Science selective, and hay and now he gets spring greens, which he loves. And that's it. And his poo is back to normal with no C-poops squashed into his hutch or bottom. Is the owner giving her rabbit treats that are perhaps inappropriate?

She could try a probiotic in her water to try and improve the state of her gut.

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She's cut down the treats a lot (apparently anyway) - bun used to come with me with about 5 double packs of treat sticks, 2 boxes of yoghurt drops, 2 packs of biscuit treats, etc for a weekend! Now I just get a pack or two of biscuit treats (which I sometimes give with Infacol if she seems a bit off colour - can't syringefeed her anything at all!)
I've given the owner a hayrack, suggested putting the hay in half of a litter tray and topping it up throughout the day so it's fresh, suggested one of the hay balls, putting hay in toilet roll tubes, etc. :?

It sounds like you're doing everything you can for this rabbit, whether the owner listens is another matter. She obviously loves the bunny and maybe cos of the poops she'll listen a bit more. Good luck, sounds like you need it :lol:

Yeah, just wish there was more I could do. I'll give her a call with the info I've got and let her know that the bun's always welcome here - whether it's for a break to let her husband calm down or permanently

how about hay cubes. I think I saw some at bunny basics. If she's really not going to feed it hay because of the mess they might be better than nothing.

You can get hay/grass pellets too (from Bunny Basics).

ecudc said:

how about hay cubes. I think I saw some at bunny basics. If she's really not going to feed it hay because of the mess they might be better than nothing.

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Like I've said, I don't think it's a case of her not feeding hay because of the mess. Bun wasn't really too interested in hay cubes or pellets when I tried her with them here though

Don't know if its been suggested or not, but its impossible to tell just by looking at a bun's teeth if they are overgrown, the only way to tell is under GA. So is it possible she finds it genuinely sore to eat hay? That would also explain the runny eye, as eyes and teeth are effected by one another, so I'd deffo get her checked out just to be sure.

I'd also go over to the woman's house and bring hay and show her that the rabbit does eat hay and unless she starts feeding it she'll have a multitude of problems with the poor bun. Feeding just pellets is one way of getting molar spurs, obesity and I'd also guess the extra protein would be hard on the kidneys

Poor bun, hope you get it all sorted