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Alice
02-05-2007, 05:04 AM
Hi,

Was in a store at weekend buying some feed for the bunsters and they had a product called Verm X displayed that is supposed to be a parasite control that you feed for your buns.

Looks like it is basically a wormer, but wondered if anyone knew more about it and whether it would protect from EC. It seems to be something that you can feed daily but surely you wouldn't want to be giving them this everyday would you?

Looked on their website but doesn't really tell you much.

Any one have any knowledge of this product.

Thanks

Caz
02-05-2007, 10:44 PM
Search function is disabled but I posted about this a few weeks ago in Rabbit health - I came across it on a chicken site - it is highly recommended for chickens.

It is a monthly thing you give a few of the wormer pellets as treats along with their normal food.

Caz

Found it: http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=44263

BinkyBun
02-05-2007, 11:05 PM
posted about this the other day as I found it on a site and it does look good the fact its natural and easier to get the rabbit to eat it -

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=45647

Caz have you used it? I'm thinking about getting it but really want to know peoples feedback that have used it.

abbymarysmokey
02-05-2007, 11:14 PM
I know that some so-called 'natural' parasite control can be dangerous for rabbits, if they work on the principle of having tiny sharp particles which are ingested by the parasites (sorry about the cr*p non-scientific language :lol: )

Don't know how this product Verm-X works, but it might be worth finding out. :?:

Caz
02-05-2007, 11:43 PM
I don't think it contains diatomaceous earth, which is fine for chickens to eat and humans - AFAIK diatomaceous earth doesn't harm commensal bacteria so don't see how it would hurt rabbits - I have used it it my rabbit and GP houses a couple of years ago when I had a bad mite outbreak to stop them getting reinfected after they were treated - I didn't lose any during that time.

Diatomaceous earth actually works as it causes scratches in the outer layer of creatures with exoskeletons (e.g. mites, ants etc) this means they can't regulate their water loss and effectively dessicate to death - it is made from the hard almost fossilised skeletons of diatoms (very small sea creatures) and is 100% natural and in effect organic as a method of pest control - the particles are so small they don't harm larger organisms.

I have the chicken version it contains various extracts from plants with natural anti-parasitic/helmintic properties but I bought the liquid version that goes in their water as it worked out cheaper than the pellets.

I didn't get the rabbit wormer as I sort of believe in if it ain't broke don't fix it and have had so much trouble with rabbits over the past year that I am nervous to do anything new incase they all die on me.

Personally if I was going to worm regularily I would use this not the Panacur 9 day paste as if a real Ec outbreak occurred and you had been using the Panacur the Ec may well be a resistant strain or have built up resistance through prolonged contact so be useless in curing an active infection! Like the overuse of antibiotics leading to resistant strains like MRSA.

Caz

abbymarysmokey
03-05-2007, 03:25 AM
Just done a quick search on Etherbun, and apparently diatomaceous earth should not be used for rabbits...has been linked to internal bleeding if used over a period of time. :shock:

Any idea how the Verm-X stuff does work then :?:

Caz
03-05-2007, 10:31 AM
Thyme naturally secretes certain chemicals that deter/even damage worms, originally this would have been a defence against nematode predators of the plant but humans have found it works against other nematodes as well such as those that can infect humans.

So if enough different types of these plants were purified and ingested they would help deter worms in rabbits etc. These ideas form the basis of a lot of medicines in use today - we have extracted the active ingrediant, purified it and used it in medications.

This is the more natural, herbal way, which does mean you may need slightly higher doses to get complete clearance compared to standard treatments but as a natural deterrant it probably works pretty well to keep overall parasite levels low - I wouldn't recommend it as a treatment after confirmed infestation though - I would use a more conventional treatment personally.

Caz

abbymarysmokey
03-05-2007, 09:15 PM
Thyme doesn't get rid of worms in rabbits...IMO that is a complete myth.

Caz
03-05-2007, 10:30 PM
Maybe not Thyme (I didn't have time to check all the references) but there are plants that have a moderate effect on parasite load (anti-helmintic):

Link (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16725262&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum)
Link 2 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16388690&query_hl=17&itool=pubmed_docsum)
Link 3 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14729169&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)
Link 4 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=14519324)

In combination they could have a "biologically significant effect".

Any reduction could help the natural immune response keep parasite levels low, as I stated before I wouldn't use it as a treatment for active infection but would use it instead of Panacur 9 day for general worming.

Link 5 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17067055&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum) - Thyme oil does keep mosquitoes at bay for short periods and has anti-bacterial properties Link 6 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17037257&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum), as well as anti-fungal properties Link 7 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17005785&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum) .

So extracts from plants do have anti-parasitic properties!

As I stated in the other thread they do have data on samples from horse stools - perhaps you could request to see it.

Caz